Don Fry certainly exhibits some psychopathic traits
[quote]slimjim wrote:
you guys realize he loves this attention, right? he doesnt really have a point so much as a need for people to interact with him[/quote]
ok, so let’s try to make this a conversation for grown ups, shall we now? “Psychopaths” no longer exist – they are officially known as having anti-social personality disorder. As at least one poster pointed out, having several of these traits is not the same as suffering from the PD itself. Are there martial artists with this PD? Yes. There are also some that have the other major PDs, such as Borderline, Histrionic, Narcissistic and Schizotypal. Do these characterize athletes in general or combat athletes in particular?
----->> NO <<-----
What I see is a very ideologically-driven assumption that runs roughly as follows. Violence is bad. Combat sports are violent (yes they are, but seldom is there actual violence in them – think about it). A stereotype is that mentally ill people are violent, therefore it must mean that combat athletes are mentally ill. QED The OP was asking us to help do the mundane task of verifying this. Gosh guys, wasn’t that simple?
As part of self defense training, I discuss various PDs and how to spot them, and what they do. These are contrasted with actual mental illnesses (such as schizophrenia or being developmentally disabled). In a nutshell, mentally ill people try very hard to be normal. People with PDs try to act crazy as a manipulative strategy. Someone who has, say, histrionic PD will basically have a total emotional meltdown at the drop of a hat because s/he knows that most people will just assent to their requests rather than deal with all the drama. Are there competitive athletes that act this way when there is a referee call against them? You bet, but it’s not nearly as sexy as being a criminal (that was with tongue in cheek – people who have never dealt with criminal find them compelling but the reality is a heck of a lot different), so it didn’t make the OP’s short list.
My take: Sure there are all type of people everywhere. Deal with it. What about all the nice hobbyist combat athletes? They are by far the majority and the fact is that very few get to be pros. Class character assassination in a nasty thing but is very empowering…
– jj
Edit: People with PDs as well as mentally ill people as well as plain old folks might become violent. This is because in many cases violence is an effective, short-term means of achieving a goal. Much as we hate to think so, people are violent mostly because it has worked in the past for them and there are no statistics to the best of my knowledge that people who are, say, mentally, are any more violent than the rest of the general population.
[quote]Sveti Ante wrote:
[quote]rundymc wrote:
Hahah, check out the Anderson Silva one. The K-9 found 23 KILOS of cocaine in his car. Nice one Andy.
Seriously though, like any vocation (Army, marines, police, firemen) the people who pick “cage fighter” as a job probably share many characteristics, or sets of characteristics. On that point I agree with the OP. What I do not agree with is linking this to motherfucking psychopathy.
I don’t consider myself an unstable person. I’m a boring engineering student without much of a social life, who lifts weights and does BJJ. However, come ME squat day, I put my headphones on, put the loudest, angriest music I can find on my MP3 player, and bring out some real scary personal demons to help me lift the weight.
I imagine a good portion of the people on these boards do the same. Is this really special? Is developing a masochistic taste for training really that extraordinary? Should I get my melon checked out?[/quote]
1 % of population is made of psychopaths (experts data).
They are not only serial killers,mad men,etc. They are people with low empathy,egocentric,narcistic individuals,thrill-seekers,greed for power & money,they break the law and social rules,are bullies and substance abusers,etc.
Most psychopaths are not even criminals in the classical sense. [/quote]
My point is, everyone will at some point exhibit some of the characteristics you are describing. Hell, I’m generally narcissistic myself, am a thrill-seeker, break social norms, and lack empathy.
Either way, you’re looking at one-off reports of fighters getting into trouble, as well as highlights and trying to make the case that fighters have a higher level of psychopathic characteristics. That’s not science, it’s… nothing. I could probably do the same with most if not all demographics: church-goers, professors, cab-drivers, pilots.
Sorry, like a poster above me pointed out, anecdotal evidence /= data.
[quote]rundymc wrote:
[quote]Sveti Ante wrote:
[quote]rundymc wrote:
Hahah, check out the Anderson Silva one. The K-9 found 23 KILOS of cocaine in his car. Nice one Andy.
