[quote]Professor X wrote:
firemedichcfr14 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I thought T-Nation screened out all Grand Wizards? Oh well.
Why is it that your personal experience of other kids grabbing at your hair and some picking fights with you is somehow more meaningful and important than skinnygrowboy’s?
Did anyone imply that you were a racist after you posted your personal experience? Were you called a derogatory name?
Why are skinny’s comments worthy of derision?
Very simple. For one, I didn’t even speak of that experience until specifically asked by another poster if I had experenced something similar to someone that he wrote about.[/quote]
It doesn’t make any difference whether you were asked about your experience or just volunteered it. Who care’s it’s a forum.
That’s not the truth. You went on to complain about about several different areas: Upbringing, news, childhood development, media and music. It seems that you were not happy about any of it. Then again they are your experiences and you are entitled to see them any way you want-BUT SO IS SKINNY!
Becuause that happened to be YOUR experience. He had HIS experience.
If I state that a gang of black men threw stones at my care does that make me a racist? Or, am I just conveying my personal experience?
It only makes me a racist if from that one experience I state: “all black people throw stones at cars and are bad.”
Skinny never said that.
No actually you stated your experience and he stated his. That his is different than your own should not take away from your own. Neither does your experience have anything to do with his.
[quote] Not only that, but in spite of anything I have experienced, my goals haven’t been obstructed yet. Perhaps his wife is simply not qualified. But of course, you wouldn’t see that as an option.
[/quote]
His wife might just be the dumbest person who ever drew a breath. But, it’s his observation and memory that that is not the case. Just like it’s your observation and memory regarding your own experiences growing up.
I think you might want to take another look at your lengthy post of observations and memories before you liken skinny to a Grand Wizard.
[quote]firemedichcfr14 wrote:
It doesn’t make any difference whether you were asked about your experience or just volunteered it. Who care’s it’s a forum.[/quote]
Apparently you care and it does make a difference considering the topic is “The Psychology of Racism” instead of “Random experiences involving race”. Had I not been asked, I wouldn’t have even brought that up.
[quote]
That’s not the truth. You went on to complain about about several different areas: Upbringing, news, childhood development, media and music. It seems that you were not happy about any of it. Then again they are your experiences and you are entitled to see them any way you want-BUT SO IS SKINNY! [/quote]
Gasp. You mean…I discussed the topic!!! How dare I!?
[quote]
Becuause that happened to be YOUR experience. He had HIS experience.[/quote]
Read above.
[quote]
If I state that a gang of black men threw stones at my care does that make me a racist? Or, am I just conveying my personal experience? [/quote]
It depends on the context and whether you are implying this is the activity of most blacks or all blacks.
[quote]
No actually you stated your experience and he stated his. That his is different than your own should not take away from your own. Neither does your experience have anything to do with his.[/quote]
This topic isn’t about specific experiences so unless he is specifically asked, why mention it?
almost reminds me of the adam sandler movie ‘the animal’ i believe… but not quite.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
thabigdon24 wrote:
Another thing that white people do and im not really complaining this but we tend to act out our guilt over pass racism that we have done towards blacks today. I mean, and im guilty of this too, we sometimes give African american stuff or individual black people admiration sometimes. I don’t know how to explain it but for the fact that white people in america have done some nasty things and are apologetic about it.
Who are these black people that are getting stuff because of guilty white people? What things have you given? You give black people admiration because you are guilty for being white? I have to say, I seriously doubt this is going on to any degree worth even speaking of. I suppose Rosa Parks falls into that category.[/quote]
[quote]Tstud_9 wrote:
almost reminds me of the adam sandler movie ‘the animal’ i believe… but not quite.
Professor X wrote:
thabigdon24 wrote:
Another thing that white people do and im not really complaining this but we tend to act out our guilt over pass racism that we have done towards blacks today. I mean, and im guilty of this too, we sometimes give African american stuff or individual black people admiration sometimes. I don’t know how to explain it but for the fact that white people in america have done some nasty things and are apologetic about it.
Who are these black people that are getting stuff because of guilty white people? What things have you given? You give black people admiration because you are guilty for being white? I have to say, I seriously doubt this is going on to any degree worth even speaking of. I suppose Rosa Parks falls into that category.
