Post Workout Carbs? Necessary or Not?

Nutrition
121

[quote]PB Andy wrote:

[quote]oinky222 wrote:

[quote]PB Andy wrote:
It mentions things like Vitamin E, Vitamin C, Glutamine for pre/during workout, which I’ll try out sooner or later.[/quote]

actually there’s been a lot of research since the book was written suggesting that antioxidant supplements, such as vitamins e and c, can be detrimental towards recovery if consumed peri-workout. if you plan on taking antioxidant supplements, you’d probably be better off taking them at other times of the day.[/quote]

That’s interesting, do you know why exactly this is the case? Or can you direct me to studies where this is so? Just wondering for my own benefit.[/quote]

I’m not sure exactly why, but here’s a couple articles that mention it:

this study found that the antioxidants acted as prooxidants and ended up increasing oxidative stress and tissue damage:

Childs A, Jacobs C, Kaminski T, Halliwell B, Leeuwenburgh C. Supplementation with vitamin C and N-acetyl-cysteine increases oxidative stress in humans after an acute muscle injury induced by eccentric exercise. Free Radic Biol Med. 2001 Sep 15;31(6):745-53.

and these two studies found that the antioxidants actually decreased insulin sensitivity:

Ristow M, Zarse K, Oberbach A, et al. Antioxidants prevent health-promoting effects of physical exercise in humans. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America 2009;106:8665-8670.

Head K. Study suggests antioxidants inhibit exercise-induced insulin sensitivity. Alternative medicine review 2009;14:99-102.

122

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:

[quote]JaX Un wrote:

i just wanted to say that for the last 2 weeks or so i started taking my protein and carb source shake 30mins before working out and i have had incredible amounts of energy. After the workout i have a protein shake, no carbs then i down 12 eggs an hour later. and i am back to gaining

bonez types with an angry fist but he is one of the more knowledgeable guys on this forum. thanks man.[/quote]

That’s an awesome approach. How do you like your eggs? I can man up to eat that many if I scramble them. I’ve been thinking about cooking the whites separate and having the yolks raw (because it’s better for avoiding egg allergies this way), maybe mixing them into a chocolate frosting batter mixture using some erythritol (the best no carb sweetener I know of) and cocoa powder, maybe with some other no carb thickening agent too (I could add gelatin, and or refrigerate the mixture). I’m hoping to get it to taste just like frosting, or better. I might make a low carb flax/chia bread that has the whites in it, and put this frosting mixture on top.[/quote]

So you are concerned about possible egg allergies, yet you are happy to use artificial sweeteners and chocolate frosted batter mix, just to avoid this possible allergy?

Just drink the eggs and add some coconut milk if you want to further avoid the taste.

BBB[/quote]

I hear what you’re saying but egg allergies (from cooked eggs), but they are a lot more common than erythriol allergies as far as I know. Allergic reactions to eggs are generally caused by the changes that take place in the cooking process, hence not only for convenience/speed/efficacy, but health being another top reason to eat (at least the yolks) raw. Please let me know if you have info on erythriol allergies.

Also, I in the post above I talked about cooking the egg white. As to why I would do that and not drink the whole egg raw, for me it’s about that little thing in egg whites called avidin which is very effective at binding to the “B vitamin” biotin. The concern is that this can lead to a biotin deficiency. I’m not 100% sure if this is an issue if I’m taking a multi (half dose) and on a bulking diet (which surely provides a good amount of biotin), but I’d rather be safe than sorry considering the role of biotin in the body and combined with the fact that I’m considering eating what most would consider an abnormal amount of eggs on a daily basis. Also, from what i’ve read it can take weeks to years of raw egg white eating for a biotin deficiency to appear, and while overt in outward appearance of symptoms, I think such a condition would have a considerable impact on health and muscle building in the long haul.

Also, it’s not so much about the taste being unbearable as I can manage it on it’s own, I was just trying to improve upon something. I made a version of it the other day and it was pretty good. Erythriol is actually shown to be an antioxidant too! Nutrition | Journal | ScienceDirect.com by Elsevier [/quote]

Biotin deficiency would be a concern when somoene is consuming roughly 20 raw eggs at a time on a routine basis. Avoiding raw egg whites is fine, but having a few at a time wont be a problem for normally functioning people.

That information is pulled from wiki. It’s a bit ambiguous because it does not distinguish between whole eggs and raw eggs when saying that ~20 raw eggs can lead to biotin deficiency. [/quote]

I understand it would take a lot of eggs. JaX Un, eggowned, and Hungry4More do 12 at a time, and I’m thinking about eating a considerable amount of eggs (maybe not 12 at a time, but perhaps 10-12 or so in a day total) in the near future. This is not that far from the 20 eggs you’re referring to.

