Potential for Average Powerlifter

Training Powerlifting
81

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I’m all for “the power of the mind”, but some people here are being unrealistic. The average man is 5’9", 180lbs of coke drinking, shit eating, over worked and undernourished mess. This man probably didn’t participate in athletics past the jv [or bench warmer in varsity] level of highschool. He’s got other obligitions in his life to worry about, but is willing to give pl’ing his all. Considering he’s a somewhat pudgy 5’9", 180, we’ll assume he’s ecto/endo, or skinny fat. Through optimal the optimal training and nutrition that his schedule will allow, and the benefits he can reap from these dictated by his genetics, we’ll assume he’s built himself back up to a lean and stronge[er] 180lbs [And if this sounds small, a muscular 180 at 5’9" is actually pretty jacked, especially by “average” standards]. At this height and weight with average levers, a 300/400/500 total would be outstanding. Anything much past that would put his genetics above average.[/quote]

This mindset is the key to mediocrity. I was just saying the potential of someone isnt to be judged through a combination of math and assumptions.

Ive never heard a story of someone who stopped at nothing to get what he wanted but then because of his genes wasnt able to complete it.

Ive heard many stories of people giving up and using copouts and this doesnt just apply to training but in anything in life.

There is a major difference between genetically not being able to do something and not wanting to. There are myriads of examples of people missing limbs or senses, having learning disabilities, that stomped even the most gifted even at absurd disadvanteges.

that hypothetical average sized powerlifter you said is able to give his all to lifting? well then that means hes capable of a hell of a lot more then 300/400/500. it depends on what hes willing to do, is he willing to gain 100-150lbs of bodyweight? is he willing to take drugs? is he willing to drive far to train with very strong people to help him?

If he is then his potential is extremely high if hes not then all it shows is that he isnt willing to do whatever it takes, which is ok as long as hes doing whatever it takes via some other faucet in life. I doubt he is though, the loser mentality is very popular nowadays.[/quote]

For some, they want to be a winner at other things than PL. Some people will workout 3x a week 45 minutes each wo so they can be super-dad and be awsome at their career too. Nothing wrong with that, just a matter of priorities. [/quote]

I totally aggree, I personally would never take first priority but if I did all I am saying is that I wouldnt put limits on my potential because it really is unknown and cant be figured out through speculation or a simple educated guess.

82

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

And what the fuck is “optimal training and nutrition”…is this just some abstract idea we are arguing? Because the amount of people who have “optimal training and nutrition” for their entire weightlifting career is somewhere around 0%
[/quote]

This thread suffers from a lack of agreed definitions. I asked the OP for a definition of “average” - no reply. And I’m not sure if we can even discuss the effect of optimal training and nutrition without clarifying what that actually means.

83

The wood chuck is a master wood-chucker caus it must chuck wood every damn day.

84

The average man training optimally for 15 years I think would be an outstanding elite lifter.

If bodyweight is up in the 200-250 range, I would say there is no reason why 600/405/650 completely raw couldnt be accomplished. Anything below that with 15+ years of well organized focused work would be surprising to me.

I am someone who considers themselves to have some natural talent in lifting, as I always had big legs that got stronger lifting legs just once a week along with being explosive, but I think genetics dictate your start more so than your path. A guy like me who is naturally a good squatter starts squatting and the first time i did it at 15 i did 265, then worked from there. While someone less genetically gifted for that lift may start lifting as a 20 year old and first max out at 165.

But from there the sweet formula of time + work = results will take into effect. I think the biggest obstacle is form and ego. I’ve seen so many athletes not progress at all because they arent willing to start from the bottom with legit form. If you try to fool yourself from the beginning you will be running in place

85

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]spar4tee wrote:
Baring mental retardation, anyone can get a PhD.[/quote]

Complete bullshit.

Easy for you to say when you are barely out of high school and don’t even have a college degree never mind a PhD.

It is ignorant and disrespectful to say this sort of stuff, but is typical of kids who think they know everything about how life works.[/quote]

+1

I’ve known plenty of people that couldn’t get a college degree, much less a fucking PHD…I’m surprised your statement generated that much dissention…

But then again, we also have guys here who think just anybody can total elite…

[/quote]
Remember though that wasn’t my full statement. I provided more clarity in my response.

86

[quote]mkral55 wrote:
Just a question on the side: how many people here think (or will admit) that they have good/great genetics?