[/quote]
Im not trying to say that acting overly “antiracist” is a bad thing. I just think that its fake as much as the purpose is to show that. Its just a social game that people play w/ each other and i’ve done it too, even good enough to be able to go for the black chicks in the group and they are supposedly hard to get kinds. We would do things like when we saw something racist on tv or something get up and say " What the hell! " with a lot of show, we can be pretty dramatic. One girl had a poster of a black panther w/ a gun looking pissed , brought it to hang at another guy’s house and the caucasians wouldn’t really know what to say about it so some polite comments were made. " oh thats cool " and " nice poster" kind of stuff. And that fake kind of thing is wrong granted but im not comfortable with putting on a show for people for anything really thats me.
Ideally it should because you agree wholeheartedly with what is going on. The spin you are trying to do shouldn’t play into the picture. My $0.02
Apparently you care and it does make a difference considering the topic is “The Psychology of Racism” instead of “Random experiences involving race”. Had I not been asked, I wouldn’t have even brought that up.[/quote]
who are you to say that his experience does not fit “The Psychology of Racisim?” He is as on topic as most others.
That’s not the truth. You went on to complain about about several different areas: Upbringing, news, childhood development, media and music. It seems that you were not happy about any of it. Then again they are your experiences and you are entitled to see them any way you want-BUT SO IS SKINNY!
Yes you discussed the topic and then went on to condemn him for discussing the topic. Why did you do that?
[quote]If I state that a gang of black men threw stones at my care does that make me a racist? Or, am I just conveying my personal experience?
It depends on the context and whether you are implying this is the activity of most blacks or all blacks.[/quote]
He did not say that it was “all blacks.”
[quote]No actually you stated your experience and he stated his. That his is different than your own should not take away from your own. Neither does your experience have anything to do with his.
This topic isn’t about specific experiences so unless he is specifically asked, why mention it?[/quote]
It’s a thread about racism and it is on topic!
[quote]I think you might want to take another look at your lengthy post of observations and memories before you liken skinny to a Grand Wizard.
That comment of yours was very low.
No, it wasn’t and my original post in this thread was on topic. It is amazing how you can’t see that or even understand it.
[/quote]
I understand that when you complain about racism in it’s various forms that it’s quite alright. But when skinny complained about it you implied he was a Grand Wizard from the KKK.
And, that was a very low and racist comment on your part.
You really should not have done that. People will start thinking that you are a black racist.
who are you to say that his experience does not fit “The Psychology of Racisim?” He is as on topic as most others.[/quote]
If his psychology of racism is inspired by what some black people did specifically to him (which implies he thinks of all blacks that way) then tell me again why you are defending him?
[quote]
Yes you discussed the topic and then went on to condemn him for discussing the topic. Why did you do that?[/quote]
If his discussion of the “psychology of racism” involves what some blacks did to him (while going on to describe shit that happens everyday in every poor neighborhood across America regardless of color), then he is a racist. Again, why are you defending that?
[quote]
He did not say that it was “all blacks.”[/quote]
He didn’t have to. If his comment is actually in line with “The psychology of racism” then it is implied if he only talks about black people. By the way, you aren’t helping his case. You might want to let someone else debate for you.
[quote]
I understand that when you complain about racism in it’s various forms that it’s quite alright. But when skinny complained about it you implied he was a Grand Wizard from the KKK.[/quote]
Wrong. No matter how hard you try, you can’t erase the fact that I was asked a question and I responded to it. Regardless of how bad you want it to be so, you can’t throw away the fact that I didn’t just insert that for no reason and wasn’t making any generalizations. That was a direct experience based on what we were discussing, not a description of all whites in America.
You seem to be having a hard time following, so let’s go slow. If your friend’s comment was in direct relation to this topic, it very much makes his comment a racist comment. My experience listed was in direct response to a question asked of me, not in line with this topic. If you can’t grasp this concept, tough. It would work better if you could go back in time and prevent that question being asked. That alone seperates the context and no matter how hard you try, you can’t get rid of it.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Affirmative actions was necessary due to the overwhelming amount of racist hiring (as well as educational progression)going on in America before it was instituted. You can’t counter that type of institutionalized racism by “helping people increase their potential”. How do you do that if many blacks weren’t even being accepted into colleges regardless of grades in the early part of the last century? Do you understand why there was even a need for historically black colleges?
[/quote]
I understand that rationale. But why would we need a program like this when we already had laws making it illegal to discriminate based on race? Wouldn’t it have been a better approach to simply make sure the law is being enforced instead of doing the very thing that the law forbids?