Seriously though, like any vocation (Army, marines, police, firemen) the people who pick “cage fighter” as a job probably share many characteristics, or sets of characteristics. On that point I agree with the OP. What I do not agree with is linking this to motherfucking psychopathy.
I don’t consider myself an unstable person. I’m a boring engineering student without much of a social life, who lifts weights and does BJJ. However, come ME squat day, I put my headphones on, put the loudest, angriest music I can find on my MP3 player, and bring out some real scary personal demons to help me lift the weight.
I imagine a good portion of the people on these boards do the same. Is this really special? Is developing a masochistic taste for training really that extraordinary? Should I get my melon checked out?[/quote]
1 % of population is made of psychopaths (experts data).
They are not only serial killers,mad men,etc. They are people with low empathy,egocentric,narcistic individuals,thrill-seekers,greed for power & money,they break the law and social rules,are bullies and substance abusers,etc.
Most psychopaths are not even criminals in the classical sense. [/quote]
My point is, everyone will at some point exhibit some of the characteristics you are describing. Hell, I’m generally narcissistic myself, am a thrill-seeker, break social norms, and lack empathy.
Either way, you’re looking at one-off reports of fighters getting into trouble, as well as highlights and trying to make the case that fighters have a higher level of psychopathic characteristics. That’s not science, it’s… nothing. I could probably do the same with most if not all demographics: church-goers, professors, cab-drivers, pilots.
Sorry, like a poster above me pointed out, anecdotal evidence /= data.
[/quote]
We are just having discussion here.Until psychiatrics trained in diagnosing psychopathy using standard procedure (Psychopathy Checklist-Revised) test,say,top 100 fighters in UFC,we wont know for sure.
I dont claim anything.I just posted a question I happen to think its legitimate.
Its not just aimed at athletes,but people who fight in general=streetfighters,bouncers,bare-knuckle boxers,the whole lot.
There is something innate among individuals that others recognize as fighters.
Yes,most of them come form rough places,but they are found everywhere.
Now,personality of someone who fight,seek fight,or is driven to fight is a little bit different than normal ,average people.
I feel like this guy is in the middle of taking a class or read some random article and has suddenly become a closet phyc… +1 on the block list
[quote]Sveti Ante wrote:
[quote]rundymc wrote:
[quote]Sveti Ante wrote:
[quote]rundymc wrote:
Hahah, check out the Anderson Silva one. The K-9 found 23 KILOS of cocaine in his car. Nice one Andy.
Seriously though, like any vocation (Army, marines, police, firemen) the people who pick “cage fighter” as a job probably share many characteristics, or sets of characteristics. On that point I agree with the OP. What I do not agree with is linking this to motherfucking psychopathy.
I don’t consider myself an unstable person. I’m a boring engineering student without much of a social life, who lifts weights and does BJJ. However, come ME squat day, I put my headphones on, put the loudest, angriest music I can find on my MP3 player, and bring out some real scary personal demons to help me lift the weight.
I imagine a good portion of the people on these boards do the same. Is this really special? Is developing a masochistic taste for training really that extraordinary? Should I get my melon checked out?[/quote]
1 % of population is made of psychopaths (experts data).
They are not only serial killers,mad men,etc. They are people with low empathy,egocentric,narcistic individuals,thrill-seekers,greed for power & money,they break the law and social rules,are bullies and substance abusers,etc.
Most psychopaths are not even criminals in the classical sense. [/quote]
My point is, everyone will at some point exhibit some of the characteristics you are describing. Hell, I’m generally narcissistic myself, am a thrill-seeker, break social norms, and lack empathy.
Either way, you’re looking at one-off reports of fighters getting into trouble, as well as highlights and trying to make the case that fighters have a higher level of psychopathic characteristics. That’s not science, it’s… nothing. I could probably do the same with most if not all demographics: church-goers, professors, cab-drivers, pilots.
Sorry, like a poster above me pointed out, anecdotal evidence /= data.
