Psychology of Racism

Off Topic
161

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
ALDurr wrote:
LoneLobo wrote:
Blacks are being given undue recognition. Affirmative action is bullshit, and it penalizes whites for the actions of their forefathers. Being a minority gets you extra points on the SATs, more scholarship money, and a better chance of acceptance into colleges.

I’m in highschool right now, so these are issues that affect me. I’m sure others can relate to issues that affect their world. Minorities are probably much more likely to get a promotion in any sort of large corporate environment.

The opinion that minorities (blacks included) deserve affirmative action is what keeps racism going. To feel that you’re “owed” something is paramount feeling that you’re being wronged, and I would strongly hesitate to say that any condoned racism occurs these days. AA is simply racism the opposite direction, it’s like racism^-1

Kid, you are in high school and haven’t even tasted life yet! Your opinions on this topic hold about as much water as a bucket with a hole in the bottom! They reflect someone who has no clue about life! Grow up, get in the real world and then post on this topic! Making these comments while still being sheltered by mommy and daddy gives you ZERO credibility. STFU!

Hey DURRRR! When was the last time you lost out on a job or education because of government-sponsored racism? (and yes, giving someone extra points on the SATs just because of their race is racism to those not of that particular race).

So just maybe lonelobo has a closer view of this issue than you think. So maybe you might want to shut the $#%$%^ up and let the kid speak his mind.

[/quote]

When is the last time YOU lost out on a job due to government sponsored racism? With proof, not just your word vs. the people who didn’t hire you! Unless the company that you or I applied to was very sloppy in hiding its racism, no one can prove it! This was just a bullshit attempt on your part to try to support a racist viewpoint that you believe in. Nice try!

He does not have a closer view of the issue because he’s a kid and hasn’t lived in the real world yet! He sounds more like someone parroting some asshole adult’s viewpoint. He has no experience to back up anything he is saying. Just because the kid is echoing your own racist viewpoints, doesn’t mean he is anymore right than you are. Besides, this didn’t have anything to do with you anyway, so why don’t you STFU and mind your own business!

162

[quote]LoneLobo wrote:
frisbee wrote:
ALDurr wrote:
LoneLobo wrote:

Minorities are probably much more likely to get a promotion in any sort of large corporate environment.

HAHAHAHHAHA. You wanna say that affirmitive action is racist, thats debateable. But that above statement is pure horseshit.

I left a part out of that statement. It should read that I believe that minorities are more likely to get a promotion than an equally talented majority, simply because quotas exist.

Also, by large corporate environment, I was indicating corporations that would be multi-national, or at least large enough that they would possess employees of equivalent skill levels with varying ethnicities.[/quote]

Would you mind proving some of this? Are you honestly saying that blacks are now the majority of business owners and CEO’s in America?

163

[quote]LoneLobo wrote:
ALDurr wrote:
LoneLobo wrote:
Blacks are being given undue recognition. Affirmative action is bullshit, and it penalizes whites for the actions of their forefathers. Being a minority gets you extra points on the SATs, more scholarship money, and a better chance of acceptance into colleges.

I’m in highschool right now, so these are issues that affect me. I’m sure others can relate to issues that affect their world. Minorities are probably much more likely to get a promotion in any sort of large corporate environment.

The opinion that minorities (blacks included) deserve affirmative action is what keeps racism going. To feel that you’re “owed” something is paramount feeling that you’re being wronged, and I would strongly hesitate to say that any condoned racism occurs these days. AA is simply racism the opposite direction, it’s like racism^-1

Kid, you are in high school and haven’t even tasted life yet! Your opinions on this topic hold about as much water as a bucket with a hole in the bottom! They reflect someone who has no clue about life! Grow up, get in the real world and then post on this topic! Making these comments while still being sheltered by mommy and daddy gives you ZERO credibility. STFU!

And you, on the other hand, are an imbecile. If I had left out the words “I’m in highschool right now” would you have responded to me in an intelligent manner?
[/quote]

I would have responded in an intelligent manner if your statements were supported with actual facts and not reprocessed talking points from racist hate groups. Without real facts, I dismissed you as another angry, white male that feels trampled on by the government-sponsored racism. Boo-hoo! Cry me a river!

You are making a huge assumption. There are professionals on these boards of various educational levels, backgrounds and experiences. The fact that you believe that you can write, read and speak better than nearly everyone on these forums demonstrates that you lack the wisdom and maturity to be taken seriously.

