Can I use 500 mg of Metformin with the PW shake? Or is the high carb shake not needed with Metformin post workout?
John B, what you are saying is that if we were abe to obtain the amino acid profile of the whey hydrosolate we use in this cocktai, all we have to do is use the same ratio’s seen in the amino acid profile, and just add more of them, or do we have to adjust for defencies, such as glutamine?
I AM NOT saying that the profile of whey hydrolysate is ideal. I was trying to specify that no matter what protein you choose, you need to supplement several additional aminos. These EXTRA aminos plus the aminos in the whey must be adjusted for the ideal ratio. That’s all I can say. I pretty much assure you that you wont find the correct ratio by trial and error. It took me alot of time in the lab over the last year taking detailed blood plasma measures to figure it out. Sorry guys, as I said earlier, if we give this ratio away we give years of research and thousands and thousands of dollars away.
Well it seems like Steve Baker is doing a real good job of tracking down the ratios - hey Steve, keep us updated! I’ll probably buy Biotests formula when it comes out, but it takes a while for it to get to South Africa. Oh yeah, prohormones can no longer be imported into SA! I can NOT believe it. BASTARDS!
one thing i am gonna try to do is add some of my own ideas to the mix…i figure its worth a shot…like phenylalanine, and im gonna keep tinkering with the aminos and sugar ratios…im sure i wont get it down like biotest does but i need something(im sure we all do!) in the mean time…one thing i will say, is that even if you gave us the numbers, chances are wed still buy it from you as its a hassle and honestly, its damn expensive to buy this stuff in high grade! lucky ive got dough kicking around 
ill be back
John, I understand your views. But, all this teasing us with ratios of ingredients plus 3-5 articles in the works about this topic is the standard promotion tactic of Biotest. I mean, could you give a poor man’s substitute to this product? I know, nothing will ever be as effective as the original product. Don’t take this the wrong way, please.
Ok, so will the final ratio’s be on the label of the final product? Will the mg’s of the amino’s at least be on the label??? Also is there any way that someone that read the pertinent info that John B is talking about be abe to come up with this ratio, or is there more involved than just reading the studies??? This is VERY FRUSTERATIING!!!
jd- I know you don’t mean to be offensive, but you do realize that this forum and this magazine would not be FREE if Biotest did not make a profit, right? I HOPE they make a profit, because I want to keep getting free Ian King articles! If you don’t like that part of the game, then skip it. You’re whining a little, bud.
Question for Mad Scientist (aka Steve Baker). How do you measure exact amounts of the individual aminos? Does someone sell a scales accurate enough? How much fenugreek extract? Keep up the great experiments.
right now ive been using (as some of you may have guessed by those odd numbers) a bcaa blend of the aminos needed (glutamine withheld of course)…i CAN get the individual ones but it was a tad pricy and these capsules seem to be doing the trick rather well…the fenugreek you can buy at any gnc, they have a house blend of a 1:4 standardized extract…i took two pills the first time and i just popped 4 with the same doses as mentioned before…ill let you know which is better…i think i may just go nuts on the aminos on my next trial run, just to see what happens :).
ive got a couple more comments, then ive got a couple ideas/questions for you guys…
first, i dont think it has to be precise down to a more than say one decimal point… ie 4.5 grams…i mean come on, id be pretty sceptical…i do belive that the ratios would have to be right on though as that would make sense…
as for my questions…
what would happen if you took only say dextrose?would it hit you faster?
what would happen if you added more carbs, but one that has a low gi? would you be able to shuttle more in while still avoiding any response from your body that may hinder the effects, or is the bodys response just based on volume of carbs alone?
Is there any advantage to taking fenugreek seeds and gymnema sylvestre? Or do they do the exact same thing?
Am I correct in concluding that if I combine the correct ratio of regular protein powder to high GI carbs, it would be a much better post workout shake than your regular MRP? Granted it won’t be as good as using whey hydrolysate and having the precise ratio of aminos, but from what John Berardi wrote, each of those items make the protein synthesis that much higher. I’d rather at least have 25% of the benefits until the product comes out.
Charles P. original formula was 2.0 g of carbs
per kg, Duchaines was 1.5 g per kg.
Why does Bernardi suggest so few carbs, won´t more carbs replace glycogen better?
bateman: beyond a certain threshold, glycogen
stores will be full and any additional carbs
consumed at that time will merely be stored
as fat. Threshold varies from individual to
individual and also based upon training volume
Here’s what I’m doing, and it seems to work
quite well: (I weigh 200lbs)
30gm dextrose
40gm maltodextrin
35gm whey protein hydrolysate
7gm glutamine peptides
4gm l-leucine
2gm l-valine
1gm l-isoleucine
keeping in mind that whey is already high
in BCAAs and low in glutamine.
Also I forgot, the hydrolysate tastes like
shit. I add some cranberry juice concentrate
to the mix which almost completely masks the
taste. The cranberry is bitter, but strong
tasting; the dextrose makes up for the lack of sweetness.
Again, I would like to compare this current idea with what the late DD was suggesting; and that was carb drink before workout and glucoplastic aminos post workout.
Thanks
OK ANSWER ME!! would crystal light be able to mask the taste considering it has no carbs or anything in it so it wouldnt ruin the ratios… im about to order all of the ingredients… so tell me
Here’s what I’ll be using (as soon as the order arrives from The Protein Factory):
30% Dextrose
25% Maltodextrin
25% Hydro 520
10% CFM Whey Isolate
10% BCAA (standard PF ratio)
No glutamine because much (but not all) research indicates it has no beneficial effects. I have also personally used glutamine in mega-doses with no change in body comp, recovery, or any other parameter.I’ll let everyone know how it goes.