Post workout cereal

Training Bodybuilding
41

seminole chick,

Surge is just glucose, maltodextrin, and some protein, really. It’s actually a “clean” supplement because it’s not loaded with tons of vitamins and all kinds of other crap. Read the ingredients of something like Corn Flakes. No, wait, look at Lucky Charms. Partially hydrogentated soyben (probably genetically modified like you say) and all kinds of other crap.

So Surge is very clean compared to a breakfast cereal. I agree with you 100%. I’ll listen to seminole chick…her legs are much nicer than the rest of you :wink:

42

I agree with Seminole Chick. While surge is high in refined sugar at least it is devoid of hydrogenated oils and soy protein.

43

Nice post Seminole, and I can see where you’re coming from. Now we’re talking “grades” of junk!!


Surge (or a similar home-made concoction as I often use) is a no-brainer if you’ve got the money and it’s available. Pure simple carbs, and pure simple protein.


However going back to the original question- whether cereal could be used as a suitable component of a PWO or 2nd PWO meal. As our basic intention remains to induce the Insulin surge and start to replace the lost Glycogen, the basic answer is yes.


Now, considering all the artificial additives, poor processing and extraction you mentioned in gracious detail, is it the healthiest choice for your body? Definately not. But will a single bowl of “junk” cereal PWO be detrimental to an athlete’s general health and progress? Remember, all food, even the “cleanest”, is damaging to the body in the form of oxygen free radical production during metabolism.


I guess all I’m trying to say is ya pays ya money and ya makes ya choice. If cereal is the choice, then the least processed but highest glycemic index product would appear most logical. Correct me if I’m mistaken, but I think the ingredients of Frosted Wheats (Shugart’s poison of choice) is simply whole wheat, and sugar.


BTW I am NOT for the record a cereal fan. SRS

44

Seminole Chick -

I don’t profess to have the nutritional background that you seem to have, but I believe that your argument has to be taken with a grain of salt.

If I were to expand your cereal logic to other types of food, we would have to go back to the pre-industrial ages and gather/grow/hunt for all our food.

For example, look at the “Milk Q” thread. Due to the pasteurization and processing of milk, we should only drink raw milk. Not to mention the hormones they pump into these cows to get them continually lactating. Speaking of cows, we can only eat grass-fed beef. And as TC mentioned in last weeks atomic dog, no chicken either.

I could go on and on. At what point do we sacrifice our standard of living so we can spend our entire life devoting all our time to searching for whole food sources? One can easily stay healthy and at a reasonable body fat % without boycotting all foods that are potentially dangerous.

In faith,
Sam

45

“I could go on and on. At what point do we sacrifice our standard of living so we can spend our entire life devoting all our time to searching for whole food sources?”

Dude, since when is cereal a part of your standard of living?

Whole foods are EASY to find. They can be found in any grocery store. Finding the highest quality whole foods gets tricky, however. This is the category milk falls under.

46

You guys think to much. Even Shugart said you could pound the sugar cereals for the post workout meals.

Mix up your own post w/o shakes. I’ve been doing it for like the last five years. Its much cheaper. Go get a 10 lb bucket of malto. (Dirt cheap). I use a 1/2 cup malto, 16 oz. fruit juice, and two scoops protein (50+ grams).

Done and Done.

47

Save the healthier cereals for other clean P+C meals.

48

Dude, since when is cereal a part of your standard of living?

Morg,

I was simply making the point that you can pick almost any food to death, and determine that it is not worth eating. Cereal, thought not good in most cases, is a perfectly acceptable choice for PWO carbs.

greekdawg,

I agree. Personally I use whey and dextros (malto when I can find a home brew store) for PWO1, and cereal for PWO2. Other than that, no cereal for me.

In faith,
Sam

49

greekdawg…
not to hijack the post, but i think that’s a great alternative to expensive PWO drinks, i really didn’t consider buying malto… and i do home brewing! my sugar comes as a brownish liquid, so i didn’t consider a powder. (i’m assuming you mean powder). cheaper, better and

but the fruit juice, now you’re talking double sugars. is that too much? (ok, considering body size etc.). not sure what else you could add though. i have to agree that it’s definately better than cereal and probably pretty decent overall for PWO.

i don’t profess to have a lot of nutritional knowledge, just look into some things and by reading up, learn stuff.

the last cereal i bought off the shelf (over a year ago) was something organic from europe. it was whole grains, nuts and maybe honey. i can’t remember, but it wasn’t extruded. probably lower glycemic. sorry can’t recommend anything from a normal grocery store.

i confess to have have a can of steel cut oats in my freezer that i pull out on occasion for breakfast, and i do eat brown rice. both are soaked overnight in water with a bit of yogurt. those are some of the only grains i eat like that. (sprouted whole grain bread is great for breakfast, and it’s got 4gm complete protein in it, that’s the only other grains i usually eat “whole”).