Good for you.

[quote]
Interesting that you would refuse to answer someone’s comments not on a merit-based system, but on one composed purely of superficial qualities. That makes you equivalent to a racist as well. [/quote]

As I stated before, your comments lacked any real validity. Without any real data to support your statements, (such as “Being a minority gets you extra points on the SATs, more scholarship money, and a better chance of acceptance into colleges”) they are nothing more than the rantings of a racist young child who thinks that they know everything about the world.

Making statements like “Minorities are probably much more likely to get a promotion in any sort of large corporate environment” shows that you not only have no clue about racism in this society, but truly lack an understanding of corporate america as well. Experience is something you do not have.

If the world operated in the way your post read, colleges and universities would have a huge influx of black students across the board. Corporate America would be chock full of blacks at all levels. In fact, I would love to see this world that you are talking about, because it is not the world that the rest of us live in.

This is why I treated your post as the ravings of an inexperienced white kid that feels wronged by the boogeyman of government-sponsored racism. It is pure bullshit. Come back with some real points and you might get the respect that you are obviously craving.

164

[quote]Professor X wrote:
LoneLobo wrote:
frisbee wrote:
ALDurr wrote:
LoneLobo wrote:

Minorities are probably much more likely to get a promotion in any sort of large corporate environment.

HAHAHAHHAHA. You wanna say that affirmitive action is racist, thats debateable. But that above statement is pure horseshit.

I left a part out of that statement. It should read that I believe that minorities are more likely to get a promotion than an equally talented majority, simply because quotas exist.

Also, by large corporate environment, I was indicating corporations that would be multi-national, or at least large enough that they would possess employees of equivalent skill levels with varying ethnicities.

Would you mind proving some of this? Are you honestly saying that blacks are now the majority of business owners and CEO’s in America? [/quote]

He can’t prove it for two reasons. One, there is no available data to support these statements and two, he doesn’t have experience in corporate america to speak on it.

165

You’re a fool. Look up the Hopwood legislation, resulted in the Fifth Circuit Court finding UT guilty of discrimination… against whites. Perhaps you’d like to look up Proposition 209 in California, which forbids racial preferences in selection for higher education?

Perhaps you’ve never heard of Bowen and Bok, or their study. I’ll save you the long reading, because you don’t seem particularly intelligent, just contrary. [quote]“thus, among 1989 applicants to the five private schools studied intensively by Bowen and Bok, only 19 percent of whites with combined SAT scores from 1200 to 1249 were admitted, as against 60 percent of blacks with similar scores; in the next bracket up (1250-1299), 24 percent of whites but 75 percent of blacks were accepted. In these two brackets, then, the black acceptance rate was triple that for whites. In the 1500-or-better category, over a third of whites were turned down while every single black applicant got in.”[/quote]

Perhaps you’ve heard of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, and how it pretty much forces racial quotas? Perhaps you’ve heard of Bill Clinton announcing that his cabinet would have a diversity makeup representative of the US population? Perhaps you’ve never bothered to think anything outside your own cloistered thoughts?

Don’t write me off, because you’ll very soon (like immediately after reading this) be finding yourself looking like a buffoon.

And X, I didn’t say that the majority of business CEOs and presidents were black. I said minorities would be promoted over equally talented majorities in larger corporations. The reason for this is because there’s already a high number of whites in senior positions. If minorities were presidents, we wouldn’t have affirmative action.

166

[quote]LoneLobo wrote:
You’re a fool. Look up the Hopwood legislation, resulted in the Fifth Circuit Court finding UT guilty of discrimination… against whites. Perhaps you’d like to look up Proposition 209 in California, which forbids racial preferences in selection for higher education?

Perhaps you’ve never heard of Bowen and Bok, or their study. I’ll save you the long reading, because you don’t seem particularly intelligent, just contrary. “thus, among 1989 applicants to the five private schools studied intensively by Bowen and Bok, only 19 percent of whites with combined SAT scores from 1200 to 1249 were admitted, as against 60 percent of blacks with similar scores; in the next bracket up (1250-1299), 24 percent of whites but 75 percent of blacks were accepted. In these two brackets, then, the black acceptance rate was triple that for whites. In the 1500-or-better category, over a third of whites were turned down while every single black applicant got in.”

Perhaps you’ve heard of the 1964 Civil Rights Act? Perhaps you’ve heard of Bill Clinton announcing that his cabinet would have a diversity makeup representative of the US population? Perhaps you’ve never bothered to think anything outside your own cloistered thoughts?

