Psychology of Racism

Wreckless · December 7, 2005, 3:43pm

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
You’re not a racist for noticing color. You’re a moron for not noticing I notice color as well.

No - you only notice white people noticing color so that you can tell them how racisit it is to create a fence, or some liberal bullshit.

And I don’t have to insinuate that you’re a racist. You’ve made that perfectly clear in a number of posts.

I am not going to believe a goddman word you tell me without substantial proof. Prove it or else you are a fucking liar. I want specific quotes - and their supporting links - that prove ia am the racist you have said, or you are a fucking liar. I’m going to go with the fucking liar part because asshole pricks like you usually slink away and try to hide when faced with actually having to back anything up.

But DO tell: what “game” are blacks supposed to be playing to avoid being blacklisted?

Spend some time in the black community. Make a black friend. Then ask them. Your ignorance is greater than my desire to answer your question.

[/quote]

YOU were the first one to drop the word “racist”, not me.

And since you’re so big on substantial proof, why don’t you prove Walter Williams is one of the 10 most hated blacks in the US, by other blacks, like you claimed. Or else you’re a fucking liar. I want specific quotes and links mind you.

Now should I hold my breath?

Wreckless · December 7, 2005, 3:47pm

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
You’re not a racist for noticing color. You’re a moron for not noticing I notice color as well.

And I don’t have to insinuate that you’re a racist. You’ve made that perfectly clear in a number of posts.

But DO tell: what “game” are blacks supposed to be playing to avoid being blacklisted?

It’s become far too easy for some on the fringe left to scream the word “racist” without ever having to back it up or offer any sort of proof.

Some who run out of arguments simply fall back and scream racist. I guess it’s pretty easy…

If you think about the implication of the word “racist” it is very nasty indeed. And YOU throw it around as if it has no serious negative connotation.

Even the most staunch liberals on this board have never called rainjack a racist. And they have debated him at length on just about every topic that has come down the pike.

rainjack is clearly not a racist and everyone (perhaps even you) knows this.

You can apologize now, or never be taken seriously again on this forum!

[/quote]

Did you even bother to read what I posted? Or do you just hit the reply button in a knee-jerk reaction?

rainjack · December 7, 2005, 3:56pm

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
YOU were the first one to drop the word “racist”, not me.[/quote]

And I don’t have to insinuate that you’re a racist. You’ve made that perfectly clear in a number of posts.

I used the word racist to describe what you were implying and you replied with the above.

I asked for proof - and it seems you are now backing off because you can;t find any. It doesn’t suprise me at all that you would do this. I knew you were a fucking liar from the beginning. It is your MO to spew unsubstantiated bullshit, and then slink back into the darkness.

Accusing me of something that you have no proof of - especially something as serious as being a racist is the last straw. You will not get away this time. I promise you that.

No sir - I’m not playing that game. I asked you for proof that I am a racist. To try and turn the tables on me and ask for proof on an unrelated matter is pure chicken shit.

You do what you were told, and then I will entertain the notion of placating you straw-man attempts.

I will be waiting.

ZEB · December 7, 2005, 6:18pm

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
Did you even bother to read what I posted? Or do you just hit the reply button in a knee-jerk reaction?[/quote]

Yes, I read what you posted. You called rainjack a racist and you should now man up and apologize for it!

skinnygrowboy · December 7, 2005, 8:16pm

I’ve looked at a lot of philosophies on racism here and it looks like most of people’s knowledge came from what they’ve been told (by the media or whoever) more than what they’ve experienced.

Let me say first tht I am not a racist, but I’m also not stupid. After enough exposure, a person becomes conditioned to expect certain things, and this can foster negative feelings on either side.

From my personal experience:

I grew up with only a peanut field separating my parents’ house from the part of town where most of the blacks live. I had quite a few black friends in high school that I played football with.

One of them went in the army and two of them had opportunities for football scholarships to college–there were several others that I didn’t keep up with for a while. 15 years later all but one have been in prison for drugs, burglary, etc.

Several years ago, the a black family moved in on my father’s side of the peanut field near his home. I told him I would give it six months for a junk car to be jacked up on blocks in the yard. It took three.

When I lived in North Carolina, my wife (who is hot) was repeatedly harassed at grocery stores, etc. At one time, which was not an unusual situation, two guys stood outside the grocery stores shouting foul language and grabbing their dicks while she had our three year old son with her.

Every time these things happened, without exception, it was blacks.

When I went to college, I worked full time to pay for it. I would drive through the projects on my way to school and see college aged black kids sitting on cars with their brown bagged 40’s. They were required to make 5 less points on the ACT than me for admission and could go to school for free, but they wouldn’t do it. Now I’m told that I’ve had more opportunities.

At work if a black manager tells a white worker to empty the garbage it is becuase it’s full. If a white manager tells a black worker to empty the garbage, it’s because he’s trying to “bring up feelings during black history month.”

