“The big lifts (powerlifting and Olympic lifting) with the big weights, within reason, will get you bigger, stronger, and faster than any machine in any facility in the world. It has always been true.”
Call me biased but I sincerely believe that for all newbies, starting with a background of either powerlifting or Olympic-style lifting will always be better than some pumping-style bodybuilding split. Of course, eventually, if physique is your goal, you’ll have to implement a good split. But the OP here can bench press how much? He needs to focus on the basic lifts to build a foundation. Plus, powerlifting and bodybuilding are complementary at the worst.
From the guy who’s mass program includes 50 rep sets of squats with bodyweight on the bar. And who has been quoted as saying you should never do sets of less than 10 in the back squat.
Just to clarify: I’m not suggesting Dan John is confused about his message, but that you are. The quote above makes no mention of rep ranges in any way. It’s an argument for the benefits of barbell movements over machines.
My point is that powerlifting and Olympic lifting training is superior to a beginner than bodybuilding training.
Also, come on… Dude, everyone who visits T-Nation has the same goal: Get big and strong. You pointed out that I didn’t understand OP’s goal. But I do. And it’s the same as everyone else’s goal in here. Get bigger and stronger.
And what better way to accomplish that than bumping up your lifting numbers?
Plus, I’m sure as heck that if OP came here and showed you the following program… Monday bench, Tuesday curls, Wednesday bench… You’d criticize him and tell him to work on legs.
I understand that people will have varying interpretations of the information they find from their own research, but I’m still surprised there are others here who can’t see… The… The wisdom of my words. I’m sorry. I know that sounds arrogant but it’s what I feel. A part of the T-Nation subculture is a deep reverence for squats and deadlifts and how to get both UP. How can that be not synonymous with OP’s goal?
And when I started to raise in more repetitions/8-10, and more/, the volume of muscles quickly began to increase. Some people tell me that this is a new stress for the body and that is the reason because by now I am usually trained in a smaller number of repetitions. Maybe so, but what I do know is that it’s nice to have progress in both the low and high numbers of repetitions. Even many programs of leading coaches here combine the two methods.
The bad thing with me is that I want to lose weight and basically take off the fat, and these methods inflate me even more
I am also aware that this is probably predominantly Sarkoplazmena hypertrophy due to faster volume uploading.
To be honest i hold a simular view point regarding novice lifters . But since I’m on flip phone I don’t have the time at the moment to go into full reasons.
I think we’re being SUPER silly when we consider any training that uses the squat, bench and deadlift to be powerlifting training and training that doesn’t use it to be bodybuilding training.
Squats, benches and deads are regular features in my training, and nothing I do is powerlifting. I’ve also used plenty of “bodybuilding moves” but my training isn’t bodybuilding training. I think the worse thing a novice could do at the start is powerlifting, weightlifting or bodybuilding training: a novice should lift weights and do other exercise.
I have a slight issue with this because of the reasons @T3hPwnisher states above. I don’t know what “powerlifting training” or “bodybuilding training” means, since competitors in those sports train in a variety of different ways. More importantly though, it’s not what you said. What you said was:
We all know, or at least think, that it is so that a novice should start with exercises that strengthen his whole body and are most close to the natural movements of the body. These moves are to squat, pull, push. On these exercises you should strive to become stronger at least at the beginning. And for this reason it is recommended to become strong on the squat, bench, chin, OH press, DL. When you reach a level, you can now specialize in more complex schemes.
I’m now exploring 3x5-9, hoping the former ups the max, and the latter builds some size. Might not be the fastest way to toss around X amount of kilos, but I surmise that I’ll get bigger and stronger.
Meh, my curent goals are to get smaller and healthier. If I had to put my goals in order it would be something like:
A) General health
B) Conditioning
C) Strength
D) Muscle Size
I wouldn’t automatically assume everyone is here to get bigger and stronger. Life has a way of adjusting your perspective.
OP, my recommendation would be to do westside 4 skinny bastards by Joe Defranco. It’s one of the best starter program, imo. 5/3/1 is also a good place to start.
Ok I think what’s going on might be a case of miscommunication all around. You being new on here it might do well to state your general stats and experience level.
He DID come on here with a program like that, and I told him to work on legs.
I think you’re confusing hitting 10 hard reps of an exercise with “pump work”. 10 reps are not pump work.
And I don’t think his entire program should be 4x10. I just think you’re kind of jumbling together a bunch of quotes and philosophies and not understanding them.
And to add, it’s fine that beginners work on heavy compound lifts to get strong. I’m really not against any of that. It’s just not an absolute thing. OP has gotten bigger than his first picture. He did it how he did it. His lifts all went up too. There’s another guy in another thread who’s gotten a LOT bigger doing leg press and smith bench. I don’t really care how people get stronger, I just don’t tell people that “this way won’t work, this is much better”.
Two things I can prove if pressed. First is my 205-pound clean and jerk at 190 bodyweight, age 19. Second is my 405 squat (Olympic-style with a pause at the bottom) at age 24 four years ago with super fat physique of 230. I have both those in YouTube. Some things I can’t prove are my 275-pound bench press and 455-pound deadlift. I am currently aged 28…
I disagree… A set of ten is pump work. lol. At the heaviest, that’s like what? 70% of your 1RM? Dude, I have to disagree. THAT’S pump work. I used to do a modified GVT that’s ten sets of 6 reps and even then that’s pump work. The weight was probably my 10RM for the whole session of 10x6.
Okay, I guess it’s warranted I establish my definitions.
I define strength training (whether powerlifting or Olympic-style lifting) as the kind of training that prioritizes the appropriate movements into improving your numbers on them. Despite the muscle component, the lifter in such a training program must take into consideration the neural aspect of it all.
That’s it. It means just because you have a deadlift in your program DOES NOT mean you are powerlifting.
Also… Sorry. I really did have the impression that you were implying that the 4x10 set and rep scheme is superior. lol. Me and my comprehension skills. lmao
What else can I say…
Oh yeah. THANKS. I know you didn’t mean to compliment me but I pride myself in being a walking encyclopedia of knowledge. lol. I’m talking about when you said I’m jumbling together a bunch of random quotes and philosophies. lol. I didn’t even use Google for them.
No hard feelings either way, I’m certainly not trying to attack you. But hitting your 10RM isn’t pump work. 20 rep squats aren’t pump work either. Do your true 20RM for 20 reps. Pump work is just pumping blood into the muscle. Hammering 10 hard ass reps with heavy weight is not pump work. We’ll just have to agree to disagree here.