Don’t write me off, because you’ll very soon (like immediately after reading this) finding yourself looking like a buffoon.[/quote]

Or, you could very well make yourself look like an overanxious juvenile. You wrote this before:
“Minorities are probably much more likely to get a promotion in any sort of large corporate environment.”

To prove this, you bring up the Hopwood legislation which erased any concept of acceptance based on race at UT law school along with Prop 209 which obliterated Affirmative Action in California? I don’t understand. I thought you were going to prove how easy it was for this to happen:

“Minorities are probably much more likely to get a promotion in any sort of large corporate environment.”

It looks like you stumbled on a web site and simply copy and pasted your way into a response. One of the concepts put forth by Bowen and Bok was that minorities who were accepted went on to do very well if not better than some of the white students in the same programs even though their initial testing scores may have kept them out before affirmative action. They implied that being prepared for the exam could very much make the difference and that more criteria than grades alone should go into acceptance. I personally agree with this as recommendation letters, extra curricular activities and leadership roles very often go into the final decision of acceptance when it comes to grad schools. Comparing SAT scores alone would show none of these other factors.

I think it could very easily be argued whether affirmative action is needed anywhere near this level (if at all) in the year 2005. However, that isn’t even what you are arguing. You argued that “Minorities are probably much more likely to get a promotion in any sort of large corporate environment.”…and again, I am simply asking for proof of this…not more things you find on random web sites about affirmative action over the years.

My opinion is that there was very much a time and place for it. My opinion is that time may be passing as long as discrimination based on race falls to levels that don’t threaten the progression of an entire group of people in this country that included minorities and women for many years.

167

I see you added this later:

…And we probably wouldn’t need affirmative action at all. The truth is, there are very few senior positions in corporate America occupied by minorities, especially women as a whole.

However, some of that is slowly changing. Take Stanley O’Neal for instance.
from: http://www.fortune.com/fortune/blackpower/snapshot/0,15307,1,00.html
Age: 50
Company: Merril Lynch

This is a far cry, however, from what you stated when you wrote, “Minorities are probably much more likely to get a promotion in any sort of large corporate environment.” I don’t know who lied to you, but if you think that affirmative action made that much headway in America that whites are now the corporate minority that simply can’t keep up, you may want to slap whoever told you this.

The year 2005-2006 is a far cry from the environment that even spawned affirmative action in the first place. The simple fact that I have someone to look up to in a position like that who looks anything like me is something that my grandparents could have never experienced growing up. To ignore that it has been a struggle to this point would be unwise and blind. People can argue whether affirmative action was needed all they want to. My guess is, very few truly either have a concept of what racism was like to spark it in the first place…or they simply don’t care. Either way, that wasn’t even your argument…was it?

168

[quote]LoneLobo wrote:
Professor X wrote:
thabigdon24 wrote:
X, its just a personal opinion. But i think white people in general feel guilty about the effects of racism. The 60’s aren’t that far away! Wouldn’t you feel that a culture that has finally taken notice of itself and accepted the fact that it is commiting a horrendous act to feel guilty over this? If so, would this be expressed or not?You love to argue but thats my logic take it or leave it.

btw what kind of doctor are you?

  1. The act of feeling any type of guilt for actions of the past is not unheard of. The idea you gave, however, was as if blacks are being given undue recognition as a result of it.

Blacks are being given undue recognition. Affirmative action is bullshit, and it penalizes whites for the actions of their forefathers. Being a minority gets you extra points on the SATs, more scholarship money, and a better chance of acceptance into colleges.

I’m in highschool right now, so these are issues that affect me. I’m sure others can relate to issues that affect their world. Minorities are probably much more likely to get a promotion in any sort of large corporate environment.

The opinion that minorities (blacks included) deserve affirmative action is what keeps racism going. To feel that you’re “owed” something is paramount feeling that you’re being wronged, and I would strongly hesitate to say that any condoned racism occurs these days. AA is simply racism the opposite direction, it’s like racism^-1
[/quote]

so when a population is generally poorer, less likely to be educated apppropriately, likely to die many years earlier, likely to be affected with diseases at greater rates

they dont deserve a little leg up?

when this is traced back to slavery which was enforced upon them they dont deserve some compensation?