My wife was rejected from admission to a certain college program recently. Her black friends had lower GPA’s and lower scores on the “point system” that was used to determine admission. Every black girl got in, but the white one didn’t.

I could go on and on because I’ve seen it all my life. I’ve seen a few black people get screwed over and it wasn’t right then either. I’ve seen the word “ignorant” thrown around a lot here, but ignorance is not seeing what the hell is going on around you.

Professor_X · December 7, 2005, 10:08pm

I thought T-Nation screened out all Grand Wizards? Oh well.

thabigdon24 · December 7, 2005, 11:20pm

Skinny : I hope you and your wife were able to get into the programs you wanted to. If y’all weren’t its always easy to read a few study books on the ACT/SAT or gre/Gmat if your stuff isn’t up to par.

And yes, lowering standards for select groups is one way to encourage more of them to attend , this is also done with international students. As w/ black people , well they have only been allowed to go to colloge for just a few generations anyway.

We have affirmative action so that we can try to bring up certain groups of which african americans are one of. I personally think that in about 20 or 30 years after social inequities are less, that black people will be earning just as much as whites so we won’t need these kinds of programs forever.

If you really have had the unfortune of not being hired or your wife getting into said colleges because of affirmative action then its not impossible to fix. All you may need to do is up the entrance exam score or move to a better location.

Professor_X · December 8, 2005, 12:13am

[quote]thabigdon24 wrote:
Skinny : I hope you and your wife were able to get into the programs you wanted to. If y’all weren’t its always easy to read a few study books on the ACT/SAT or gre/Gmat if your stuff isn’t up to par.

And yes, lowering standards for select groups is one way to encourage more of them to attend , this is also done with international students. As w/ black people , well they have only been allowed to go to colloge for just a few generations anyway.

We have affirmative action so that we can try to bring up certain groups of which african americans are one of. I personally think that in about 20 or 30 years after social inequities are less, that black people will be earning just as much as whites so we won’t need these kinds of programs forever.

If you really have had the unfortune of not being hired or your wife getting into said colleges because of affirmative action then its not impossible to fix. All you may need to do is up the entrance exam score or move to a better location.[/quote]

Shouldn’t you have simply told him not to blame “the man” for his condition in life? I’m confused.

BorisTheSpider · December 8, 2005, 1:17am

[quote]skinnygrowboy wrote:
From my personal experience:

I grew up with only a peanut field separating my parents’ house from the part of town where most of the blacks live. I had quite a few black friends in high school that I played football with.

One of them went in the army and two of them had opportunities for football scholarships to college–there were several others that I didn’t keep up with for a while. 15 years later all but one have been in prison for drugs, burglary, etc.

Several years ago, the a black family moved in on my father’s side of the peanut field near his home. I told him I would give it six months for a junk car to be jacked up on blocks in the yard. It took three.

When I lived in North Carolina, my wife (who is hot) was repeatedly harassed at grocery stores, etc. At one time, which was not an unusual situation, two guys stood outside the grocery stores shouting foul language and grabbing their dicks while she had our three year old son with her.

Every time these things happened, without exception, it was blacks.

[/quote]

Dude, that’s poverty, not race.

thabigdon24 · December 8, 2005, 1:18am

For whoever is reading this i have known many different races growing up and the more i get to know them the more i like them. I have never met a dumb hispanic guy in my life. They work hard as heck and they have good family values b/c many hispanics are catholic and family is something that the U.S doesn’t seem to appreciate as much IMO. I’ve also known a lot of Black people b/c even though my family made a lot of money ( my dad is a medical doctor , and my mom is manager/RN so they do well )they chose to live in a working class area b/c my parents wanted us to grow up with all kinds of people. I’ve been around a lot of black people and i think they are not only smart but also african americans seem to value practicality more than whites, have a strong sense of right and wrong and don’t mind working hard. How are you going to make it w/ any job if you aren’t willing to put in the sweat time? Before you knock physical labor i’ve done my share of it in college and HS. I hope im not offending any Black or Hispanic people with this, but if racists can make up dumb stuff about other people than i would like to post positive things i see in others. BTW, people think that im part mexican b/c i look like my mom who has a lot of itialian and spainish ( spain spainish ) in her family.

The church group i was in , has a international student-oriented sub-group so almost half of my student church group-members were internationals. I got to meet a lot of people from around the world, and my college had a theatre-major exchange program w/ australia, and i think it also has a liberal arts and math exchange program w/ some japanese college ( i have seen a LOT of japanese math students b/c my major required 12 hours of math classes) where they take students for a year and certain courses will count towards credit in their home college. I got to meet a lot of them at parties where i was a frat officer and a member in the college’s world politics club. The college i went to has a decent global focus b/c its new president was born in south america. They were even cited in a national paper recently b/c hispanic immigrants that were also local college students were literally knocking on his door; were trying to get advice on getting a job after graduation , b/c not every student there is legal to work in the U.S , and every professional job will require citizenship or a green card i guess.