Two guys go to a job interview, one is black and the other white. The black guy is more qualified than the white guy, but the white guy gets the job. The black guy should then file a complaint with the labor board and have the company prosecuted.
I mean, they also had to enforce affirmative action. So why is it easier to enforce quotas than punish discrimination?
But I believe the real answer is that at that time, most blacks were just not qualified and would loose out to more qualified Whites or Asians. So it was really reparations for past injustices, not to make things equal or prevent discrimination, because the mechanism to do that was already in place.
[quote]
There were studies done in the 90’s, presented to our previous president, showing the lesser wages earned by minorities and women for the same jobs as white males. There is no question at all of whether affirmative action was needed. The only viable question is whether it is still needed today.[/quote]
So you place no responsibility on the minorities for the wage they earn? It’s all a factor of skin color? I think you need to look deeper than that. That may be the quick and easy answer, but I don’t think it is that simple. Since Whites were the majority in the US for a long time, they had a much better understanding of the business world and what it takes to succeed. Since minorities were shut out of that for some time they would be naturally behind the curve so to speak in business savvy.
There is also the cultural factor. At that time, you just couldn’t have dread-locks or some other very “ethnic” thing going on and get ahead in the business world. Even today, you have to fit into the corp. mold or you just don’t go as far as you could. So while blacks may see this as “selling out”; Whites see it as what you need to do to succeed.
It is many of these differences that may also reflect why Whites earn more than many minorities.
One last thing. It’s funny how Asian’s are now lumped with Whites as a “non-minority” group when it comes to Affirmative Action. For example, for admission to Colleges Whites and Asians are automatically moved to the bottom.
So the system has changed from being raced based to achievement based. If your race is high achieving, that is somehow unfair and you are placed on the bottom.
[quote]Lorisco wrote:
I understand that rationale. But why would we need a program like this when we already had laws making it illegal to discriminate based on race? Wouldn’t it have been a better approach to simply make sure the law is being enforced instead of doing the very thing that the law forbids? [/quote]
Because institutionalized racism isn’t that simple. You can make 500 different reasons for why you won’t hire someone all to cover up the fact that you simply don’t like a certain color of people. You could very well have 2 applicants, both who qualify, however one could be black and the other white.
Even if the black applicant has higher ratings, you could still LEGALLY hire the white guy simply because he qualifies as well. Do you get it now? How stupid do you think people really are? Without affirmative action, you actually believe that this wouldn’t have happened? Wow.
[quote]
I mean, they also had to enforce affirmative action. So why is it easier to enforce quotas than punish discrimination? [/quote]
Read above. Because you would have to prove that it was specifically because of race. Any smart racist employer would simply come up with some other reason for not hiring them. Reasonable doubt means no prosecution. In fact, we can take it even further and talk about who in the hell was going to afford taking every possible employer to court.
[quote]
But I believe the real answer is that at that time, most blacks were just not qualified and would loose out to more qualified Whites or Asians. So it was really reparations for past injustices, not to make things equal or prevent discrimination, because the mechanism to do that was already in place.[/quote]
Uh, see if you can follow me. If blacks weren’t even being accepted into colleges based on race, OF COURSE whites were more qualified for many positions. You do know this happened, right? Are you actually of the delusion that racism in America was a minor issue in the 50’s, 60’s and even 70’s?
Very often, a black applicant had to outshine any other possible prospects just to be seen as equal to them (as if this still doesn’t go on some aspects today). That isn’t equality at all.
[quote]
So you place no responsibility on the minorities for the wage they earn? It’s all a factor of skin color? I think you need to look deeper than that.[/quote]
And I think you need to realize what is being said to you. This was not a small issue. Racism in America was HUGE, GIGANTIC and FILLING EVERY ASPECT OF SOCIETY. This wasn’t some minor race for a job. This branched into every aspect of life. That took a major institutional change to overcome.
Is that so? So discrimination was really justified because all white people were born with a great knowledge of “business savvy”? Did that “business savvy” involve business in black communities? Do tell. How “business savvy” was the average white guy in America in 1950 when it came to business directed at minorities?
[quote]
There is also the cultural factor. At that time, you just couldn’t have dread-locks or some other very “ethnic” thing going on and get ahead in the business world. Even today, you have to fit into the corp. mold or you just don’t go as far as you could. So while blacks may see this as “selling out”; Whites see it as what you need to do to succeed. [/quote]
So, if I shave my head, do I have to worry about what the corporate mold states? It isn’t viewed as selling out. It is viewed as not being able to show any aspect of who you truly are just to be successful. I shouldn’t have to morph into a really dark skinned white guy just to work professionally. You think I should?
