[quote]jaker51 wrote:
[quote]TrapsLatsnHat wrote:
First of all I did not know eating fats won’t increase fat? are you sure?
[/quote]
NOOOO!! Fats do not increase bodyfat. Do not be afraid to eat fats when cutting. The macro that CAN make you fat is carbs. [/quote]
Any macro can make you fat. No one should be scared of protein, fat, OR carbs.
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]jaker51 wrote:
[quote]TrapsLatsnHat wrote:
First of all I did not know eating fats won’t increase fat? are you sure?
[/quote]
NOOOO!! Fats do not increase bodyfat. Do not be afraid to eat fats when cutting. The macro that CAN make you fat is carbs. [/quote]
Any macro can make you fat. No one should be scared of protein, fat, OR carbs. [/quote]
Yes, but he’s cutting. An excess of carbs will hinder his fat loss. When cutting, I suggest putting an emphasis on fats and saving carbs for when they are absolutely NEEDED: PWO.
[quote]jaker51 wrote:
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]jaker51 wrote:
[quote]TrapsLatsnHat wrote:
First of all I did not know eating fats won’t increase fat? are you sure?
[/quote]
NOOOO!! Fats do not increase bodyfat. Do not be afraid to eat fats when cutting. The macro that CAN make you fat is carbs. [/quote]
Any macro can make you fat. No one should be scared of protein, fat, OR carbs. [/quote]
Yes, but he’s cutting. An excess of carbs will hinder his fat loss. When cutting, I suggest putting an emphasis on fats and saving carbs for when they are absolutely NEEDED: PWO. [/quote]
That’s fine if that’s what you prefer to do, emphasizing fats. But and excess of ANY of the 3 macro nutrients will hinder fat loss. As long as he’s hitting at least 1g/lb BW for protein, and roughly .45g/lb BW in essential fats, then him filling the rest of his caloric intake with ANY of the other 3 macros will still allow fat-loss, as long as he’s in a caloric deficit.
Not trying to start a debate. Whether gaining or cutting, it’s not only carbs that can will make you ‘fat’. That’s all I’m saying.
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]jaker51 wrote:
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]jaker51 wrote:
[quote]TrapsLatsnHat wrote:
First of all I did not know eating fats won’t increase fat? are you sure?
[/quote]
NOOOO!! Fats do not increase bodyfat. Do not be afraid to eat fats when cutting. The macro that CAN make you fat is carbs. [/quote]
Any macro can make you fat. No one should be scared of protein, fat, OR carbs. [/quote]
Yes, but he’s cutting. An excess of carbs will hinder his fat loss. When cutting, I suggest putting an emphasis on fats and saving carbs for when they are absolutely NEEDED: PWO. [/quote]
That’s fine if that’s what you prefer to do, emphasizing fats. But and excess of ANY of the 3 macro nutrients will hinder fat loss. As long as he’s hitting at least 1g/lb BW for protein, and roughly .45g/lb BW in essential fats, then him filling the rest of his caloric intake with ANY of the other 3 macros will still allow fat-loss, as long as he’s in a caloric deficit.
Not trying to start a debate. Whether gaining or cutting, it’s not only carbs that can will make you ‘fat’. That’s all I’m saying.[/quote]
Right. Maybe i’m just a little bias because low carb/higher fats is what works for me. lol
Ok well, I’m not skinny…any more 
So what will be your recommended macros for me? 81kg, 12% BF
Your comment earlier for saving carbs for PWO, does that mean your not having Carbs at breakfast?
Not trying a beat a dead horse here,or say anything everyone doesn’t already know, but yes any excess of macros will result in fat gain. Carbohydrates have a unique attribute that they initiate insulin release, so they have a higher potential to be stored. Since many proteins contain fat, and fat is critical for hormone production that is beneficial for building muscle, and protein is essential for muscle building, carbs are an easier source of macros to reduce when trying to reduce gross caloric intake and lose bodyfat.
Breakfast and PWO are times when carbs have the least potential to be stored as fat, and be used for sparing protein and glycogen replenishment. More so for PWO, but breakfast too.
At 190lbs, you should be around 190p, 200c, 60f That is 1160+800+540 =2500 On workout days anywhere from 14-16 calories multiplied by your bodyweight. On non-workout days anywhere from 10-12 multiplied by your bodyweight is a simple formula to abide by. Start with this and adjust accordingly.
[quote]mathew260 wrote:
Not trying a beat a dead horse here,or say anything everyone doesn’t already know, but yes any excess of macros will result in fat gain. Carbohydrates have a unique attribute that they initiate insulin release, so they have a higher potential to be stored. Since many proteins contain fat, and fat is critical for hormone production that is beneficial for building muscle, and protein is essential for muscle building, carbs are an easier source of macros to reduce when trying to reduce gross caloric intake and lose bodyfat.
Breakfast and PWO are times when carbs have the least potential to be stored as fat, and be used for sparing protein and glycogen replenishment. More so for PWO, but breakfast too.
At 190lbs, you should be around 190p, 200c, 60f That is 1160+800+540 =2500 On workout days anywhere from 14-16 calories multiplied by your bodyweight. On non-workout days anywhere from 10-12 multiplied by your bodyweight is a simple formula to abide by. Start with this and adjust accordingly.
[/quote]
Ok, while you are right about insulin, but look at some of Lyle McDonalds articles. It’s actually easier for dietary fat to be stored as body fat, as opposed to carbs. Just saying, choosing to cut calories from any of the 3 macro-nutrients has it’s plus and minuses. You are right that, for overall health, there are minimums one must hit for protein and fats, with carbohydrates not being ‘essential’ for living and all.