Personally i think mine are a fair bit above average.[/quote]
You tell me

87

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
And what the fuck is “optimal training and nutrition”…is this just some abstract idea we are arguing? Because the amount of people who have “optimal training and nutrition” for their entire weightlifting career is somewhere around 0%
[/quote]

Yes. Yes it is. I thought that was the whole point to this thread? It doesn’t matter if optimal training and nutrition exist or not, that’s not the question posed. You can’t exactly have a discussion about genetics when you don’t keep all external variables constant. Would you feel better if completely “non-optimal” parameters were set instead?

88

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
But then again, we also have guys here who think just anybody can total elite…
[/quote]

Maybe you weren’t talking about me, but my statement was basically that you can total elite without having anything special in the genetics department. I guess that sort of means “anybody” can total elite, but you left out the caveat of “as long as they work hard enough for long enough”. I mean Christ man read your own training log. You’re one of the people who makes me believe it.

89

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I’m all for “the power of the mind”, but some people here are being unrealistic. The average man is 5’9", 180lbs of coke drinking, shit eating, over worked and undernourished mess. This man probably didn’t participate in athletics past the jv [or bench warmer in varsity] level of highschool. He’s got other obligitions in his life to worry about, but is willing to give pl’ing his all. Considering he’s a somewhat pudgy 5’9", 180, we’ll assume he’s ecto/endo, or skinny fat. Through optimal the optimal training and nutrition that his schedule will allow, and the benefits he can reap from these dictated by his genetics, we’ll assume he’s built himself back up to a lean and stronge[er] 180lbs [And if this sounds small, a muscular 180 at 5’9" is actually pretty jacked, especially by “average” standards]. At this height and weight with average levers, a 300/400/500 total would be outstanding. Anything much past that would put his genetics above average.[/quote]

This mindset is the key to mediocrity. I was just saying the potential of someone isnt to be judged through a combination of math and assumptions.

Ive never heard a story of someone who stopped at nothing to get what he wanted but then because of his genes wasnt able to complete it.

Ive heard many stories of people giving up and using copouts and this doesnt just apply to training but in anything in life.

There is a major difference between genetically not being able to do something and not wanting to. There are myriads of examples of people missing limbs or senses, having learning disabilities, that stomped even the most gifted even at absurd disadvanteges.

that hypothetical average sized powerlifter you said is able to give his all to lifting? well then that means hes capable of a hell of a lot more then 300/400/500. it depends on what hes willing to do, is he willing to gain 100-150lbs of bodyweight? is he willing to take drugs? is he willing to drive far to train with very strong people to help him?

If he is then his potential is extremely high if hes not then all it shows is that he isnt willing to do whatever it takes, which is ok as long as hes doing whatever it takes via some other faucet in life. I doubt he is though, the loser mentality is very popular nowadays.[/quote]

You just threw in a whole bunch of variables that are in NO WAY average. The average man won’t be willing to juice. The average man would not be willing to gain an extra 100-150lbs, never mind the fact that his frame couldn’t support that much extra weight. No offense, but you’re a big guy who got strong quickly and ate like shit while remaining pretty lean. That’s not meant to knock your work ethic, but you can’t speak on average progress as it relates to the gym. Again, a 300/400/500 combo from the average guy is strong.

90

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
You just threw in a whole bunch of variables that are in NO WAY average.[/quote]

Which is literally the entire point. The only average variable is genes.

91

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
You just threw in a whole bunch of variables that are in NO WAY average.[/quote]

Which is literally the entire point. The only average variable is genes.[/quote]

That makes literally no sense. The proposed question was “what could the average person attain with optimal programming and nutrition”. Adding steroids or the ability to gain 100+ lbs is in no way average.

92

[quote]csulli wrote:

That’s way low for what I think the OP is asking. A person with average genetics/potential for powerlifting who is smart and diligent with his training can expect “lifetime” best lifts that are quite high I believe.

Let’s say you’re like 200lbs or something. 600-700 dead, 500-600 squat, and over 400 bench. I think that barring injury and with enough work, those numbers are achievable no matter what.[/quote]

This sounds about right to me.

93

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
You just threw in a whole bunch of variables that are in NO WAY average.[/quote]

Which is literally the entire point. The only average variable is genes.[/quote]

That makes literally no sense. The proposed question was “what could the average person attain with optimal programming and nutrition”. Adding steroids or the ability to gain 100+ lbs is in no way average.[/quote]

Sorry, you’re right; steroids wasn’t supposed to be one of the variables.