123

[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:

[quote]JaX Un wrote:

i just wanted to say that for the last 2 weeks or so i started taking my protein and carb source shake 30mins before working out and i have had incredible amounts of energy. After the workout i have a protein shake, no carbs then i down 12 eggs an hour later. and i am back to gaining

bonez types with an angry fist but he is one of the more knowledgeable guys on this forum. thanks man.[/quote]

That’s an awesome approach. How do you like your eggs? I can man up to eat that many if I scramble them. I’ve been thinking about cooking the whites separate and having the yolks raw (because it’s better for avoiding egg allergies this way), maybe mixing them into a chocolate frosting batter mixture using some erythritol (the best no carb sweetener I know of) and cocoa powder, maybe with some other no carb thickening agent too (I could add gelatin, and or refrigerate the mixture). I’m hoping to get it to taste just like frosting, or better. I might make a low carb flax/chia bread that has the whites in it, and put this frosting mixture on top.[/quote]

So you are concerned about possible egg allergies, yet you are happy to use artificial sweeteners and chocolate frosted batter mix, just to avoid this possible allergy?

Just drink the eggs and add some coconut milk if you want to further avoid the taste.

BBB[/quote]

I hear what you’re saying but egg allergies (from cooked eggs), but they are a lot more common than erythriol allergies as far as I know. Allergic reactions to eggs are generally caused by the changes that take place in the cooking process, hence not only for convenience/speed/efficacy, but health being another top reason to eat (at least the yolks) raw. Please let me know if you have info on erythriol allergies.

Also, I in the post above I talked about cooking the egg white. As to why I would do that and not drink the whole egg raw, for me it’s about that little thing in egg whites called avidin which is very effective at binding to the “B vitamin” biotin. The concern is that this can lead to a biotin deficiency. I’m not 100% sure if this is an issue if I’m taking a multi (half dose) and on a bulking diet (which surely provides a good amount of biotin), but I’d rather be safe than sorry considering the role of biotin in the body and combined with the fact that I’m considering eating what most would consider an abnormal amount of eggs on a daily basis. Also, from what i’ve read it can take weeks to years of raw egg white eating for a biotin deficiency to appear, and while overt in outward appearance of symptoms, I think such a condition would have a considerable impact on health and muscle building in the long haul.

Also, it’s not so much about the taste being unbearable as I can manage it on it’s own, I was just trying to improve upon something. I made a version of it the other day and it was pretty good. Erythriol is actually shown to be an antioxidant too! Nutrition | Journal | ScienceDirect.com by Elsevier [/quote]

Biotin deficiency would be a concern when somoene is consuming roughly 20 raw eggs at a time on a routine basis. Avoiding raw egg whites is fine, but having a few at a time wont be a problem for normally functioning people.

That information is pulled from wiki. It’s a bit ambiguous because it does not distinguish between whole eggs and raw eggs when saying that ~20 raw eggs can lead to biotin deficiency. [/quote]

I understand it would take a lot of eggs. JaX Un, eggowned, and Hungry4More do 12 at a time, and I’m thinking about eating a considerable amount of eggs (maybe not 12 at a time, but perhaps 10-12 or so in a day total) in the near future. This is not that far from the 20 eggs you’re referring to.[/quote]

It’s close to half lol not really that close IMO.

I dont eat raw eggs, I see no need. So I’m just passing along info that I came across. Take it how you please.

124

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:

[quote]JaX Un wrote:

i just wanted to say that for the last 2 weeks or so i started taking my protein and carb source shake 30mins before working out and i have had incredible amounts of energy. After the workout i have a protein shake, no carbs then i down 12 eggs an hour later. and i am back to gaining

bonez types with an angry fist but he is one of the more knowledgeable guys on this forum. thanks man.[/quote]

That’s an awesome approach. How do you like your eggs? I can man up to eat that many if I scramble them. I’ve been thinking about cooking the whites separate and having the yolks raw (because it’s better for avoiding egg allergies this way), maybe mixing them into a chocolate frosting batter mixture using some erythritol (the best no carb sweetener I know of) and cocoa powder, maybe with some other no carb thickening agent too (I could add gelatin, and or refrigerate the mixture). I’m hoping to get it to taste just like frosting, or better. I might make a low carb flax/chia bread that has the whites in it, and put this frosting mixture on top.[/quote]

So you are concerned about possible egg allergies, yet you are happy to use artificial sweeteners and chocolate frosted batter mix, just to avoid this possible allergy?

Just drink the eggs and add some coconut milk if you want to further avoid the taste.