Im a big beleiver in putting my money where my mouth is too, my ex-girlfriend was an international student who has permanently relocated to the U.S., she is a chick that is going about to start as a manager in the office of some christian international aid organization- eventually she’ll be a pastor. She was/is half Indian ( the hot asian kind) and African so she’s got a great accent, she went to Africa and married some african fvck-tard ( most of
the people that are in this group marry international students or people because
they make their living aiding them but it also makes sense to put your money where your mouth is…) but when i saw her last she told me this in a way that she wishes i was with her. Dumbest decision in my life to give her up but she was pretty charismatic and intimidated the heck out of me , she’s obviously pastor material. I still keep in touch w/ email and im going to take her back if she will ever give me the chance( her marraige isn’t going well at all b/c she met this guy and married him in the span of a few months while working in africa and he’s an alchoholic which probably doesn’t sit well w/ her) and im going to move to the city she is in versus the smaller one i am in b/c she’s in the city where my family is, but anyway live and learn…

I have seen my black managers run circles around their white counterparts simply b/c they may have felt that they had to work harder at what they do and have their worked deemed as good.

Racism is dumb when you think about it. Only a fraction of the world is your race! If you aren’t seriously open to other people then you are missing out on a lot of things that make you a more well-rounded person , cultured and worldy person; esp since the world is becoming more and more multi-ethnic b/c of globalism.

How are you going to work with anybody that isn’t your own ethnic group if you are a racist? People will figure that out quick and won’t appreciate it.

i like rap music among other kinds, i used to have a black nanny when i was a kid,my first best friend in grade school was/is black im -i still talk to him and his family when im in my old town and people say that i act black sometimes and i like soul food now too. So im at least 1/8 black of course y’all can argue with this if you want to.

My brother and sister are a lot like me and also hang out with black people mostly, not that they care who you are but thats who they work with. We all are the blackest-acting white people you have ever met its funny. In fact my little brother just got finished cooking some soul food earlier tonite that he learned how to make when he went to a black friend’s thanksgiving. i liked the ox-tails with rice and gravy but passed on the nasty chicken necks. haha

If anybody is still reading this thread , my point through logic and experience is that racism is pointless and will probably hurt the quality of your life if you choose to be racist. Like my boy bob marley said we’re all one people

Even if im wrong , the U.S. is getting more global every day so we’re bound to be less racist so deal with it.

skinnygrowboy · December 8, 2005, 6:13am

Like I expected, my post was completely misinterpreted. The topic of this thread is the psychology of racism.

My point is that in some cases racism can be a conditioned response–experience brings negative (or positive) expectations automatically. (Just like Pavlov and his dogs.) I was explaining the concept from a white person’s perspective, but I’m sure there could be similar arguments from a black, hispanic, or whatever other racial perspective as well. I talked about this with one of my black friends a few months ago–he understood my point of view, and I understood his.

In response to some of the flaming posts:

According to these responses, apparently it’s OK for a person to be selected for or excluded from opportunity based solely on race, as long the target of the discrimination is white. You guys are the racists, not me.
My GMAT score was in the top 2% in the country so I’ve never had this sort of problem. My wife was not required to take standardized tests for what she was pursuing, but her grades were excellent.
It’s amusing (and typical) that if anyone tells the truth by stating uncomfortable facts, they are instantly labeled as stupid or evil (“Grand Wizard”).
Poverty is not an excuse for vulgar behavior, or crime when there are other opportunities available. Poverty is often a choice.

Enjoyed it, guys. Later.

Professor_X · December 8, 2005, 7:45am

[quote]skinnygrowboy wrote:
Like I expected, my post was completely misinterpreted. [/quote]

I seriously doubt anyone misinterpreted your point. Like you said, blacks harrassed your wife by grabbing their dicks, they put cars on blocks in their yard (even though I thought that particular negative stereotype was thrown at hispanics), and they kicked your wife out of a place in a college program. What was there to misinterpret? Blacks, bad…you, victim. Got it.

[quote]
My point is that in some cases racism can be a conditioned response–experience brings negative (or positive) expectations automatically. (Just like Pavlov and his dogs.) I was explaining the concept from a white person’s perspective,[/quote]

See, now I am really confused because how did you show a conditioned response in anything you wrote? The blacks you wrote about were acting with a conditioned response or you were?

[quote]
but I’m sure there could be similar arguments from a black, hispanic, or whatever other racial perspective as well. I talked about this with one of my black friends a few months ago–he understood my point of view, and I understood his.[/quote]

If I were talking to you and you began a rant like what you just wrote, I would tell you whatever it would take to shut you up so I could get on with my life. Don’t take a lack of argument for acceptance.