50

So I guess what we have (if we throw out the use of Surge) is a bit of a dilemma.

Sugar cereal or a sugary drink plus whey is the best PWO meal in order to improve your physique, however, it will negatively affect your general health, even if it is only eaten at 4 out of 42 meals and for a total of 1,600 out of 21,000 calories each week (7% of total weekly intake on a person that trains 4 times per week and eats 3,000 calories per day.)

So called ‘clean’ CHO sources, such as raw oats, sweet potatoes, etc. are inferior to ‘junk food’ PWO with regard to improving your physique. However, unlike Lucky Charms or skim chocolate milk, these sources don’t get bleached then sprayed down with vitamins or otherwise processed, and thus improve your general health.

Is that about the size of the issue?

I’m ASSuming that, as Berardi says, spiking insulin and getting a moderate amount of fast acting protein post workout will lead to enhanced recovery and increases in LBM. LBM gains are one of the goals we all have, not to mention that they increase BMR helping us to bring in more nutrients without getting fat. That’s a positive that has to be weighed against the negative of eating a few meals a week of processed food.

And what of our sanity? Psychologically, cheat meals (for some) are great for stick-to-it-iveness. Are we gonna ignore that benefit?

And really, have there been any studies that have been done on EXACTLY what effects processed foods have on our general health when consumed A FEW meals a week? I mean, I’m sure that eating a substantial amount of crap foods causes harm…99% of people are walking examples of that. But what about the occasional ingestion of these things? Can our bodies not handle a little bit of crap? I’d think they can, seeingashow most everyone ‘cheats’ every so often.

Personally (unless there’s something else going on, which is what I am trying to find out) I’ll take the LBM gain and the opportunity to ‘cheat’ (sort of) at the best physiological time.

51

SRS and cpa

I guess what we’re getting at here is probably somewhat away from the original question. Do “candy” cereals give you the insulin spike required for growth? Yes, I’m sure they do. Are they the healthiest option? It’s possible, but I doubt it. I suppose what I was attempting to make a point about was whether this type of cereal could optimally satisfy both of these conditions. I neglected the psychological point because it was not mentioned. I was purely addressing the physiological optimum.

52

Why on earth would you use a crappy carb source when you can use a GOOD one?

I wonder if there are any studies that show how a poison will affect you if you eat just a little each week. An extreme example, yes, but an example nonetheless.

And if you need to chow down on a bowl of Corn Pops to keep your sanity, then you got issues, bro. Seek help.

And why have other natural sources been ignored? Mashed potatoes are easy and high GI. Dates are high GI as well. And what about fruit juices? Those are super easy. Beets are also quite high GI. Or you could just get maltodextrin powder and make your own stuff. I don’t know why this is limited to either yams and oatmeal or Corn Pops and Frosted Flakes.

53

First of all let’s clarify when I mean post work out meal, I mean the SECOND post w/o meal. I thought that was obvious by now.

Now, for the shake… High GI/High II. You WANT crappy sugars. Why the hell do you want to eat oats or bran, a high fiber, low GI/low II food that will slow down the release of carbs/insulin into your system? Doesn’t that defeat the purpose? That’s why I said to save the healthier cereals (if you even choose to eat them) for other P+C meals. The two meals post work out (1 shake and 1 solid) should consist of “Crappy” carbs as you guys put it, and in large amounts.

You think maltodextrin or dextrose are clean carbs?? It is one of the most broken down, bleached forms of “crappy” carbs there is. But it is perfect for postworkout.

Seminole chick,

the 1/2 cup of malto plus 16 oz. juice gives me 120 grams CHO. Yes, this is great. I think this is about right for me. Especially for gaining.

Cpa5oh,

you’ve got the right idea bro.

54

If you scroll up, even Shugart said eating the Frsoted “crap” after a workout was ok…

55

A few clarifications and things to further ponder:

  • 99% of cold cereals are just breakfast candy. Horrible food. But they can be useful during certain times, like in the 2nd post-workout meal, in certain situations, for certain people. And they’re cheaper than using a second dose of Surge, which is another option if you can afford it.