BBB[/quote]

I hear what you’re saying but egg allergies (from cooked eggs), but they are a lot more common than erythriol allergies as far as I know. Allergic reactions to eggs are generally caused by the changes that take place in the cooking process, hence not only for convenience/speed/efficacy, but health being another top reason to eat (at least the yolks) raw. Please let me know if you have info on erythriol allergies.

Also, I in the post above I talked about cooking the egg white. As to why I would do that and not drink the whole egg raw, for me it’s about that little thing in egg whites called avidin which is very effective at binding to the “B vitamin” biotin. The concern is that this can lead to a biotin deficiency. I’m not 100% sure if this is an issue if I’m taking a multi (half dose) and on a bulking diet (which surely provides a good amount of biotin), but I’d rather be safe than sorry considering the role of biotin in the body and combined with the fact that I’m considering eating what most would consider an abnormal amount of eggs on a daily basis. Also, from what i’ve read it can take weeks to years of raw egg white eating for a biotin deficiency to appear, and while overt in outward appearance of symptoms, I think such a condition would have a considerable impact on health and muscle building in the long haul.

Also, it’s not so much about the taste being unbearable as I can manage it on it’s own, I was just trying to improve upon something. I made a version of it the other day and it was pretty good. Erythriol is actually shown to be an antioxidant too! Nutrition | Journal | ScienceDirect.com by Elsevier [/quote]

Biotin deficiency would be a concern when somoene is consuming roughly 20 raw eggs at a time on a routine basis. Avoiding raw egg whites is fine, but having a few at a time wont be a problem for normally functioning people.

That information is pulled from wiki. It’s a bit ambiguous because it does not distinguish between whole eggs and raw eggs when saying that ~20 raw eggs can lead to biotin deficiency. [/quote]

I understand it would take a lot of eggs. JaX Un, eggowned, and Hungry4More do 12 at a time, and I’m thinking about eating a considerable amount of eggs (maybe not 12 at a time, but perhaps 10-12 or so in a day total) in the near future. This is not that far from the 20 eggs you’re referring to.[/quote]

It’s close to half lol not really that close IMO.

I dont eat raw eggs, I see no need. So I’m just passing along info that I came across. Take it how you please. [/quote]

I do appreciate the info. I always appreciate your advice Bonez. I truly respect what you have to say. Thanks… Anyways, I just didn’t know if you realized the amount of eggs I was talking about or not, that’s all. But you did. Okay. That’s all. I’m out.

125

MODOK- thanks for the book recommendation (Nutrient Timing). Done reading about 1/2 of it, very good read, found myself highlighting several times on each page.

Seems to be in full support of carbs PWO along with protein, along with slightly before workout higher ratio of carbs:protein, continuiing PWO.
Then when moving to your PWO meal after the PWO shake to consume much higher ratio of protein:carbs in that meal

126

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
MODOK- thanks for the book recommendation (Nutrient Timing). Done reading about 1/2 of it, very good read, found myself highlighting several times on each page.

Seems to be in full support of carbs PWO along with protein, along with slightly before workout higher ratio of carbs:protein, continuiing PWO.
Then when moving to your PWO meal after the PWO shake to consume much higher ratio of protein:carbs in that meal[/quote]
I’m reading this book too: realize that it was written 6 years ago in 2004. It’s a great read and all but I think that due to new research/studies some stuff isn’t applicable anymore… i.e. using glutamine, arginine, vitamin C & E.

127

[quote]PB Andy wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
MODOK- thanks for the book recommendation (Nutrient Timing). Done reading about 1/2 of it, very good read, found myself highlighting several times on each page.

Seems to be in full support of carbs PWO along with protein, along with slightly before workout higher ratio of carbs:protein, continuiing PWO.
Then when moving to your PWO meal after the PWO shake to consume much higher ratio of protein:carbs in that meal[/quote]
I’m reading this book too: realize that it was written 6 years ago in 2004. It’s a great read and all but I think that due to new research/studies some stuff isn’t applicable anymore… i.e. using glutamine, arginine, vitamin C & E.[/quote]

Yes, you are correct. that being said, the studies referenced still happened :wink:

128

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]PB Andy wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
MODOK- thanks for the book recommendation (Nutrient Timing). Done reading about 1/2 of it, very good read, found myself highlighting several times on each page.

Seems to be in full support of carbs PWO along with protein, along with slightly before workout higher ratio of carbs:protein, continuiing PWO.
Then when moving to your PWO meal after the PWO shake to consume much higher ratio of protein:carbs in that meal[/quote]
I’m reading this book too: realize that it was written 6 years ago in 2004. It’s a great read and all but I think that due to new research/studies some stuff isn’t applicable anymore… i.e. using glutamine, arginine, vitamin C & E.[/quote]

Yes, you are correct. that being said, the studies referenced still happened ;)[/quote]
Agreed.