[quote]
In response to some of the flaming posts:

According to these responses, apparently it’s OK for a person to be selected for or excluded from opportunity based solely on race, as long the target of the discrimination is white. You guys are the racists, not me.[/quote]

No one wrote that. However, what always jumps out to me is how so many claim to know for sure that someone made a worse grade than them or that they just couldn’t measure up to them on an application when they rant that they were kicked out of a position. In your story, how is it your wife knew some others kid’s overall grades in detail? Unless your wife was handed her transcript, it is all “she said he said”. Is it impossible to you that your wife simply didn’t make the grade? If all black women got into that program, was it a minority based program? I would really love to know because to my knowledge, many schools/colleges (like Texas A&M Univ.) are still boasting a very large white population on campus in respect to any other ethnic group. How did your wife end up getting beat for a “college program” when there is that much opportunity available? Again, how does your wife know what anyone else scored?

[quote]
2. My GMAT score was in the top 2% in the country so I’ve never had this sort of problem. My wife was not required to take standardized tests for what she was pursuing, but her grades were excellent.[/quote]

What was she pursuing that required NO standardized testing? Had it ever occured to you that maybe she didn’t get in because of an educational background that excluded any standardized testing?

[quote]
3. It’s amusing (and typical) that if anyone tells the truth by stating uncomfortable facts, they are instantly labeled as stupid or evil (“Grand Wizard”).[/quote]

That isn’t the case at all. I called you a grand wizard (or whatever that position is called) because your entire post read as if blacks were the scum of the earth and invaded your home, education and marital life. You made no relation to concepts in society as a whole but only focused on race as if you personally were a victim in all cases. How do any of us know that anything you stated is FACT? You didn’t make even one universal relation to racism. You simply told us that you were being chased out of house and home by black people and that your wife can’t even get an education because of “those people”.

malonetd · December 8, 2005, 7:47am

[quote]skinnygrowboy wrote:
3. It’s amusing (and typical) that if anyone tells the truth by stating uncomfortable facts, they are instantly labeled as stupid or evil (“Grand Wizard”).
[/quote]

But the only “facts” you stated were experiences from your little corner of the country. Nobody doubts these things have happened to you, but are you trying to imply that an entire race of people acts a certain way because you have seen it so much in your lifetime?

thabigdon24 · December 8, 2005, 9:01am

[quote]skinnygrowboy wrote:
Like I expected, my post was completely misinterpreted. The topic of this thread is the psychology of racism.

My point is that in some cases racism can be a conditioned response–experience brings negative (or positive) expectations automatically. (Just like Pavlov and his dogs.) I was explaining the concept from a white person’s perspective, but I’m sure there could be similar arguments from a black, hispanic, or whatever other racial perspective as well. I talked about this with one of my black friends a few months ago–he understood my point of view, and I understood his.

In response to some of the flaming posts:

According to these responses, apparently it’s OK for a person to be selected for or excluded from opportunity based solely on race, as long the target of the discrimination is white. You guys are the racists, not me.
My GMAT score was in the top 2% in the country so I’ve never had this sort of problem. My wife was not required to take standardized tests for what she was pursuing, but her grades were excellent.
It’s amusing (and typical) that if anyone tells the truth by stating uncomfortable facts, they are instantly labeled as stupid or evil (“Grand Wizard”).
Poverty is not an excuse for vulgar behavior, or crime when there are other opportunities available. Poverty is often a choice.

Enjoyed it, guys. Later.[/quote]

Skinny - since you did well on the GMAT you’ve got the logic stuff they ask down. Im going to quote you "
I was explaining the concept from a white person’s perspective, but I’m sure there could be similar arguments from a black, hispanic, or whatever other racial perspective as well. "

Dude its not just arguements you presented you came across as totally hating black people. Since you did so well on the GMAT, from the above statements you would have to assume that
if you are white you should think poorly of black people, if black you should think poorly of white people, if hispanic… BTW, getting in the top 2% should qualify you for harvard thats above a 700 you should get into harvard business school easy.

Again, America is becoming more ethnic, and so is the world you can’t escape it. When you get older its going to suck for you.

Oh and one more thing, it is true that a few white people will be hurt by affirmative action, but these are only the poorest performing workers or the marginal students. You said that your wife couldn’t get into the school of her choice even though her grades were excellent which im paraphrasing. You would present a great case for the KKK to get pissed at except for the fact that affirmative action only takes the worst performing segment of the majority group out of consideration. Something makes me doubt this but hey its cool.

Its going to be a long life hating people.

Mad_Titan · December 8, 2005, 1:13pm

[quote]skinnygrowboy wrote:
I’ve looked at a lot of philosophies on racism here and it looks like most of people’s knowledge came from what they’ve been told (by the media or whoever) more than what they’ve experienced.