I agree with anyone who thinks someone should look professional. However, who is it that states a close cut afro is the only style I can present on a job and look professional?
[quote]
It is many of these differences that may also reflect why Whites earn more than many minorities. [/quote]
Do you earn more than me? That is truly a rhetorical question seeing as affirmative action broke many of the barriers that would have potentially kept me from being successful.
According to you, those barriers shouldn’t have been forcefully removed meaning that I very well could be 2 or 3 generations behind the mark I currently am simply based on school acceptance alone.
[quote]
One last thing. It’s funny how Asian’s are now lumped with Whites as a “non-minority” group when it comes to Affirmative Action. For example, for admission to Colleges Whites and Asians are automatically moved to the bottom. [/quote]
I wouldn’t know the specifics, however, I can tell you that when I graduated, I was the only black male out of a class that was half and half white and asian with a slight asian majority.
The point of affirmative action was to balance the field. Again, whether it is still needed today is the only worthy debate. I would also venture that asian americans experience less overall discrimination than blacks or hispanics, however, that is only an assumption.
I didn’t have intention of posting again, but obviously I need to do it just for Prof. X’s benefit. Obviously he does not know what a conditioned response is or about Pavlov’s studies. A conditioned response occurs when someone bases their expectations for the future on their experiences of the past. (Pavlov developed this theory based on the salivation of dogs in response to a dinner bell.) To exemplify this point, the explanation of personal experience is necessary. My point was that some racism is “learned” by personal experience. Don’t even try to turn this around to say that I admitted being a racist because I’m not. It’s meant to show how one could be swayed in that direction.
Prof. X, you should also study up on something that is called “projection” in psychology. That is when you justify your own faults by finding them (or projecting them onto) others.
If his psychology of racism is inspired by what some black people did specifically to him (which implies he thinks of all blacks that way) then tell me again why you are defending him?[/quote]
He did not “imply” that all blacks did anything to him. You are assuming that clearly. He just stated his experiences. Which by the way is no different than what you did.
Were you implying that all white children wanted to feel your hair?
If he is discussing “what some blacks did to him” that does not on it’s face make him a racist. Anymore than it makes you a racist for discussing what some white kids did to you.
They were both experiences that the two of you had in a world that is indeed was and still is filled with racism.
I think that’s your opinion alone. Perhaps you should stick with this debate and not try to demean my argument by stating that I am doing a poor job. That is a tactic that I have seen you pull often. I’ll forget it this time. Wait, no I guess I didn’t forget it.
[quote]I understand that when you complain about racism in it’s various forms that it’s quite alright. But when skinny complained about it you implied he was a Grand Wizard from the KKK.
Wrong. No matter how hard you try, you can’t erase the fact that I was asked a question and I responded to it. Regardless of how bad you want it to be so, you can’t throw away the fact that I didn’t just insert that for no reason and wasn’t making any generalizations. That was a direct experience based on what we were discussing, not a description of all whites in America.[/quote]
No matter how hard you try you cannot convince anyone on this thread that “YOU” personally were asked a dam thing!
Also, the description that you gave was not about all whites in America. And the description that skinny gave was not about all blacks in America. Simple for most folks to see. I’m sure everyone on the forum can see it. But for some reason you can’t.
HERE IS AN INTERESTING POINT-
About the assertion that you were asked a question. You were the second one to post on this thread. The original poster was asking everyone and anyone to comment. You just happened to be the first to comment. How is that asking YOU a question?
Here is his post:
“I am doing this paper for English class and am trying to find potential psychological factors that may lead people to hate. There are the obvious like a family’s influence on their children and extreme situations that can have an impact on one’s mindset. But this seems like such a broad topic and the influences for hatred seemed endless. Any thoughts?”
Take a look at the second sentence:
“There are the obvious like a family’s influence on their children and extreme situations that can have an impact on one’s mindset.”
Among other things he appears to be asking for “extreme situations that can have an impact on one’s mindset.” Skinny clearly gave him a personal experience, just as you did. Neither of you were wrong up to that point.
You made it “wrong” when you implied that he was a “Grand Wizard” from the KKK because he had a bad experience with some black people.