You can look at it at an individual level or a population level…

At an individual level some people will have to miss out, but that pales in comparison to the overal good that occurs to the population - hence the reason that the affirmative action laws exist…

169

[quote]LoneLobo wrote:
ALDurr wrote:
LoneLobo wrote:
Blacks are being given undue recognition. Affirmative action is bullshit, and it penalizes whites for the actions of their forefathers. Being a minority gets you extra points on the SATs, more scholarship money, and a better chance of acceptance into colleges.

I’m in highschool right now, so these are issues that affect me. I’m sure others can relate to issues that affect their world. Minorities are probably much more likely to get a promotion in any sort of large corporate environment.

The opinion that minorities (blacks included) deserve affirmative action is what keeps racism going. To feel that you’re “owed” something is paramount feeling that you’re being wronged, and I would strongly hesitate to say that any condoned racism occurs these days. AA is simply racism the opposite direction, it’s like racism^-1

Kid, you are in high school and haven’t even tasted life yet! Your opinions on this topic hold about as much water as a bucket with a hole in the bottom! They reflect someone who has no clue about life! Grow up, get in the real world and then post on this topic! Making these comments while still being sheltered by mommy and daddy gives you ZERO credibility. STFU!

And you, on the other hand, are an imbecile. If I had left out the words “I’m in highschool right now” would you have responded to me in an intelligent manner? I can write, read, and speak better than nearly everyone on these forums, and as such do not deserve to be looked down upon because of my age. Oh, and BTW, I live by myself. In an apartment. In a city. I cook my own meals, pay my own gym membership, and wash my own windows.

Interesting that you would refuse to answer someone’s comments not on a merit-based system, but on one composed purely of superficial qualities. That makes you equivalent to a racist as well. [/quote]

just out of interest how do you pay for it all?

Do you work?
What are your other sources of income?
You pay for your gym membership but not your appartment?

170

[quote]LoneLobo wrote:
frisbee wrote:
ALDurr wrote:
LoneLobo wrote:

Minorities are probably much more likely to get a promotion in any sort of large corporate environment.

HAHAHAHHAHA. You wanna say that affirmitive action is racist, thats debateable. But that above statement is pure horseshit.

I left a part out of that statement. It should read that I believe that minorities are more likely to get a promotion than an equally talented majority, simply because quotas exist.

Also, by large corporate environment, I was indicating corporations that would be multi-national, or at least large enough that they would possess employees of equivalent skill levels with varying ethnicities.[/quote]

if they are equally talented does it even matter?

What % of Doctors in america are american Indian or african american relative to population are they under represented?

If they are under represented why is that?

Now I understand that the health of American Indians is not good. Is that correct? Do they die 15 years earlier then the general pop or something? Would having more American Indian doctors help that by overcoming social and cultural barriers to health care?

Same with CEOs? Except forget health but apply wealth and education and role models etc…

171

Honestly, X, you’re so thickheaded. Everyone here recognizes that you’re drawing on a minor issue I brought up alongside my major point, which was AA in the scholastic setting. In response to my quote: Do you then concede that blacks with lower test scores are admitted? Is that not AA? Results be damned, the fact that they’re admitted is proof of AA.
Perhaps you’ve never heard of UM at Ann Arbor, where you get 166% more points for being black than scoring perfectly on your SATs? Where 20% of the points needed for admission can be generated by being black, whereas you get 0 points for being white. Or UC Berkely, which hit the news recently for allowing students with 2.9 GPAs and SAT scores from 600 to 1000 in, because they’re primarily minorities.
And in regards to blacks being successful? [quote]“If Bowen and Bok make much of graduation rates and nothing of dropout rates, they also downplay actual classroom performance. Nevertheless, they do admit a startling fact: the cumulative grade-point average of the African-American students at their 28 schools puts them at the 23rd percentile (i.e., in the bottom quarter) of their class.”[/quote]

And in regards to you constantly harping on my examples in the business world: I stated I hadn’t had experience in the business world, and then included the modifier probably. Thus, that would not be my main point of contention. Focus on my topic: AA in higher education. I don’t want to talk about the business world because I don’t know about that. Fight my facts with your facts, don’t go chasing ghosts. Are you too much of a coward to admit you’re wrong on the college argument?