I agree with the PWO suggestion, but ‘breakfast’ would be the LAST place I eat my carbs. Look into Carb-Backloading, John Keifer’s writings, or some of John Meadow’s recent dietary suggestions.
The BW multiplications are what I use, and so far have worked pretty well.
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
It’s actually easier for dietary fat to be stored as body fat, as opposed to carbs.
Wow, I never knew that. Where did you find this?
[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
It’s actually easier for dietary fat to be stored as body fat, as opposed to carbs.
Wow, I never knew that. Where did you find this?[/quote]
Lol…
@spidey22
Thanks for chiming in. When you eat your carbs ( not sure why but I am beginning to hate this abridged term) isn’t as important as how often you eat your carbs. But hey if the newest diet craze, carbbackloading or whatever new thing is in right now and gets you excited and motivated then by all means. The idea with breakfast and PWO carbs is utilizing insulin sensitivity. They work by the same principles and they both work. I need carbs first thing in the day, and I certainly need them before training. I would say this goes for most people. If however you can hold off all day and “backload” them, the results are the same. Only with carb back loading you are essentially carb fasting during the day, as opposed to during sleep, same principle, just a new way to market it and trademark a cool new diet term.
In terms of fat I would most certainly not take them below 20% and would suggest staying at around the 30% mark. Again, we are talking about a young adult male who is bodybuilding, and in need of building materials for hormones. We are also talking about healthy ratios of fatty acids, not tubs of lard. So in another situation, an Olympic athlete who is training 6 hours a day, carbs, fats and proteins can be manipulated in different ways. In this situation keep the fat and protein, manipulate the carbs, like I said more importantly PWO, and whichever method he will actually stick to and use, either in the morning or at night.
Or you could try the Twinkie diet, which also appearently “works”.
[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
It’s actually easier for dietary fat to be stored as body fat, as opposed to carbs.
Wow, I never knew that. Where did you find this?[/quote]
On Lyle McDonald’s site.
I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic though. lol
[quote]mathew260 wrote:
[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
It’s actually easier for dietary fat to be stored as body fat, as opposed to carbs.
Wow, I never knew that. Where did you find this?[/quote]
Lol…
@spidey22
Thanks for chiming in. When you eat your carbs ( not sure why but I am beginning to hate this abridged term) isn’t as important as how often you eat your carbs. But hey if the newest diet craze, carbbackloading or whatever new thing is in right now and gets you excited and motivated then by all means. The idea with breakfast and PWO carbs is utilizing insulin sensitivity. They work by the same principles and they both work. I need carbs first thing in the day, and I certainly need them before training. I would say this goes for most people. If however you can hold off all day and “backload” them, the results are the same. Only with carb back loading you are essentially carb fasting during the day, as opposed to during sleep, same principle, just a new way to market it and trademark a cool new diet term.
In terms of fat I would most certainly not take them below 20% and would suggest staying at around the 30% mark. Again, we are talking about a young adult male who is bodybuilding, and in need of building materials for hormones. We are also talking about healthy ratios of fatty acids, not tubs of lard. So in another situation, an Olympic athlete who is training 6 hours a day, carbs, fats and proteins can be manipulated in different ways. In this situation keep the fat and protein, manipulate the carbs, like I said more importantly PWO, and whichever method he will actually stick to and use, either in the morning or at night.
Or you could try the Twinkie diet, which also appearently “works”.[/quote]
Fair enough. I just know being insulin sensitive, doesn’t mean specifically just to muscle cells, but to fat cells as well.
I totally understand what you’re saying, and for the most part agree. I just see carbs sometimes labeled as ‘bad’, and for a hard training athlete I don’t think that’s the case. I don’t think you do either, I just want people reading this who are still trying to figure out what works for them, to not be afraid of any of the 3 macronutrients.
Got ya. Totally agree. Was actually supporting what you originally stated about excess calories in general, and speaking specifically to the guy reducing bf. Yes, I think people often get bodybuilders and athletes confused. There was this debate for years on protein and athletes and how the bbing affinity for protein crept into that community. What people didn’t understand is a BBer is not concerned about performance per say, but body composition.
Athletes the opposite. So while an athlete needs to be more liberal with carbs and doesn’t need to feed 220 lbs of lean mass with massive amounts of protein, a BBer is going to have trouble adjusting his macro ratios with the .7g advised for an athlete. With what is understood about hormones, the thermogenic nature of protein, and the fact an athlete burns thousands of calories a day training, and BBer burns less training, but more maintaining massive amounts of muscle, it makes sense for each to do what is optimal for that specific goal.
Why burn protein and fat for fuel, when carbs are designed for that specific purpose, while cycling 100 miles. Why not eat more macros made of the raw components of what you are trying to build, and decrease macros you don’t really need in great amounts, so that you maintain that balance of total caloric intake and expenditure and thereby weight, when trying to keep muscle and reduce as much fat. Mike mentzer was right when it comes to body weight, but wrong when it comes to body composition. They are two different things. Anyway… I’m off to real land again have fun with the forum!!!
OK - So up my carbs is the order of the day.
My research has told me that timings are very important as well. How do I portion the macros? Do you agree with the below plan:
Assuming:
P 190, C 200, F 60,
4 Meals (Actual Meals) & 1 PWO Shake.
5 Day Split (Training in the Evenings at 6pm) & as much as I enjoy it my job is predominantly at a desk.
Break P40 C60 F10
M2 P40 C10 F20
M3 P40 C10 F20
Pre workout supp
WORKOUT
PWO P40 C60 F0
M5 P40 C60 F10
I’ve kept the carbs lighter whilst at work (M2&3) as I won’t use them. If I have increased my fats then having carbs is redundant at that time of day?
Anyone? Happy with the above?
Wait 30-60 minutes then L Leucine Dextrose and protein supplement