You really should not have done that. People will start thinking that you are a black racist.
And they are no better than white racists.
Again, I have to assume that this insult is supposed to intimidate me or perhaps gain support for your point in some odd way. It does neither. But it does show that you are arrogant. But then everyone who has been reading T-Nation for any length of time knows that.
That is a ludicrous statement. Why don’t you reread it? And while you are rereading, reread the original posters post. He was asking for general comments from the members. He did not ask YOU directly. Stop implying that he did!
And secondly he was asking for “extreme situations.” You responded with your experience which is legitimate. Skinny then responded with his, which is also legitimate. And then you implied he was a “Grand Wizard” which was not only illegitimate but not at all cool.
Do you feel foolish yet? The question was not asked of “YOU” specifically. It was asked to the general forum.
Do you in all your foolish bluster grasp the concept of an open forum? Do you grasp the concept of the original poster asking the open forum? Do you grasp the concept that skinny, just like you was answering to his “extreme experience?” Do you grasp the concept of black racism being as bad as white racism?
No probably not yet. And I doubt another 5 or 10 posts will help you along either. But, I am willing to commit the time if you are so inclined.
I think at this point, if you are as bright as you want everyone to think that you are, you might wish that you could go back in time and take back that “Grand Wizard” comment, which was racist by the way.
[quote]skinnygrowboy wrote:
Obviously he does not know what a conditioned response is or about Pavlov’s studies. [/quote]
Oh, but I do.
[quote]
A conditioned response occurs when someone bases their expectations for the future on their experiences of the past. (Pavlov developed this theory based on the salivation of dogs in response to a dinner bell.) [/quote]
You don’t say.
[quote]
To exemplify this point, the explanation of personal experience is necessary. My point was that some racism is “learned” by personal experience. Don’t even try to turn this around to say that I admitted being a racist because I’m not. It’s meant to show how one could be swayed in that direction.[/quote]
It could only possibly be a “conditioned response” if someone was very limited in their interection with anyone of a different color. Let me ask, how many other races have you lived around? It was just you and 5 million black people all grabbing their crotches and kicking your wife out of place for school positions? You grew up and had no positive relationships with any black people? I find that very hard to believe. In fact, I will go one step further and say that it is more likely that you already had many of these preconceptions and simply looked for them to be carried out and focused on it. I seriously doubt your parents raised you to be fair and judge people by character…but then the black people made you adopt racist views towards them all.
[quote]
Prof. X, you should also study up on something that is called “projection” in psychology. That is when you justify your own faults by finding them (or projecting them onto) others.[/quote]
You mean, like how your wife didn’t get into that “college program”?
He did not “imply” that all blacks did anything to him. You are assuming that clearly. He just stated his experiences. Which by the way is no different than what you did.[/quote]
Wrong. If his post was in line with this topic, then who else was he talking about? Just “those” black people?
[quote]
Were you implying that all white children wanted to feel your hair? [/quote]
No, I wasn’t. For the 3rd time, I was describing an event that happened to me that fell in direct line with the previous poster’s acquaintence. How much longer are you going to pretend as if I wasn’t asked a question?
[quote]
If he is discussing “what some blacks did to him” that does not on it’s face make him a racist. Anymore than it makes you a racist for discussing what some white kids did to you.[/quote]
If his comment is in line with “THE PSYCHOLOGY OF RACISM” and no one asked him a specific question about an experience, then it does make him a racist. Again, quit playing games or else let someone else play for you. Aanswer this, what question was I asked? Come on, you can do it. Just write down the question I was asked. It will be ok.
[quote]
No matter how hard you try you cannot convince anyone on this thread that “YOU” personally were asked a dam thing![/quote]
So, let me get this straight. When the previous poster wrote:
[quote] I have a friend who is 100% ethnic Japanese who was hit/slapped on the subway (in Japan) almost daily for having naturally curly hair and being a supposed “half-breed”. She has to straighten it before she goes out every day.
Anyone here have to do that?[/quote]
He meant “anyone but Professor X”? Quit lying to yourself or anyone else.
I imagine the rest of your post was filled with similar bullshit. I’ll read it later.
He did not “imply” that all blacks did anything to him. You are assuming that clearly. He just stated his experiences. Which by the way is no different than what you did.
Wrong. If his post was in line with this topic, then who else was he talking about? Just “those” black people?[/quote]
Skinny was indeed inline with the topic. He was no more talking about ALL black people than you were talking about ALL white people. The fact that you cannot see that is actually starting to entertain me.