172

[quote]LoneLobo wrote:
Honestly, X, you’re so thickheaded. Everyone here recognizes that you’re drawing on a minor issue I brought up alongside my major point, which was AA in the scholastic setting. In response to my quote: Do you then concede that blacks with lower test scores are admitted? Is that not AA? Results be damned, the fact that they’re admitted is proof of AA.[/quote]

Who has denied this? The point being made to you was why exclude the difference in readiness for those standardized tests or any other environmental factors? If many of those same kids, after admission, then go on to be successful and of equal performance to the very kids that had higher initial test scores, that to me speaks very loudly to the possible fact that standardized tests may not be the greatest judgment of potential scholastic achievment. You would only have a point if these same students simply flunk out after being admitted in majority. Since that doesn’t appear to be the case, why ignore that many of the factors that may be leading up to those lower test scores are in fact related to past racism and the difference in culture in America? That isn’t thickheaded. It’s the truth.

Do you honestly think the kids growing in 3rd ward Houston (which is predominantly black) are getting the exact same readiness for college in life or academically as their counterparts in Bellaire of the same city? The difference in culture alone could equate to a difference. You are acting as if this isn’t what affirmative action is countering when that is the very thing it is being active against.

173

I grew up in a shitty little town on the coast, with a meth bust every weekend. We have 2 electives at that school, PE and weights. Our highest math course is Algebra 2. No honors anything, physics is only taught every 2 years. You wanna know how many black kids at that school? 2. It’s a bunch of poor (po’) white kids, and none of them are prepared for college at all.

You have failed to conclusively prove that anyone that comes out of those top tier schools will become successful. Harvard has a 97% graduation rate or something. You think there are many people that graduate from Harvard and can’t get a job? A name means a lot, and it’s retarded to assume that those black or hispanic kids are doing any better than the white and asian kids whose spot they took would have.

Oh yeah, another bit of the Bowen and Bok study: [quote]In addition, the black students attending such schools come from relatively well-educated and affluent families. Although Bowen and Bok scarcely mention it, 64 percent of the African-Americans in their study had at least one parent who graduated from college (among all black youths of college age, the comparable figure is 11 percent), and only a fifth came from families with incomes of less than $22,000 (nationally, half of all African-Americans of college age fall into this category). Colleges like Princeton and Yale admit an even more advantaged element of the black population, and it stands to reason that such privileged youngsters will graduate at much higher rates than their less affluent peers[/quote]
Those kids aren’t coming from 3rd row Houston or whatever. Don’t kid yourself.

174

[quote]Chris Aus wrote:
LoneLobo wrote:
frisbee wrote:
ALDurr wrote:
LoneLobo wrote:

Minorities are probably much more likely to get a promotion in any sort of large corporate environment.

HAHAHAHHAHA. You wanna say that affirmitive action is racist, thats debateable. But that above statement is pure horseshit.

I left a part out of that statement. It should read that I believe that minorities are more likely to get a promotion than an equally talented majority, simply because quotas exist.

Also, by large corporate environment, I was indicating corporations that would be multi-national, or at least large enough that they would possess employees of equivalent skill levels with varying ethnicities.

if they are equally talented does it even matter?
[/quote]

That’s my point. It shouldn’t matter, but affirmative action makes it so it does. Selection should be race blind.

175

[quote]LoneLobo wrote:
That’s my point. It shouldn’t matter, but affirmative action makes it so it does. Selection should be race blind.

[/quote]

And so should education across the board and the hiring practices of the last 20-30 years. Since they were not, affirmative action was the answer. I am waiting for your list of alternatives that would have been better and more effective than AA.

176

[quote]firemedichcfr14 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Mad Titan wrote:
I will admit i didn’t like his comments either. Now is he racist? I can’t say but from his comment he has STRONG BIAS against my race. Besides you don’t have to wear white sheets to be a racist. I see and hear people like all the time here in california san diego to be exact I just let it roll off my back.

Apparently, noting anything they actually said as being racist now makes you a racist as well.

You have still not pointed out how skinny’s remarks were racist in any way shape or form.

Still time to do it why don’t you try?

[/quote]

why don’t your try rereading that particular post and ask that question again…did i say he was racist? amazing how people seem to be oblivious to things that right in front of them…

177

[quote]Mad Titan wrote:
firemedichcfr14 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Mad Titan wrote:
I will admit i didn’t like his comments either. Now is he racist? I can’t say but from his comment he has STRONG BIAS against my race. Besides you don’t have to wear white sheets to be a racist. I see and hear people like all the time here in california san diego to be exact I just let it roll off my back.

Apparently, noting anything they actually said as being racist now makes you a racist as well.