  • Chad Waterbury, who first convinced me of this idea, usually recommends it for hardgainers only. Personally, I only use the cereal trick when on a mass cycle and while using MAG-10. I would not do it otherwise because as a FFB (former fat boy) I can gain fat easily and have to be careful. I use Surge all the time however with any phase, even dieting. I have a hardgainer friend who does the cereal thing all the time and it’s really helping him pack on the muscle. Note the theme of individualization.

  • Don’t do the cereal thing unless you’re truly busting ass in the gym. A wussy workout plus the cereal trick will only get most people fat. Your muscles better be begging for it.

  • Comparing Surge to junk food - well, I’ve never seen junk food with high quality protein and a precise ratio of expensive aminos. Remember, there’s more in there than fast acting carbs. Some people seem to be forgetting that. See the “Solving the Post-Workout Puzzle” articles for more info.

56

Whey Powder + Frosted Flakes = bomb

Phaedrus

57

Why on earth would you use a crappy carb source when you can use a GOOD one?

If it gets the job done better than a 100% natural, clean food and the user stays lean while gaining lean body weight, then it may very well be the SMART choice - if Surge is not an option.

I wonder if there are any studies that show how a poison will affect you if you eat just a little each week. An extreme example, yes, but an example nonetheless.

That example doesn’t translate to what we are talking about.

I guarantee that almost every one of us endulges now and then. Are we poisoning ourselves every time we do that (ie. killing ourselves just a little bit with each ‘cheat?’) I don’t think so. Matter of fact, I’d be willing to bet that eating Lucky Charms as 7% of your diet has zero effect on overall health given the rest of your intake was good. I can’t prove it, of course, but it can’t be disproven, either.

And if you need to chow down on a bowl of Corn Pops to keep your sanity, then you got issues, bro. Seek help.

Stick the derogatory remarks up your ass. Who are you, Mr. Perfect? This isn’t a pissing contest.

And if you’ve had ONE bowl of cereal in the last three years, you’ve eaten the shit more than I have. If you’ve had ONE drink in the last ten, you’ve had ‘a little bit more poison’ than I have.

I ain’t some fat guy trying to validate shitty eating habits. I’m trying to find out if there’s a reason, beyond the knee-jerk ‘it ain’t good for you cause it comes in a box you should be ashamed of yourself’ argument, that getting the desired effect by eating something that might be seen as an endulgence is worse than NOT getting the desired effect. Or, if there’s a better way.

And why have other natural sources been ignored? Mashed potatoes are easy and high GI. Dates are high GI as well. And what about fruit juices? Those are super easy. Beets are also quite high GI. Or you could just get maltodextrin powder and make your own stuff. I don’t know why this is limited to either yams and oatmeal or Corn Pops and Frosted Flakes.

I guess you’ve got the answer here. Mashed potatoes (at least for the second PWO meal) would cause as good an insulin response as crappy food…I hadn’t thought of them (mainly because I HATE them :slight_smile: .) One question though: how would you serve them? You can’t use butter, as fat is not in the cards PWO. You can’t use fake butter, because that’s not natural. You just gonna eat them plain? Or is there something else you could do that wouldn’t add fat or decrease the insulin response? (That’s a genuine question, not an attempt to disregard potatoes.)

As far as fruit, is fruit not high in fructose? If dates and juices are, then this applies (from The Carb Roundtable, Part II):

“Fructose, on the other hand, is metabolized differently due to its structure. In the liver, fructose is metabolized and can replenish glycogen (liver only) or can form triglycerides. Due to the fact that fructose doesn’t cause a substantial rise in blood sugar (it’s too busy filling liver glycogen stores and creating triglycerides), it doesn’t stimulate insulin secretion to any large extent.”

58

This is a great thread! I just had an awesome workout and chowed down on a nice bowl of Honey-nut Cheerios, and I loved it. Mmmmm. Good stuff.

Billy

59

i think this thread has spiraled out of control so im going to make an attempt to bring it back down to earth.

if you are dieting hard i.e. trying to get in the low single digits, then “junk” cereal is probably not going to be conducive to your goals. (some people may be able to get away with it however.)

if you are just maintaining or in a mass phase then go for it. you cant “diet” or eat “clean” 100% of the time. you will drive yourself stark raving mad.

as far as some of these cereals not being “healthy” i dont think that is a concern for those of us who eat a diet that is more healthy than 99.9% of the world, not to mention the hours spent training.

stop over thinking things, hit the gym, and live a little.

60

Amen Cpa5oh and Amen P-Dog.