[quote]Were you implying that all white children wanted to feel your hair?
No, I wasn’t. For the 3rd time, I was describing an event that happened to me that fell in direct line with the previous poster’s acquaintence. How much longer are you going to pretend as if I wasn’t asked a question?[/quote]
You are a funny guy. Go back and reread the original post. “YOU” were not asked any question directly. No more than Skinny was. It was a general question to all on the forum. The poster posted so that all could respond. Are you so egocentric that you think every original poster is posting directly to you? Are they trying to tap in to that giant brain? LOL
[quote]If he is discussing “what some blacks did to him” that does not on it’s face make him a racist. Anymore than it makes you a racist for discussing what some white kids did to you.
If his comment is in line with “THE PSHYCOLOGY OF RACISM” and no one asked him a specific question about an experience, then it does make him a racist. Again, quit playing games or else let someone else play for you. Aanswer this, what question was I asked? Come on, you can do it. Just write down the question I was asked. It will be ok.[/quote]
You were not specifically asked a question. Here is the post that preceeded your post, the one in where you made your original comments.
" I am doing this paper for English class and am trying to find potential psychological factors that may lead people to hate. There are the obvious like a family’s influence on their children and extreme situations that can have an impact on one’s mindset. But this seems like such a broad topic and the influences for hatred seemed endless. Any thoughts? "
Where in the above post does the poster ask you a question directly? He clearly is asking questions of the general forum. Since you are a part of the forum you responded. And that’s fine, so did skinny. That’s fine too.
Even you in all your arrogance should admit that one. You are looking really bad right now my man.
[quote] So, let me get this straight. When the previous poster wrote:
I have a friend who is 100% ethnic Japanese who was hit/slapped on the subway (in Japan) almost daily for having naturally curly hair and being a supposed “half-breed”. She has to straighten it before she goes out every day.
Anyone here have to do that?
He meant “anyone but Professor X”? Quit lying to yourself or anyone else. [/quote]
Actually, the response that you gave was the second response on this thread. The post to which you are now referring came later. I’m not even talking about that post and neither were you up to now. Since you have lost the debate on your reason for your racist slur you are changing the subject. But anyone who is keeping up with this thread need only go back and read the FIRST TWO POSTS.
You answered the original poster with a legitimate post, as did Skinny.
It only went bad when you implied that skinny was a “Grand Wizard” of the KKK.
That is racisim and it sucks!
It must also suck to be caught doing it as you seem to be twisting and turning like a bass on a the end of a fishing line.
This is fun for everyone, except the bass!
[quote] I imagine the rest of your post was filled with similar bullshit. I’ll read it later.
[/quote]
You don’t want to read the rest of the post do you? I can’t say that I blame you. If I displayed the sort of racism that you have on this thread I would not be very proud of it.
[quote]firemedichcfr14 wrote:
You are a funny guy. Go back and reread the original post. “YOU” were not asked any question directly. No more than Skinny was. It was a general question to all on the forum. The poster posted so that all could respond.[/quote]
If it was posted so that all could respond, why are you acting as if I was not included in that? I had a similar experience to the very question he asked. I shared that with him. Why would you or anyone else try to act as if my response was not directly related to the question he asked?
Where did I write that I don’t want to read the rest of your post? I said I would read it later. In all reality, i think your posting style is ridiculous and boring. Reading your entire rant is draining because it is saying nothing.
I will answer this one question and say “No”. Now, get back to attempting to prove that a question was asked that I was not supposed to respond to, or better yet, that by responding directly to a question, this makes me the racist. If I am asked, “have you ever experienced racism?” You think the aswer will be, “no comment”? You are dumbass and you keep showing it.
Unless you can prove that a question was asked and that my response was NOT directed at that question specifically, then you have no point. You are some guy really really stretching to make a point when you really don’t even have one.
This thread is supposedly about the psychology of racism. I suspect that many people who have contributed are in no position to discuss the psychology of anything.
Rainjack, if you want a pissing contest, start a new thread. I wouldn’t be surprised if you actually believed racism against whites was comperable to racism by whites in its severity, but I suspect you are only considering the problem from your own position, rather than from a more molar perspective.
To the original poster, if you are writing an english paper about psychology, you had better hope you have a lenient (or ignorant) professor. Unless, of course, you are dealing with the psychology of racism within literature, in which case you can knock yourself out.