94

[quote]mkral55 wrote:
Just a question on the side: how many people here think (or will admit) that they have good/great genetics?

Personally i think mine are a fair bit above average.[/quote]

I try not to think about shit that I can’t do anything about.

95

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

Ive never heard a story of someone who stopped at nothing to get what he wanted but then because of his genes wasnt able to complete it.[/quote]

I’m selling a bridge you can cross whenever you want, it’s just $19.95.

96

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
TROLLING 101:

  1. Post inflammatory thread to which there is no answer.
  2. Never reply in thread.
  3. ???
  4. Profit![/quote]

Chill. Not trolling, just took me a while to read all of this.

97

[quote]RonSwanson wrote:
Assuming that training and nutrition were optimal, what kind of raw and natural lifetime bests could be expected from an average male? Better yet, what numbers could be achievable for almost any male given that they trained and ate optimally? I know this is hard to pin down, but its an interesting question to ponder for those who might not have the best genetics.[/quote]

Understand you are asking this in a PL thread. Which would make it about
190-205 person
405 Bench
600 Squat
700 Deadlift

ONLY assuming training specifically for power lifting for over 10+ years. This includes proper planning over the years of hypertrophy training, power, max lifts, and body growth years. This would only be MAX’s and he probably wouldn’t be able to do it too long.

Assuming somebody who works out regularly hard training to look good and be strong

365 Bench
495 Squat
625 Dead

98

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I’m all for “the power of the mind”, but some people here are being unrealistic. The average man is 5’9", 180lbs of coke drinking, shit eating, over worked and undernourished mess. This man probably didn’t participate in athletics past the jv [or bench warmer in varsity] level of highschool. He’s got other obligitions in his life to worry about, but is willing to give pl’ing his all. Considering he’s a somewhat pudgy 5’9", 180, we’ll assume he’s ecto/endo, or skinny fat. Through optimal the optimal training and nutrition that his schedule will allow, and the benefits he can reap from these dictated by his genetics, we’ll assume he’s built himself back up to a lean and stronge[er] 180lbs [And if this sounds small, a muscular 180 at 5’9" is actually pretty jacked, especially by “average” standards]. At this height and weight with average levers, a 300/400/500 total would be outstanding. Anything much past that would put his genetics above average.[/quote]

This mindset is the key to mediocrity. I was just saying the potential of someone isnt to be judged through a combination of math and assumptions.

Ive never heard a story of someone who stopped at nothing to get what he wanted but then because of his genes wasnt able to complete it.

Ive heard many stories of people giving up and using copouts and this doesnt just apply to training but in anything in life.

There is a major difference between genetically not being able to do something and not wanting to. There are myriads of examples of people missing limbs or senses, having learning disabilities, that stomped even the most gifted even at absurd disadvanteges.

that hypothetical average sized powerlifter you said is able to give his all to lifting? well then that means hes capable of a hell of a lot more then 300/400/500. it depends on what hes willing to do, is he willing to gain 100-150lbs of bodyweight? is he willing to take drugs? is he willing to drive far to train with very strong people to help him?

If he is then his potential is extremely high if hes not then all it shows is that he isnt willing to do whatever it takes, which is ok as long as hes doing whatever it takes via some other faucet in life. I doubt he is though, the loser mentality is very popular nowadays.[/quote]

You just threw in a whole bunch of variables that are in NO WAY average. The average man won’t be willing to juice. The average man would not be willing to gain an extra 100-150lbs, never mind the fact that his frame couldn’t support that much extra weight. No offense, but you’re a big guy who got strong quickly and ate like shit while remaining pretty lean. That’s not meant to knock your work ethic, but you can’t speak on average progress as it relates to the gym. Again, a 300/400/500 combo from the average guy is strong.[/quote]

Lol dont worry i dont take offense to anything

99

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:

[quote]mkral55 wrote:
Just a question on the side: how many people here think (or will admit) that they have good/great genetics?

Personally i think mine are a fair bit above average.[/quote]

I try not to think about shit that I can’t do anything about.[/quote]

I hear ya there. It just seems to me that theres a lot of people on both sides, the guys with bad genetics using it as a crutch/excuse, and the guys with good genetics waving it off like its a non-factor.

100

No one should use bad or average genetics as an excuse. If you work extremely hard (and do it smart) you’ll end up far above average on the lifting scale. Even those with shit genetics will be better than the average gym goer if they work hard. They just won’t ever be a world champion. World champions are those who worked hard AND have great genetics. But that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t work hard and be the best you can be.