How much of a person’s calories/macro’s do you think can be optimally loaded during the post workout window? I’ve heard it said that you can’t eat enough during this time but how much is enough?
As an example for discussion let’s say a person weighs 200lbs eats 400 carbs, 200 protein, and 100 fat each day. Consider said person trying to bulk while minimizing fat gain.
Could this person optimally eat Half there protien/carbs (200cho,100p) during the immediate post window (1-2 hours post)?
From what I’ve read—anywhere from 25-30% of your daily calories/protein should come within 3 hours of your workout. 3 hours isn’t an absolute, but it’s a goal to shoot for. Your protein needs are increased for at least 24 hours post workout so keep it coming for the rest of the day. From my experience the more you can eat in your two post workout meals the better.
As per the research on the subject, you probably don’t need to consume all that much food post-exercise.
In studies they have found 35g of carbohydrates and 6g or essential amino acids sufficient for getting the response you’re looking for. If you aren’t buying the small amount of protein check out the small amount found in Surge. Science has confirmed that you don’t really need that much. You could also repeat a similar meal up to about 3 hours post-training. HOWEVER, a study by Tipton et al, suggests that a PRE-workout meal may be better for inducing muscle hypertrophy. If you were cutting I’d say avoid it as you might want to increase your fat use during exercise. Being that you’re in a mass phase the pre-workout shake may be a good idea.
BTW, here’s the reference for the study I mentioned. (Just in case anyone cares)
Am. J. Physiol. Endocrinol. Metab. 281: E197-E206, 2001.
Studies, studies, studies. I’m of the opposite opinion as are many others on this board. I think you could eat up to half of the calories you described in your post workout window. My own personal experience as well as others I’ve read on this message board have eaten LOTS of calories if you want to makimize muscle gain/weight. While going through a mass gain cycle I’ve eaten up to 200 grams protein and 300 grams carbs post workout and I’m not some behemoth of a man. This principle got me from 175 at 7-8% body fat (height 6’-1")to 196 at 11% body fat in 3 months time (w 3 Mag10 cycles). Yes I gained fat but I’m convinced it was more due to my less than ideal eating habits outside of my post workout window (pww) in addition to absolutely no cardio during this time. If I did moderate amounts of cardio and was more strict with my diet outside of pww I could’ve minimized this fat gain.
Scenario:
Workout…during which I consume 1/2 of my PWO drink. Upon completion, I drink the other half.
Wait 45-60 minutes:
Eat my ass off. This is by far my largest meal of the day. I shoot for 1 gram of CHO per lbs of LEAN body mass and 0.5 grams of protein per lbs of LBM. Which translates to around 170 grams of CHO’s and 85 grams of protein. Then I will wait another 90 minutes or so and have another P+C meal which is considerably smaller, but all in all…those 2-3 hours after training, I consume around around 25-35% of total calories for the day.
Been doing this for awhile now (per Coach Waterbury’s suggestions) and it is working like a charm. Just make sure you’re using quality CHO and protein sources and limit fat intake. Granted, you will be ingesting incomplete fat (its nearly impossible to get 0 fat)…but this is the time where you want to avoid a lipogenic scenario. Just high quality CHO’s and protein during this time. Eat up my man!!! Enjoy!
I can’t wait to implement this next time I bulk. I’m gonna try the ‘eat kiddie cereal’ technique… oh god Waterbury, how I love thee.
Randman,
I never said that you couldn’t eat a large amount of calories post-workout. All I was stating was what is REQUIRED for muscle growth. I also never said that eating greater amounts would cause fat gain.
As for your apparent lack of enthusiasm for science, it appears to me that your protein & carb meal is the result of studies that JB has summarized. Similarly, MAG 10 (which probably has as much to do with your muscle gain as your post workout eating) was likely developed through the careful reading of scientific studies. Now I’m not one to put down personal experience as I believe it is a great teacher. Just don’t blow of research as it is the basis for most of the info on this site.
[quote]
If you were cutting I’d say avoid it as you might want to increase your fat use during exercise. [/quote]
What you eat prior to exercise doesn’t affect substrate utilization.
Yes Kinetix, I believe those studies address muscle recovery, but what people are referring to here is muscle growth, which I think is a different story all together…
Thunder,
From what I’ve read (as part of Dr Phillips’ and Dr Gibala’s) grad course what you eat before training DOES influence substrate utilization. What am I missing?
Kieran,
The studies I mentioned had to do with muscle protein synthesis and protein net balance. To me that illustrates muscle growth.
Kinetix,
Maybe I came off wrong. I do appreciate studies/research. We wouldn’t be where we are today w/o them. But if I read your message right, all it takes is 75 grams of carbs (+ protein) split into 2 meals to gain muscle? Shit, maybe if I’m 120 lbs it may be effective or maybe if I’m a genetic freak but being an average weighted guy I know that would not do it for me. I’d be interested in anyone else has had success gaining a good portion of muscle over a 3-6 month or 1 year period of time doing this.
Randman,
The dosage I was speaking of was used for an average 70kg (154lb) person. However, data from the same lab suggest that carbohydrates in addition to amino acids may not even be required for protein synthesis (i.e., muscle growth). Mind you, the people running the study had access to pure amino acids and could adjust each according to body weight.
Secondly, the study wasn’t a long term training study so the events that happened on that particular day may not translate into long term gains.
I guess we can all take what we like from a study. However, as humans we have a strong tendency to only appreciate studies that confirm what we already believe. Change sucks.
I’ve been following this thread, and think that the very last statement is the most important:
“I guess we can all take what we like from a study. However, as humans we have a strong tendency to only appreciate studies that confirm what we already believe. Change sucks.”
I’m glad that the differences between “minimum required” and “optimal amount” were expressed. I also think it’s cool that this conversation happened without any flames (a rare event on other boards).
Thanks DB. I think I got that comment from Stu.