I like shreddies as they are high in starches from the grain, very little sugar added, and very low fat. I mix it with water and chocolate protein mix.
direct from johnberardi.com:
A whole food recovery meal
12 oz of skim milk + 1 serving Vector - (358 calories) - 18g protein, 65g Carbohydrate, 2.8g Fat
Oh…and by the way folks, don’t use post-workout meals as an excuse to eat crappy food. If you’re going to eat shitty call it like it is (i.e.,lack of discipline)
Damnit!
Shugs beat me to the punch! I was going to say that Fiber One is one quality choice (for periods other than post workout). I tend to eat it with water +whey or just add 1/2 cup to my oatmeal in the morning. The only downfall is that it is a tad bit pricey.
As for post workout…I like Smart Start, Raisin Bran Crunch, Honey Bunches of Oats, Honey Nut Cheerios, etc. I love me some cereal!
BTW i am glad to see that i am not the only one who enjoys PWO cereal…I also use fiber one,good stuff for twigs
amen and amen. grain cereal is just going to help hyperinflame you. read the articles in last weeks tmag.
Kinetix -
What is Vector?
And before the math weirdos go off on a tangent: yes a vector is defined as having a direction and a magnatude 
In faith,
Sam
another good non post work out cereal ia All Bran Extra Fiber, pretty much the same as Fiber One
Studies have shown “junk cereal” is ideal for post workout.
I have dieted down to 6% using Whey Isolate & Fruity pebbles and or Kellogs “Smores.”
The main ingediant in the smores is Dextrose. It works well if you need to keep your sanity.
Kinetix, how can it be that drinking Biotest’s (expensive) sugar and protein mix be ‘discipline’ but eating your own sugar with high quality protein is ‘lack of discipline?’
My understanding of the use of maltodextrin is that it causes a bigger insulin response than glucose. Lonnie Lowery in the carb roundtable said that studies show glycogen resynthesis rates are the same for glucose and maltodextrin.
So all we’ve got with maltodextrin as an advantage over glucose and other sugars is a slightly higher insulin spike, right? And if we drink some sugary drink with whey protien we are still way ahead (according to my understanding of Berardi’s writing) of the protein-only PWO and indifferent crowd, right?
What am I missing?
the grains in a box of cereal are so totally damaged, destroyed and utterly unhealthy that you ought to just go out and eat a candy bar or a spoonful of white sugar and and doritos. I mean, come on!!! what happened to clean eating??? Processed, packaged foods are NOT CLEAN!! those grains are usually genetically modified, and then they are processed beyond recognition to make them into some stable, shaped form. it’s the ultimate insult to a grain that once was nourishing and healthful. why the heck do you think they add like, 50 synthetic vitamins to your corn flakes? because eating that junk takes stuff OUT of your body. it’s a negative to your body.
i think this is a no brainer. and eating organic cocoa puffs doesn’t constitute healthy either. just cuz it says organic on the name doesn’t mean it’s any better. sorry for ranting, but this got me fired up. flame away i’m ready!
I’m not saying that eating junk food PWO is a good idea…well, maybe I am in a way. The way I take Berardi’s research is that, PWO, the most ideal meal is liquid that spikes insulin levels and allows for rapid muscle glycogen replenishment along with a fast acting protein. Per Berardi, this is accomplished with high insulin index carbohydrates. Maybe maltodextrin is best suited for this, but ‘junk cereal’ and sugary drinks spike insulin and allow for muscle glycogen replenishment, too (in the carb roundtable, Lowery said that replenishment is the same with glucose and maltodextrin.) However, these so called ‘clean’ foods such as natural high fiber grain cereal with no sugar are, per the research cited, not the way to go. Berardi says that our goal is to get the protein balance leaning toward anabolism as soon as possible, and to do that, we need a fast acting protein and a fast, large insulin spike.
Surge = Best
Fruity Pebbles and sugar drinks = Good
‘Clean foods’ = ineffective
Maybe the ‘discipline’ can be used to choke down skim chocolate milk and a bowl of fruity pebbles despite pressures from others to eat ‘clean foods?’
I’m not trying to be a shithead in this post, I’m just trying to find out if and why I’m incorrect in thinking that eating shit food is better PWO than eating the foods you eat the rest of the day. To me, the standard ‘because it’s junk food’ argument doesn’t work, because Surge sounds like designer junk food and it’s being touted as the perfect post workout meal/drink. And if you stay under 10% body fat while trying to gain muscle, eating ‘clean’ foods all day, everyday EXCEPT PWO, how can discipline come into question?
cpa has a point here. If you are going to take the stand of it being junk due to being over processed down to tiny molecules by unnatural processes then we had better stay away from maltodextrin also. It is processed with acids from corn starch, which has been processed from corn . So while I am firm on “very” clean eating, and the benifits that are related with it, PWO is a time when we actually need this processed jusk. It is a matter of choosing your poison, be it surge or a box of highly processed, sugar coated grains.
First in response to an earlier question: VECTOR is a high GI cereal, but my guess is that, since you haven’t heard of it, it may only be available in Canada.
Second, if you were to read the box the ingredient usually reads sugar. In the case of Raisin Bran (if you look closer)the words say glucose/fructose. That means SUCROSE which is table sugar, not maltodextrin.
Now I’m not saying that I am the most disciplined person on earth. However, I am saying that if you’re pounding down fruity pebbles after training you’d best not be associating it with JB’s recommendations. I’m guessing that this was definately not his intent. I’d be willing to bet if you purchased a nutrition program from him there would be no mention of a “candy cereal”. I’m not suggesting no cereal. Just not ones that my 5 year old cousin would eat.
seminole chick what cereal do you recomend? tia
Interesting thread, especially the last few comments about the definition of “junk food”. Well, what is it??