[/quote]
We are just having discussion here.Until psychiatrics trained in diagnosing psychopathy using standard procedure (Psychopathy Checklist-Revised) test,say,top 100 fighters in UFC,we wont know for sure.
I dont claim anything.I just posted a question I happen to think its legitimate.
Its not just aimed at athletes,but people who fight in general=streetfighters,bouncers,bare-knuckle boxers,the whole lot.
There is something innate among individuals that others recognize as fighters.
Yes,most of them come form rough places,but they are found everywhere.
Now,personality of someone who fight,seek fight,or is driven to fight is a little bit different than normal ,average people.
[/quote]
Actually, you are claiming something: That MMA fighters have psychopathic traits. That is what’s being discussed.
Also, there is a HUGE difference between an MMA fighter, a boxer, K1 fighter etc. and a dude that seeks violence outside the ring/cage. It is absolutely not the same thing (as I’m sure you know), and share’s few parallels. That doesn’t mean violent people do not seek it in the cage, it means not all people who fight in a cage are violent (ie, psychopaths).
I think the differences in our thinking are the result of you not making that distinction, that MMA is a sport, like boxing or Kickboxing, and not a ‘fight’. Everyone who competed in UFC 1 would have to be a little crazy (ball hits, hair pulling), everyone who competed in UFC 120? Not so much. Boxing is the same. You are going to get more tough sons of bitches in combat sports (hell contact sports in general, look at NFL, rugby), but that doesn’t you’re going to get more ‘psychopathic traits’.
I really don’t understand why you wanted to start a flame war but whatever.
Anyways, I don’t understand about having an underlying aggressive tendencies and the likened character traits is abnormal. In fact, the unwillingness to voice ones mind, to hunt and compete, and a desire to be sedentary, ect is highly abnormal. If we are to be a predatory species why is it then we reject the possibility of possession of these traits being a negative thing? I contend that if one claims to not have them they are (1) lying (2) are a genetic abnormality.
Now I do believe in the concept of an emphatic civilization and that general harmful behaviors are often learned (such as criminal behavior in the strictest sense). I also reject that the 17th century concept is that all humans are primarily greedy and violent and that our decisions are driven by these base emotions. However we are failing in existing by rejecting ourselves and our roots.
Also I will contend that the rejection of such traits as being a component in the modern psyche as being a reason for the current (arguable) down trend in society. No longer do humans (especially in the West but increasingly globally) choose to maintain nuclear families, choose to be active ect, but live for the pleasures and gluttony of life. This corresponds with the 1970s hippie-era and increasingly became a downhill slide.
Now in a society in which assertive and even aggressive behavior this would not be the case to such traumatic extent it is in normal society. I point toward military culture, particularly the United States Marine Corps as an example. In my subculture of society, it is loathsome to be fat. Period. Is this a rejection of a particular human being as being subhuman? No it is a rejection of a lifestyle that peruses pleasure at the expense of reason and in opposition of a species with a predatory background. Being true to yourself goes far beyond what your desires are but what your species and self needs to be.
As for the random streetfights many love to point to- in fact they are rare. All the fights I have been in is because some gangbanger decided to get drunk and find the nearest group of Marines, because they know we wont cower to thuggery.
Finally if you notice as society has become decidedly more soft we also have seen a backlash rise in murder rates in the West. Back in the 19th Century, people would hunt you down if you killed someone on the streets of Tombstone for money. People that may not have even known the victim, but because justice had to be served. That comes from a predatory instinct, but also one that supports controlled-aggression and tribal-like inclusion of those who we value.
So I will state that if those traits in of themselves are hallmarks of anti-social behavior we need to reevaluate our definitions. But I know for a fact that before someone could be diagnosed with anti-social tenancies it requires far more than a yes or no for character traits. Therefore any attempt to even state a general category of personality on any individual professional fighter is an irresponsible one.
“Generalities are not the proof of strength but the insufficiency of the human intellect” -Thomas Aquanis
[quote]rundymc wrote:
[quote]Sveti Ante wrote:
[quote]rundymc wrote:
[quote]Sveti Ante wrote:
[quote]rundymc wrote:
Hahah, check out the Anderson Silva one. The K-9 found 23 KILOS of cocaine in his car. Nice one Andy.
