[quote]DaveForner wrote:
2) People with the best genetics. So, if you had the absolute best genetics for strength gain, but you had the best training, nutrition and environment, what kind of numbers would you put up? This is likely the group that your world record holders (and I’m considering this actual world records, not world records in a certain fed) would fall into.
People with average genetics. So, if you had the “average” genetics for strength gain, but you had the best training, nutrition and environment, what kind of numbers would you put up? This would be the “average joe/bro/shmo” with the best training, nutrition and environment. Fully optimized variables (other than genetics), what sort of numbers? This is likely, in my opinion, where many top lifters in a country would fall. But not always.
[/quote]
[quote]csulli wrote:
First of all, if you want to use a single number, use 1600. I gave a range of between 1500 and 1700, and you constantly chose the very top.
Second of all, I would say Big Ben has amazing genetics, because he got over 1700 IN HIS EARLY 20’s!!! He is in a rare and elite and exclusive club because of how hard he works at it, but I would say genetics come into play getting there that quickly. I stand by my statement that the “average bro” can get pretty close to 1700 total, but he will probably be in his mid fucking 30’s. By the time Ben Rice is in his mid 30’s what do you think his total will be? Fucking a lot better.[/quote]
I am using 1700 cos that’s what you said. If you want to use 1600 that’s what you should have started with.
I am in my mid to late 20s. College gym, famous PL gym for around 2 years, famous BB gym for around 2 years, probably trained in 20 different commercial gyms ranging from day pass to over a year. My profile says 21, I just opened the tab and clicked the first date.
If Ben Rice stays at 198, his total is not going to be hundreds of pounds different 10 years from now assuming he stays drug free. And he is the absolute genetic elite. How can you not see that? Just look at all the WR’s of the last 60 years. He can DL around 720 I think, you think he is ever gonna DL 850 natural at 198? Seriously?
As for STB - I find the guys log genuinely inspirational and extremely helpful. However, he also has amazing genetics. This is shown in the simple fact he had a 800 DL in his mid 20s. No doubt he works amazingly hard etc, I am not belittling the guy in ANY way. But facts are facts.
The day I stepped under a squat rack, I worked up to squatting 135x2, on the 3rd rep I got pinned.
That was the day I decided I’m going to lift big weights.
I’m going to total elite, fuck you all who don’t think so.
[quote]DaveForner wrote:
Everyone can get a PhD with a little hard work.[/quote]
LOL!!
The rest of your post wasn’t bad.
[/quote]
This isn’t funny. Baring mental retardation, anyone can get a PhD provided they commit and their program isn’t ridiculously. x2 on wtf is advanced mathematics. Most doctorate mathematical research is based around number theory (irrational numbers, higher order dimension calculus, trig proofs, etc.).
[quote]Zerpp wrote:
The day I stepped under a squat rack, I worked up to squatting 135x2, on the 3rd rep I got pinned.
That was the day I decided I’m going to lift big weights.
I’m going to total elite, fuck you all who don’t think so.
[quote]yolo84 wrote:
I am using 1700 cos that’s what you said. If you want to use 1600 that’s what you should have started with.[/quote]
From my very first post in the thread:
[quote]csulli wrote:
Let’s say you’re like 200lbs or something. 600-700 dead, 500-600 squat, and over 400 bench. I think that barring injury and with enough work, those numbers are achievable no matter what.[/quote]
Low end: 600+500+400 = 1500
High end: 700+600+400 = 1700
I admit the bench weight is kinda nebulous, but whatever.
[quote]yolo84 wrote:
If Ben Rice stays at 198, his total is not going to be hundreds of pounds different 10 years from now assuming he stays drug free. And he is the absolute genetic elite. How can you not see that? Just look at all the WR’s of the last 60 years. He can DL around 720 I think, you think he is ever gonna DL 850 natural at 198? Seriously?[/quote]
I’m not sure anybody has put up an 850+ deadlift or a 1000+ squat without taking a little something. But regardless, you are displaying a complete lack of understanding for what I am saying. I give up on you.
[quote]Zerpp wrote:
The day I stepped under a squat rack, I worked up to squatting 135x2, on the 3rd rep I got pinned.
That was the day I decided I’m going to lift big weights.
I’m going to total elite, fuck you all who don’t think so.
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
Baring mental retardation, anyone can get a PhD.[/quote]
Complete bullshit.
Easy for you to say when you are barely out of high school and don’t even have a college degree never mind a PhD.
It is ignorant and disrespectful to say this sort of stuff, but is typical of kids who think they know everything about how life works.[/quote]
I just graduated in May with an Honors BSc in Biology, with a 4.0 final year, 3.8-3.9 overall degree. I declined starting an MSc in order to work for a year and apply to other schooling options. I’ve worked in research for 3 years, and I know some people working towards an MSc or PhD that are certainly not on the highest of intelligence levels, but are just very hard working people. In MOST fields, a PhD is readily attainable if you want to put in 4-6 years (past the initial 4 years for BSc) of toiling away in a lab for ~10 hours a day.
