The info presented in the new Appetite for Construction about pre/post-workout nutrition was pretty sweet.Does anyone use a specific pre-workout drink? Tell us what you use and about the results.
Peace
I’m going to use Surge as the article suggested starting Monday- scoop and a half sipped before and during training, then a scoop and a half after.
John dropped this info on the staff a few weeks ago. I started splitting my Biotest Surge up into two drinks and packing one to the gym with me in a Gatorade bottle (nice wide mouth, easy to scoop powder into). The results-- better pumps and better overall workout. Plus all the usual rapid recovery stuff that comes with Surge.
After training, I drive home and take the other half of my dose. And just in case Dr. Kinakin knows what he’s talking about (which is likely), I “chew” the first few mouthfuls. See the “Bodybuilder, Heal Thyself” article if you have no idea what I’m talking about here.)
Traditionally, low glycemic carbs have been recommended pre-workout, so as to maintain stable blood sugar levels. Would the use of ‘Surge’ pre-workout not cause a crash during training because of the insulin response?
Stu- Good question. Maybe John will have time to answer. Until then, I can tell you that I haven’t experienced any crash, but keep in mind this is a very watered down mix (half a dose in a 32oz of water)and it’s just sipped throughout training, not slugged down all at once. Now, a full dose with less water chugged down all at once always gives me that “high” feeling, sort of a pleasant stupor. Makes me say ‘dude’ alot and dig out my old checkered Vans. 
I like to eat a protein-fat meal as my last meal pre-workout. It is typically about 40 g of protein and 15-20 g of fat from whey protein, flax oil and hard boiled eggs. I like to consume this 1.5 hours before my workout. Are there any concerns with using a surge type beverage only 1.5 hours after this type of protein-fat meal?
Very good question Stu…I was thinking the same thing… I had seen a study in a recent mag touting the effects of a pro/carb drink before training. I do have a few questions though myself… I’m wondering what JMb thinks about eating a pro/fat meal before training to use fat as fuel…this is what i ahd been doing but the high lipid levels in the blood don’t seem like they’d mix well with an insulin surge. What baout the bcaa glutamine drink during training …nixed? I had been using a rather expensive glutamine bcaa mix during training and surge after…will the carbs pre workout affect fat metabolism/? Finally, should we increase the number of carbs in our second postworkout meal since we reduced them from the Surge. Im sorry for all teh questions but my mind is running and interest is peaked.Thanks…Mike
checkered vans,fuck i haven’t seen them in ages.
i think the excercise itself blunts the release of insulin.
Would having a scoop of whey with some high-glycemic carbs (dextrose, maltodextrin mix) pre-workout then Surge post-workout work as well? Would the whey be out of your stomach an hour later before taking Surge? Just curious, since I only take a 2-scoop serving of Surge (I’m only 160lbs, plus it’s kinda expensive up here in Canada), and it seems like splitting it might reduce the recovery benefits (a half serving for me is about 12g protein, 5 or 6 of the extra amino acids and about 25 carb)?
I had the same question about the high glycemic carbs before exercise. Didn’t john B. say to drink it before working out rather that siping the drink threw out the work out. Chris you wouldn’t know any where that sells checkered Vans would you? I love those things.
Im glad you enjoyed my appetite column. Look for 2 new ones very soon in the next two print mags. About this thread, there is some good feedback here. But before I answer these questions I want you to remember that I know nutritional biochemistry and physiology quite well (especially during and after exercise). Keeping that in mind, you can assume that I always consider things like insulin response, etc. before making statements/recommendations. So one basic assumption you can make and feel comfortable with is that if I make a recommendation, it’s based on producing the optimal benefit without any (or at least with only minimal) negative consequences.
With that said, Id like to address Stu's question. Stu, in this study, there was a rise in insulin when the drink was taken immediately prior to exercise. But that rise was comparatively small when compared with what we see between meals. Feeding during exercise blunts the insulin response when compared to a normal feeding. Having some insulin is good during exercise so that we can take up carbs into the muscle for fuel. In this study they measured insulin during the exercise and Im confident that the rise will in no way negatively affect performance. You have to remember that there is a complex hormonal cascade during exercise and the powerful catecholamines (epi, norepi) are causing fuel mobilization like crazy and are creating massive stimulatory effects. A small dumping of insulin will in no way, shape, or form, overcome these powerful stimulatroy hormones. Also, there is a massive flux of glucose so that the liver is always pumping it out and the muscles are taking it up, much moreso than at rest (during this time blood sugar is maintained).
In the literature, a "crash" associated with High GI carbs is due to feedings about 1 hour before exercise. In this situation, insulin goes way up, carbs disappear from the blood within 30-60 minutes, and by the time you get to the gym, you're feeling sluggish due to low blood sugar. However, if you have high GI immediately before or even during training, the exercise bout prevents this from occurring due to what I mentioned above. I hope this clears things up.
For the pre-workout fat feeders, I have a column coming out that disusses when you should eat which kinds of meals and why. But for a quick glimpse, I recommend having a protein and fat meal about 1-2 hrs before training. Then taking the pre workout drink during training. There are no concerns with this protocol whatsoever. The p+f meal stabalizes blood glucose and you feel great going into your session. Then the pre-workout meal helps out with protein synthesis. In this scenario you may actually build muscle during training!
About using fat as fuel. During weight lifting, it just doesnt happen too much. Only carbs can fuel the muscular contractions. Between sets, however, some fat metabolism may be occurring. But I encourage you to stop thinking about shifting fuel utilization DURING exercise (unless you’re an endurance athlete). You cant make a big enough dent regardless of what you do.
If I could give you a piece of advice it would be this...worry about protein balance during exercise and body composition the rest of the day. I think everyone (whether gaining weight or losing weight) should drink a pre/post workout drink during the 1 hour of training and then take care of fat loss during the other 23 hours in the day. When you put it into perspective, how much extra fat could you posibly lose even if you could increase fat oxidation during exercise. Probably only a couple of grams a day. However, by not focussing on protien balance, you end up seriously halting muscle building processes and recovery.
What’s a print mag? Hehe…just kidding. John, keep the good stuff coming. It’s much appreciated by those of us who have little time to review such literature on our own.
John thank you for clearing some of that up. I have a couple other questions I was hoping you could take the time to answer. 1. I recently bought an amino/glutamine mix should i just add carbs to that and use 2 scoops of surge after…If not when could i use this mix? 2. …should we increase carbs and protein in the 2nd post workout meal to take advantadge of the insulin sensitivity? Lastly, does this mean that your post w/o puzzle articles are outdated now or would you still reccomend .8/.4 after lifting along with a pre workout drink? It seems like this new approach would actually be better for body comp since you are keeping carbs around training. thank you very much in advance…Mike
John, check your mail. Remember, I’ll always love you. lol
Just for the info, could one of our college T-bros. look up the study: Journal of Physiology - Endocrinology and Metabolism (281: E197-E206, 2001) an respond with the exact formulation used in the study. I’ll still split the Surge but, I gots to know.
JMB “About using fat as fuel. During weight lifting, it just doesnt happen too much.” Well what about using MCTs before workouts, i have never done it, but there are some big proponents of it (like Hatfield- i think?)