Seriously though, like any vocation (Army, marines, police, firemen) the people who pick “cage fighter” as a job probably share many characteristics, or sets of characteristics. On that point I agree with the OP. What I do not agree with is linking this to motherfucking psychopathy.
I don’t consider myself an unstable person. I’m a boring engineering student without much of a social life, who lifts weights and does BJJ. However, come ME squat day, I put my headphones on, put the loudest, angriest music I can find on my MP3 player, and bring out some real scary personal demons to help me lift the weight.
I imagine a good portion of the people on these boards do the same. Is this really special? Is developing a masochistic taste for training really that extraordinary? Should I get my melon checked out?[/quote]
1 % of population is made of psychopaths (experts data).
They are not only serial killers,mad men,etc. They are people with low empathy,egocentric,narcistic individuals,thrill-seekers,greed for power & money,they break the law and social rules,are bullies and substance abusers,etc.
Most psychopaths are not even criminals in the classical sense. [/quote]
My point is, everyone will at some point exhibit some of the characteristics you are describing. Hell, I’m generally narcissistic myself, am a thrill-seeker, break social norms, and lack empathy.
Either way, you’re looking at one-off reports of fighters getting into trouble, as well as highlights and trying to make the case that fighters have a higher level of psychopathic characteristics. That’s not science, it’s… nothing. I could probably do the same with most if not all demographics: church-goers, professors, cab-drivers, pilots.
Sorry, like a poster above me pointed out, anecdotal evidence /= data.
[/quote]
We are just having discussion here.Until psychiatrics trained in diagnosing psychopathy using standard procedure (Psychopathy Checklist-Revised) test,say,top 100 fighters in UFC,we wont know for sure.
I dont claim anything.I just posted a question I happen to think its legitimate.
Its not just aimed at athletes,but people who fight in general=streetfighters,bouncers,bare-knuckle boxers,the whole lot.
There is something innate among individuals that others recognize as fighters.
Yes,most of them come form rough places,but they are found everywhere.
Now,personality of someone who fight,seek fight,or is driven to fight is a little bit different than normal ,average people.
[/quote]
Actually, you are claiming something: That MMA fighters have psychopathic traits. That is what’s being discussed.
Also, there is a HUGE difference between an MMA fighter, a boxer, K1 fighter etc. and a dude that seeks violence outside the ring/cage. It is absolutely not the same thing (as I’m sure you know), and share’s few parallels. That doesn’t mean violent people do not seek it in the cage, it means not all people who fight in a cage are violent (ie, psychopaths).
I think the differences in our thinking are the result of you not making that distinction, that MMA is a sport, like boxing or Kickboxing, and not a ‘fight’. Everyone who competed in UFC 1 would have to be a little crazy (ball hits, hair pulling), everyone who competed in UFC 120? Not so much. Boxing is the same. You are going to get more tough sons of bitches in combat sports (hell contact sports in general, look at NFL, rugby), but that doesn’t you’re going to get more ‘psychopathic traits’.[/quote]
Read my first post carefully.
[quote]Ski_USMC wrote:
I really don’t understand why you wanted to start a flame war but whatever.
Anyways, I don’t understand about having an underlying aggressive tendencies and the likened character traits is abnormal. In fact, the unwillingness to voice ones mind, to hunt and compete, and a desire to be sedentary, ect is highly abnormal. If we are to be a predatory species why is it then we reject the possibility of possession of these traits being a negative thing? I contend that if one claims to not have them they are (1) lying (2) are a genetic abnormality.
Now I do believe in the concept of an emphatic civilization and that general harmful behaviors are often learned (such as criminal behavior in the strictest sense). I also reject that the 17th century concept is that all humans are primarily greedy and violent and that our decisions are driven by these base emotions. However we are failing in existing by rejecting ourselves and our roots.
Also I will contend that the rejection of such traits as being a component in the modern psyche as being a reason for the current (arguable) down trend in society. No longer do humans (especially in the West but increasingly globally) choose to maintain nuclear families, choose to be active ect, but live for the pleasures and gluttony of life. This corresponds with the 1970s hippie-era and increasingly became a downhill slide.