This doesn’t take anything away from people with PhD’s. Saying you worked extremely hard for something shouldn’t be an insult. Being able to put that kind of work in doesn’t appeal to everyone though.
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
Baring mental retardation, anyone can get a PhD.[/quote]
Complete bullshit.
Easy for you to say when you are barely out of high school and don’t even have a college degree never mind a PhD.
It is ignorant and disrespectful to say this sort of stuff, but is typical of kids who think they know everything about how life works.[/quote]
You chopped my statement up and completely altered it’s meaning and tone. I provided three modifiers.
The prospective student is of at least slightly higher than average intelligence.
He/she is committed to the goal of obtaining the PhD is willing to put in the work.
The prospective program doesn’t exceed the realm of his/her pronounced ability.
This sufficiently discounts all extraneous variables that would otherwise disqualify the prospect of obtaining a PhD. It’s basically the same as replacing “anyone” with “any moderately intelligent person with the time and drive who isn’t going for something overwhelming irrelevant and transcendent of his/her undergraduate and graduate study”.
The “typical of kids who think they know everything about how life works” remark was a tad unnecessary and is a very popular and shallow statement of dissent used by older parties. Life has patterns like everything else. These patterns are transparent and not hidden. I’ve made more costly life mistakes than most people over twice my age. We are all ignorant because our perspectives are more blind than our eyes are. You speak of high school as though it somehow demerits me. I prefer to focus on variables over which I have control. Like I said, I’ve never claimed perfection, immanence, or omniscience.
If you took this as meaning that anyone that fails to get a PhD is retarded, then yes, it would be a stupid thing to say, but that’s not what I posted at least not the point I wanted to convey. I won’t take responsibility for one’s interpretation of my words, but I will take responsibility for my words. Always account for the invariable hint of internet sarcasm.
[quote]Zerpp wrote:
The day I stepped under a squat rack, I worked up to squatting 135x2, on the 3rd rep I got pinned.
That was the day I decided I’m going to lift big weights.
I’m going to total elite, fuck you all who don’t think so.
I think so, don’t know who it is, but a dark ninja? probably be done in seconds.[/quote]
If you don’t who DarkNinjaa is, I don’t know what to tell you.
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
If you took this meaning that anyone that fails to get a PhD is retarded, then yes, it would be a stupid thing to say, but that’s not what I posted at least not the point I wanted to convey. [/quote]
That’s not how I read it. My interpretation of your argument was that you were claiming any human is capable of obtaining a PhD unless they are mentally retarded. I strongly disagree, it and other things in life, are not as simple as want it and work hard and you can get it.
I didn’t mean to insult you, if that’s how you took my post. You are a smart guy. My point was it really IS easy to look at life in black and white at a young age. I did it myself. It’s natural.
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
If you took this meaning that anyone that fails to get a PhD is retarded, then yes, it would be a stupid thing to say, but that’s not what I posted at least not the point I wanted to convey. [/quote]
That’s not how I read it. My interpretation of your argument was that you were claiming any human is capable of obtaining a PhD unless they are mentally retarded. I strongly disagree, it and other things in life, are not as simple as want it and work hard and you can get it.
I didn’t mean to insult you, if that’s how you took my post. You are a smart guy. My point was it really IS easy to look at life in black and white at a young age. I did it myself. It’s natural. [/quote]
The point though isn’t so much who will but rather who can. Remember I accounted for the grey area as well as displayed that the product of my modifiers wasn’t simply everyone who isn’t retarded.
I agree with Loftearman. Dedication and consistency are primary reasons for any athlete to achieve great results. The average man title is deceptive because taking up powerlifting and sticking with it is not average. The average gym goer is not in to lifting huge weights using competition form and their top numbers on any lift is not their primary function for being at the gym.
Most guys in any commercial gym concentrate on the bench and they think 315 is huge and few make it. But the reality is a 315 bench is not that great for any powerlifting male who’s been lifting for more than a few years. Forget the average man squat and deadlift because those lifts don’t appeal to average guys. So what can the average man lift-the sky is the limit-but the mind must be concentrated on the sky. All depends on the person.
[quote]gorillavanilla wrote:
So what can the average man lift-the sky is the limit-but the mind must be concentrated on the sky.[/quote]
So do you think every man is equally capable of running a sub 2.30 marathon or a 30 minute 10km, or a sub 10 hour Ironman - none of which are remotely world class times?
You think genetics do not exist when applied to athletic ability? (Barring world class, professional performance).
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
Elite is only the beginning IMO[/quote]
Out of interest what are your current PBs and what are your ultimate goals?
I know you are very strong and young and have great genetics and application, so you for sure are the kind of guy who can make this sort of statement, and I am honestly just interested (not “calling you out” on it).