Cultural norms, upbringing, personal experience and exposure or lack of exposure to racial hate/issues I believe are big factors.
Skimming through this forum, I find many peoples’ points interesting. Growing up in Hawaii, we are 100% sheltered from racism. I never heard a single racist remark in my life until at 20 years old.
I did a bit of work with a mainland bikini magazine, we were shooting on Waikiki Beach and a nice black elderly tourist couple were observing and inquiring, and the magazine people treated them differently than the white people, telling them to get away, and made a racial remark amongst themselves.
Needless to say, I ended up crying on the drive home, having never experienced something like that all my life, and that one experience has stuck with me to this day.
I believe in my own skewed experience being raised in Hawaii- a great melting pot- that upbringing and personal experience has much to do with a person’s view of race. It is virtually a non issue here. I’ll use my mom as an example of what kinds of lessons some of us are given here in regard to racism.
When I was around 9 years old, my mom decided to talk to me about racism. She said, “there are people in this world who don’t like other people because of their race,” my biggest question was “Why?”, then she explained this further and answered my many questions.
My racial extraction is mostly Chinese, and a bit of Hawaiian, French and Portuguese. She said (remember this is mom’s simplified explanation to a nine year old), “you can’t hate hispanic people, you are portuguese (I now know that portuguese is not hispanic); you can’t hate asians, you are asian; you can’t hate black people because they’re dark skinned, you are partly Hawaiian; you can’t hate samoans or tongans as you are polynesian; you can’t hate white people, you are part white.” And “you can’t hate any one, we are all brothers and sisters…we are all connected.”
I believe Hawaii is a different kind of place, where it’s part of the cultural norms to mix different races all in one pot of stew. Also, not growing up exposed to any kind of racial hate has a lot to do with the acceptance of different races.
[quote]jimmyjames66 wrote:
I am doing this paper for English class and am trying to find potential psychological factors that may lead people to hate. There are the obvious like a family’s influence on their children and extreme situations that can have an impact on one’s mindset. But this seems like such a broad topic and the influences for hatred seemed endless. Any thoughts? [/quote]
[quote]firemedichcfr14 wrote:
Are black racists any better than white racists?
[/quote]
No it all sucks. And for skinny and anybody else that thinks affirmaive action is racist, imagine that you are a ruler of a country. You would want your nation to be as wealthy and powerful as possible right?
And assuming that it is a nation that has traditionally thrived w/ immigrants, for it to be perceived that everybody has an equal chancce. Not an equal condition or result but an equal oppurtunity. Its hard to argue that since black people were recently upgraded from 2nd class citizens that they could be expected to be as productive as other groups that have basically everything handed to them on a silver platter.
Well your particular nation happened to import slaves and just recently have they been able to even attend college.
In order to grow the country’s GDP, tax base and provide equal oppurtunity for all groups in the best way you have to bring up the bottom. Thats why we have affirmative action. We won’t have to have it forever, mabey 50 years.
Black people have been doing well lately and have fit into the middle class nicely and are quickly gaining on whites as far as things like test scores. Which is one of the few things that Bush has done right , education. Yes its wrong to decide things by race but its a lesser evil than having them go without a college education when they might be whip smart.
Hopefully other T-Nation people will add something to this thread.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Because institutionalized racism isn’t that simple. You can make 500 different reasons for why you won’t hire someone all to cover up the fact that you simply don’t like a certain color of people. You could very well have 2 applicants, both who qualify, however one could be black and the other white.
Even if the black applicant has higher ratings, you could still LEGALLY hire the white guy simply because he qualifies as well. Do you get it now? How stupid do you think people really are? Without affirmative action, you actually believe that this wouldn’t have happened? Wow.
[/quote]
And so what if the White guy was legally hired. These kind of hiring decisions you are referring to happen everyday to people of all colors. People aren’t hired because of: the way they dress, their hair style, how they speak, how they carry themselves, their hygiene, etc. While most of these things don’t directly relate to the technical qualifications of the position, they do relate to how this person will fit in with the other employees, if they will represent the company well, how they will deal with the public, etc. bla, bla, bla
So should we have a racial quota for all groups of people who have been looked over for a job based on these subjective things? Why do only blacks get special treatment for being passed over for subjective reasons?
If this is the case, then every race, including those from eastern Europe should have affirmative action as we have ALL been passed over for jobs for lame ass reasons.