Junk food is just a term, nothing more- you define it how you want. Now we realise that ALL food will cause metabolic changes within the body (energy balance, Insulin status, anabolism/catabolism etc). In my eyes, “junk food” is a food that works to markedly, and UNDESIRABLY disturb the general body homeostasis (equilibrium) following ingestion, by producing either:
a) a sudden rise in Insulin production.
AND/OR b) a sudden rise (absorption) of disposable saturated fat.
An (a/b) combo would be for example the simple candy bar: Chock full of simple carbs, and saturated fats, the net effect is an insulin surge with the presence of fat= fat deposition. A similar scenario would come from say a bologni sandwich on white. There are so many examples (you won’t go wrong if you think of most products from fast food restaurants, or as previously described in T-Mag articles “Anything in a box”!!") I don’t need to go on.
Now, the suggested PWO “junk food” component we are considering here is generally taken to be of the form (a) above- a high dose of simple carbs. Taken alone, in the sedentary individual, and without consideration of the body’s metabolic state, this will cause a significant insulin surge, conversion of carbs to fat, and subsequent fat deposition (along with concurrent blocking of any lipolysis that was occurring in the body prior to ingestion).
But PWO, the scenario is different. For the generally “well-read” individuals who read T-Mag, the scenario is different.
In this case we are INTENT on significantly upsetting equilibrium and causing a significant Insulin surge. But it is in a controlled state, like a well-planned experiment. We want extraordinary results (trying to significantly alter body composition, which our well balanced bodies will generally resist). So we need to use extraordinary measures, JUST during this particular moment in time.
We further place control on the experiment by adding the quality rapidly absorbed/ utilised protein source- usually whey. Thus the restoration of glycogen, AND anabolism is aided.
In summary, we are deliberately using “junk food” to our desired effect at THIS particular time. For this ONE MOMENT, it is NOT “junk food”, as the ensuing effect is DESIRED. It is a protocol that WE can get away with (and benefit from) using because of our general lifestyle. None of us would recommend a bowl of Frosted Cheerios to our untrained, sedentary grandma as a sound nutritional plan, right? We want her to keep her insulin levels as stable as possible (which is an athlete’s general goal OUTSIDE of the training “window”). Junk foods are then not on the menu.
Hope this helps, or at least further stimulates conversation. SRS
PS: For the benefits of the “international” readership, Shreddies is roughly the British equivalent of Chex, and (Canadians correct me if I’m wrong!) Vector roughly equates to Smart Start. SRS
Have Grape Nuts. They are good and happen to be carb-overload. I’m not really familiar with its GI or anything but there is a huge amount of calories here in a small package.
Great post SRS.
You hit the exact points that were needed.
The point once again being these so called junk foods or designer PWO products are to be used as a tool. In the right hands they can be used to construct a very usefull product, while if employed by the untrained (pun intended) they can be equally destructive.
Excuse me while I push aside my pile of J Physiol papers. I thought for a split second that someone was making the presumption that I wasn’t well read. Granted, I haven’t read nearly all of JB’s articles as I’ve been busy reading the scientific literature for myself.
Having read some (not all) of JB’s articles and much of the literature myself it may surprise you to learn that NOT ONCE did the idea of fruit loops come up as an ideal post-workout strategy. However, if you feel that this is truly “clean” eating then your are either sadly mistaken or you are lying to yourself as an excuse to eat poorly.
I am not going to make the statement that I personally eat flawlessly. BUT I can state that at least when I do eat fruity pebbles that I’m not doing justice to my diet.
Has anybody tried the Special K with Strawberries…Love them, It’s like the strawberries come alive again!
Vector is Canadian, I think Shreddies are too.
I always feel guilty when I eat cereal, but its so good.
I understand how the right type of carbs post workout is what we’re striving for. and i also understand that surge to most people is a ‘junk food’ if not eaten at the right time, under the right circumstances etc. but a few things first.
i don’t have any surge on hand at the moment, so i can’t see the ingredients. but i’m pretty confident that although it has highly refined sugars that it’s completely devoid of ‘grains’ such as those in cereal. (yes, corn is a grain, but is there anything left of it once it’s becomes pure maltodextrin?) grains have fat in them, not much but once you extrude grains under high temperatures and pressures you make the fats in them go rancid. we don’t fry our food in wheat germ oil right? NO. so, that’s one issue with the grains. plus, they are bleached, leaving behind chemicals. most cereal grains are also genetically modified, as i stated before. so, you’re really left with an unhealthy product. what else they do with them i don’t know. coat them in sugar, or spray them with ‘vitamins’, bake them and add preservatives. who wants that?? how is surge different? it’s not much different, but at least you’re only getting maltodextrin, right? plus, a pure protein, vitamins and a few other things (fake sugar?). much safer in this case to have your PURE carbs rather than the junk in cereal.
the second issue is still that grains have phytates. we’ve brought up this issue before here, so i’m not going to get into it.
soaked or sprouted organic grains can be prepared in numerous ways and are very healthy. to me that’s just too much work. and then of course they’re not going to give you your insulin spike really. so, for me, i just don’t use them. it’s a choice you have to make.
so, it’s a judgement call. i could not in good faith tell anyone to eat any kind of cereal. i don’t even eat the bulk organic stuff at the market. it’s still an improperly processed grain. organic or not. your choice.