Now in a society in which assertive and even aggressive behavior this would not be the case to such traumatic extent it is in normal society. I point toward military culture, particularly the United States Marine Corps as an example. In my subculture of society, it is loathsome to be fat. Period. Is this a rejection of a particular human being as being subhuman? No it is a rejection of a lifestyle that peruses pleasure at the expense of reason and in opposition of a species with a predatory background. Being true to yourself goes far beyond what your desires are but what your species and self needs to be.
As for the random streetfights many love to point to- in fact they are rare. All the fights I have been in is because some gangbanger decided to get drunk and find the nearest group of Marines, because they know we wont cower to thuggery.
Finally if you notice as society has become decidedly more soft we also have seen a backlash rise in murder rates in the West. Back in the 19th Century, people would hunt you down if you killed someone on the streets of Tombstone for money. People that may not have even known the victim, but because justice had to be served. That comes from a predatory instinct, but also one that supports controlled-aggression and tribal-like inclusion of those who we value.
So I will state that if those traits in of themselves are hallmarks of anti-social behavior we need to reevaluate our definitions. But I know for a fact that before someone could be diagnosed with anti-social tenancies it requires far more than a yes or no for character traits. Therefore any attempt to even state a general category of personality on any individual professional fighter is an irresponsible one.
“Generalities are not the proof of strength but the insufficiency of the human intellect” -Thomas Aquanis[/quote]
You just missed my point and went on a rant.
Every individual is different.
What is it in personalties of fighters that make them different than average Joe?
There is 1 % of population that is psychopathic.By dafault,they would be naturally driven to combat sport.
They are,by nature,thrill-seekers,they tend to be reckless and sadistic.They like to dominate and win at all costs and would enjoy respect that comes with being a fighter.They have high pain tolerance,trauma tolerance.
There are many characteristic of psychopaths that would be bebeficial to aspairing fighter,so its logical to assume they would flourish in combat sports.
[quote]Sveti Ante wrote:
[quote]rundymc wrote:
[quote]Sveti Ante wrote:
[quote]rundymc wrote:
[quote]Sveti Ante wrote:
[quote]rundymc wrote:
Hahah, check out the Anderson Silva one. The K-9 found 23 KILOS of cocaine in his car. Nice one Andy.
Seriously though, like any vocation (Army, marines, police, firemen) the people who pick “cage fighter” as a job probably share many characteristics, or sets of characteristics. On that point I agree with the OP. What I do not agree with is linking this to motherfucking psychopathy.
I don’t consider myself an unstable person. I’m a boring engineering student without much of a social life, who lifts weights and does BJJ. However, come ME squat day, I put my headphones on, put the loudest, angriest music I can find on my MP3 player, and bring out some real scary personal demons to help me lift the weight.
I imagine a good portion of the people on these boards do the same. Is this really special? Is developing a masochistic taste for training really that extraordinary? Should I get my melon checked out?[/quote]
1 % of population is made of psychopaths (experts data).
They are not only serial killers,mad men,etc. They are people with low empathy,egocentric,narcistic individuals,thrill-seekers,greed for power & money,they break the law and social rules,are bullies and substance abusers,etc.
Most psychopaths are not even criminals in the classical sense. [/quote]
My point is, everyone will at some point exhibit some of the characteristics you are describing. Hell, I’m generally narcissistic myself, am a thrill-seeker, break social norms, and lack empathy.
Either way, you’re looking at one-off reports of fighters getting into trouble, as well as highlights and trying to make the case that fighters have a higher level of psychopathic characteristics. That’s not science, it’s… nothing. I could probably do the same with most if not all demographics: church-goers, professors, cab-drivers, pilots.
Sorry, like a poster above me pointed out, anecdotal evidence /= data.
[/quote]
We are just having discussion here.Until psychiatrics trained in diagnosing psychopathy using standard procedure (Psychopathy Checklist-Revised) test,say,top 100 fighters in UFC,we wont know for sure.