Yes, I know that happend to many races, not just black.
News flash, ANY one trying to get a job better dam well outshine the other applicants or his ass is out of luck. You can’t just show up and expect to get the job because you are, well you! No employer sees the real you and values you for just who you are, at least not a first.
True. However, if you look objectively at history in the US you will see that every race experienced some discrimination at some point in migrating to this country. And yet they didn’t need and extra handout and the discrimination faded away.
Are you saying that everyone just hates blacks more and for long than any other group?
No one is justifying anything. If blacks were shut out of business they would naturally not have the skills due to lack of experience. Then they would be behind others who were not shut out as much. It’s like going to another country and trying to speak the language as well as a native. Takes time and effort.
So I’m not saying it was the blacks fault for being shut out. It is just the reason they had less experience to start with. Again, not their fault. Get it now?
Dude, wake up man! I would love to go to work in jeans and flip-flops with my ball cap on backwards, but that wouldn’t cut it. The reality, FOR EVERYONE is that you have to play the game to succeed.
That is just the way it is for EVERYONE; black, white, blue, green, doesn’t matter. The people who own and run the companies set the rules. Either play by those rules or get in the welfare line.
This pride thing just gets you nowhere.
That’s one of those subjective things that keeps people down in all races.
Well, according to your 90’s study I statically would make more than you. Or are you now saying those stats are faulty.
“Potentially broke down”? So you really don’t know if you have benefited or not? How do you know it wasn’t just your own determination to succeed that was the factor?
The FACT is that many blacks have succeeded without any help at all. And the fact that they did do it by themselves, in spite of perceived racism, means that the rationale for affirmative action is somewhat suspect.
And yet there are many blacks who got into schools and did what they wanted before affirmative action. How the hell could that happen?
So it’s those Asians? who are racist. Those racist bastards! Who let them into the country?
All kidding aside, how did they get into school? Are you saying that Asians have experienced no racism? If they have, why did they not need affirmative action?
So you are saying that blacks are hated more than any other racial group? That seems very one-sided my friend. The real issue, that you seem to be avoiding is how other races (minorities) could achieve great things without any help at all? And also how many black achieved without any help at all?
That is the worthwhile discussion. Answer that and you will have the answer to whether affirmative action is still needed today.
[quote]chinadoll wrote:
Cultural norms, upbringing, personal experience and exposure or lack of exposure to racial hate/issues I believe are big factors.
Skimming through this forum, I find many peoples’ points interesting. Growing up in Hawaii, we are 100% sheltered from racism. I never heard a single racist remark in my life until at 20 years old.
I did a bit of work with a mainland bikini magazine, we were shooting on Waikiki Beach and a nice black elderly tourist couple were observing and inquiring, and the magazine people treated them differently than the white people, telling them to get away, and made a racial remark amongst themselves.
Needless to say, I ended up crying on the drive home, having never experienced something like that all my life, and that one experience has stuck with me to this day.
I believe in my own skewed experience being raised in Hawaii- a great melting pot- that upbringing and personal experience has much to do with a person’s view of race. It is virtually a non issue here. I’ll use my mom as an example of what kinds of lessons some of us are given here in regard to racism.
When I was around 9 years old, my mom decided to talk to me about racism. She said, “there are people in this world who don’t like other people because of their race,” my biggest question was “Why?”, then she explained this further and answered my many questions.
My racial extraction is mostly Chinese, and a bit of Hawaiian, French and Portuguese. She said (remember this is mom’s simplified explanation to a nine year old), “you can’t hate hispanic people, you are portuguese (I now know that portuguese is not hispanic); you can’t hate asians, you are asian; you can’t hate black people because they’re dark skinned, you are partly Hawaiian; you can’t hate samoans or tongans as you are polynesian; you can’t hate white people, you are part white.” And “you can’t hate any one, we are all brothers and sisters…we are all connected.”
I believe Hawaii is a different kind of place, where it’s part of the cultural norms to mix different races all in one pot of stew. Also, not growing up exposed to any kind of racial hate has a lot to do with the acceptance of different races.
jimmyjames66 wrote:
I am doing this paper for English class and am trying to find potential psychological factors that may lead people to hate. There are the obvious like a family’s influence on their children and extreme situations that can have an impact on one’s mindset. But this seems like such a broad topic and the influences for hatred seemed endless. Any thoughts?
[/quote]
Whatever you say babe. I always agree with hot women!