You have still not pointed out how skinny’s remarks were racist in any way shape or form.

Still time to do it why don’t you try?

why don’t your try rereading that particular post and ask that question again…did i say he was racist? amazing how people seem to be oblivious to things that right in front of them…
[/quote]

You seem confused. I did not quote your post the person I was debating quoted your post and when I in turn quoted him your post showed up again.

178

[quote]Hey DURRRR! When was the last time you lost out on a job or education because of government-sponsored racism? (and yes, giving someone extra points on the SATs just because of their race is racism to those not of that particular race).
[/quote]

Since this thread is supposedly about psychology, it has been shown that Black students will underperform on tests if they are told they are a measure of intelligence (if they are not told this, they perform as well as white students; Spencer, Steele, & Quinn, 1999). This has been attributed to anxiety produced by societal expectations. This alone entirely justifies adding points to the test scores of Black students.

Trying to level out the playing field is not racism. I would go as far as saying opposing affirmative action (without proposing a better alternative) is a racist position. If anything, affirmative action isn’t enough. And while I feel that steps such as providing free or cheap internet access in poor areas is a huge step in the right direction, it still isn’t nearly enough.

179

Okay you missed my point…

If they are equally talented why does it matter to you that a minority gets the position considering that (and this is a generalisation) they needed to be overcome more to get to the same position…

If they are truly equally talented the selection will be random anyway or will come down to other things like whos dad is friends with who etc etc etc…

When you can identify that a group of people is less educated, poorer, paid less, living considerably shorter, less likely to have adequate health care, more likely to commit suicide, more likely to go to jail etc etc etc I really dont see the problem…

If something doesnt happen to help then being born a minority will continue to be a real disadvantage in life, which it shouldnt be.

At an individual level sure some people will miss out but at a population level which has the greater good?

Also this intrigued me…

So its okay for kids to benefit from the actions of their forefathers but its suddenly unfair if they are disadvantaged?.. If a kids great great great grandfather did something cool, like find an oil field, invent something, exploit african americans buy selling them off and make a ton of money, kill american indians steal their land and sell it for millions of dollars etc theres every chance they get the benefit of all the money, they buy their way into college etc, wont have to work as hard or be as talented as other people trying for the same positions.

If their parents have friends in large firms they will get the positions etc etc etc.

If you are going to be mad at people getting some help go be mad at all the rich kids in the world that have everything come to them… that think they are owed something because their great great grandfather invented something, or their dad was an astute business man…

Would be good if you could answer these questions also…

What % of Doctors in america are american Indian or african american relative to population? are they under represented?

If they are under represented why is that?

Now I understand that the health of American Indians is not good. Is that correct? Do they die 15 years earlier then the general pop or something? Would having more American Indian doctors help that by overcoming social and cultural barriers to health care?

Could having quotas and allowing american indian students who will work with american indians and dont have the cultural barriers that others do help american indian health?

Same with CEOs? Except forget health but apply wealth and education and role models etc…

180

[quote]LoneLobo wrote:
Honestly, X, you’re so thickheaded. Everyone here recognizes that you’re drawing on a minor issue I brought up alongside my major point, which was AA in the scholastic setting. In response to my quote: Do you then concede that blacks with lower test scores are admitted? Is that not AA? Results be damned, the fact that they’re admitted is proof of AA.
Perhaps you’ve never heard of UM at Ann Arbor, where you get 166% more points for being black than scoring perfectly on your SATs? Where 20% of the points needed for admission can be generated by being black, whereas you get 0 points for being white. Or UC Berkely, which hit the news recently for allowing students with 2.9 GPAs and SAT scores from 600 to 1000 in, because they’re primarily minorities.
And in regards to blacks being successful? “If Bowen and Bok make much of graduation rates and nothing of dropout rates, they also downplay actual classroom performance. Nevertheless, they do admit a startling fact: the cumulative grade-point average of the African-American students at their 28 schools puts them at the 23rd percentile (i.e., in the bottom quarter) of their class.”

And in regards to you constantly harping on my examples in the business world: I stated I hadn’t had experience in the business world, and then included the modifier probably. Thus, that would not be my main point of contention. Focus on my topic: AA in higher education. I don’t want to talk about the business world because I don’t know about that. Fight my facts with your facts, don’t go chasing ghosts. Are you too much of a coward to admit you’re wrong on the college argument? [/quote]

166% MORE points…

so if you get 100 you end up with 266?