Hello T,a client of mine asked me what activate more the lats
pull up(more then shoulder width grip) or chin up(shoulder width or less)
I answer him that in my opinion it impossible to know because if you do beyond shoulder width the movement on the shoulder is adduction and the main muscle is the Latissimus dorsi and if you do shoulder width or less you have shoulder extension and the main muscle here is also the Latissimus dorsi.
Also if the hand is supinated and your shoulder is in external rotation the lats in their stronger position(and also the biceps).
Maybe there is an EMG research on types of pull-ups and chin-ups? and what do you think about this issue?
[quote]shestak wrote:
Hello T,a client of mine asked me what activate more the lats
pull up(more then shoulder width grip) or chin up(shoulder width or less)
I answer him that in my opinion it impossible to know because if you do beyond shoulder width the movement on the shoulder is adduction and the main muscle is the Latissimus dorsi and if you do shoulder width or less you have shoulder extension and the main muscle here is also the Latissimus dorsi.
Also if the hand is supinated and your shoulder is in external rotation the lats in their stronger position(and also the biceps).
Maybe there is an EMG research on types of pull-ups and chin-ups? and what do you think about this issue?
my advice is to use a neutral grip if you can, with your arms slightly in front of you and hands facing you as in a neutral grip this will hit your lats very hard. yes how you grip the bar is important but how it’s performed is just as important if not a tad bit more. Leaning slightly back on a chinup will hit the lats harder than if you were to stay straight up and down. A La. Rack chins. Another example of how hard a neutral grip will hit your lats harder than an overhand or underhand grip is rope straight arm pulldowns… Try not to over-analyze this haha I did the same thing and it led me nowhere fast. Use multiple grips on multiple sets your lats teres major/minor rhomboids and other muscles will get hit just as well
[quote]JHEIMBAUGH wrote:
my advice is to use a neutral grip if you can, with your arms slightly in front of you [/quote]
^This. While you don’t necessarily need to use a neutral grip (even though I actually do prefer it myself), the real trick is remaining upright, not leaning all the way back like some trainers do to pull more weight, and keeping your elbows in front of your torso.
Another trick is to stop when the bar (your hands) in front of your chin, when you have the full stress on your lats. When you go further, despite some articles talking about ‘peak contractions’, your biceps join in and your lats actually do less work.
In my experience: done pull ups from straight bars, parallel bars, corner o two bars joined at a right angle, rings, a rope, various grips, etc and if there is any difference it’s minimal. If your elbows are pulling down, the lats are contractinf
I always struggled with lats, could never learn. My mentor, so to speak, is obsessed with them.
I’d say if you can learn to recruit your lats, you can grow them using just about any variation of chins or pulldowns. Or seated cable rows, if you use the close grip handle.
Chins…making sure to stay vertical and not leaning back like some people may suggest to make them more hardcore (aka…the sternum ups). Elbows close to the body more lats, elbows away more rhoms, traps and rear delts IMO.
Also you kind of have to initiate the movement with your back…rather than your bi’s. Kind hard to describe but imagine trying to pull yourself up without actual elbow flexion. This partial movement taught me how to engage my lats better.
[quote]shestak wrote:
Maybe there is an EMG research on types of pull-ups and chin-ups?[/quote]
Yes, lat pulldown to sternum with a narrow underhand grip while leaning back slightly has been shown to be superior (but not by much) for lat activation (EMG).
[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
I always struggled with lats, could never learn. My mentor, so to speak, is obsessed with them.[/quote]
Me too until recently. Not entirely sure why it happened (best guess is that they grew a bit) but damn it is fun having that MM connection all of a sudden. Training the lats now is actually fun.
I would add that it’s important to “set the shoulders back” so to speak when doing chins/pull-ups in order to fully activate the lats so it’s not a heavy bicep movement. This is tough to describe and it takes alot of time fooling around with. And it also decreases your numbers… BUT once you do them, the movement feels almost like a different exercise all together.
Changing position of the wrist has an influence on the back building,
but It’s mainly about the grip width.
Narrowest grip (when hands are connected) - attacking lower part of lats.
Widening grip causes shift of maximal tension to upper portions.
Widest grip attacks mostly teres major and very little of lats.
The most overall attack is on the grip when you’re lifiting the most weight with, so it will be probably a grip slighty narrower than shoulders width (if you have good strength balance in the body) or with the narrowest grip (but still the lat lower portion is attacked mostly).
Of course you will lift more weight with neutral grip, then with underhand and then with pronated - so I recommend using neutral grip if you don’t want arms to be limiting factor.
gironda sternum chin ups/pull ups are great - and build the region of lats that the other variations don’t.
But by “gironda sternum” I mean vertical pull, like on normal pull ups, and only when chest touches the bar it’s time to start leaning back, using VERY hard squeeze of shoulder blades - now the forces acting on back are inverted and retraction has to be more active than depression which is now the base of a lever.
But it is really hard to do that, you must lift probably about half of your bodyweight on the belt with normal pull ups.