I dont claim anything.I just posted a question I happen to think its legitimate.
Its not just aimed at athletes,but people who fight in general=streetfighters,bouncers,bare-knuckle boxers,the whole lot.
There is something innate among individuals that others recognize as fighters.
Yes,most of them come form rough places,but they are found everywhere.
Now,personality of someone who fight,seek fight,or is driven to fight is a little bit different than normal ,average people.
[/quote]
Actually, you are claiming something: That MMA fighters have psychopathic traits. That is what’s being discussed.
Also, there is a HUGE difference between an MMA fighter, a boxer, K1 fighter etc. and a dude that seeks violence outside the ring/cage. It is absolutely not the same thing (as I’m sure you know), and share’s few parallels. That doesn’t mean violent people do not seek it in the cage, it means not all people who fight in a cage are violent (ie, psychopaths).
I think the differences in our thinking are the result of you not making that distinction, that MMA is a sport, like boxing or Kickboxing, and not a ‘fight’. Everyone who competed in UFC 1 would have to be a little crazy (ball hits, hair pulling), everyone who competed in UFC 120? Not so much. Boxing is the same. You are going to get more tough sons of bitches in combat sports (hell contact sports in general, look at NFL, rugby), but that doesn’t you’re going to get more ‘psychopathic traits’.[/quote]
Read my first post carefully.[/quote]
Read the rest of your posts carefully.
[quote]Sveti Ante wrote:
Do you think successfull/elite MMA/street fighters possess a heavy dose of psychopathy?
Psychopathic features
-aggressive narcissism
-egocentricity,selfishness
-manipulativeness,cunning
-pathological lying
-calloussnes,lack of empathy
-irresponsibility
-lack of remorse/guilt
-superficial charm,glib
-grandiose sese of self worth
-need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
-poor behavioural control
-impulsiveness
-early behavioural problems
-many short-term relationships
-criminal versatility
-juvenal deliquency
-promiscous sexual behaviour
-parasitic lifestyle
[/quote]
Sounds like me on a bad day…
Ive met Don Frye, hes a really funny guy and laid back in person. Not a psychopath. Would I want to fight him, hell no.
Ive met, fought and sparred numerous champions from a variety of disciplines. Most are pretty cool. I fought a kid who won the US open and will probably make it the olympics. Nicest kid ever.
My sparring partner in boxing is a 12-0 lightweight prospect that will be on ESPN soon. He graduated with honors from a local college here. Super humble kid. Ive met some other pro boxers from my area, some have attitude issues, others still that grew up in the “ghetto” are cool as fuck.
My experience with true champions across all disciplines shows similar traits, confidence, hard work, and for the most part humility. My opponent fully understands I intend on knocking them out if given the opportunity, and they intend the same. Its all part of the game.
Why dont you go do this experiment yourself
You do realize the anderson silva one was posted april 1st, right?
Why are you guys arguing with this very obvious troll? It’s Balbos, the same fucktard that’s trolled here for years.
DON’T BOTHER
word son- this is necroposting + trolling.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Why are you guys arguing with this very obvious troll? It’s Balbos, the same fucktard that’s trolled here for years.
DON’T BOTHER[/quote]
???BALBOS FROM CROATIA!!! ARRRRRRRGGGH! when did he get back? I love that guy! hahaha! some of his threads were pure gold!
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Why are you guys arguing with this very obvious troll? It’s Balbos, the same fucktard that’s trolled here for years.
DON’T BOTHER[/quote]
Get that anger out,son ;))) you were abused as a child,right? thats why you have to act like a tough-keyboard warrior :)))))
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Why are you guys arguing with this very obvious troll? It’s Balbos, the same fucktard that’s trolled here for years.
DON’T BOTHER[/quote]
???BALBOS FROM CROATIA!!! ARRRRRRRGGGH! when did he get back? I love that guy! hahaha! some of his threads were pure gold![/quote]
I watched your avatar for like 4 minutes.
What’s going on in this thread??
Please,people,stick to the topic of this thread or ,with all due respect,refrain from posting random shit.