Post Workout Carbs? Necessary or Not?

Nutrition
101

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]IronWarrior34 wrote:
even though some protein may be sweet it doesnt mean there are alot of sugars in it?? some people are going to argue that PWO carbs are necassary and others will argue thats they arent that important. But, in my opinion PWO carbs are definitely something you need especially after a tough workout…you just have to make sure your taking the proper amount of protein/carbs in that PWO shake…and im sure a Diabetic wouldnt have a double dose of Surge Recovery after a workout…

IronWarrior[/quote]

And where is this literature coming from? Not trying to be smart.

Interesting wording you chose “bad idea”. Why would it be bad if it’s worked so well for countless people up to 6 months ago before the whole “ANACONDA Protocol”?

Perhaps it may not be seen as optimal any more, but bad?

Carbs are needed for people looking to add muscle. But consuming carbs immediately after a workout with the goal of spiking insulin is a bad idea. There is a lot a lot of new-ish literature on this topic. [/quote]
[/quote]

With the amount you spend on supplements you cant tell me you havent read the “para-workout nutrition” stuff.

But unless CT is blatantly lying to us about how catecholamine levels increase after a workout, I cant see any way how consuming carbs in an attempt to spike insulin can do anything positive for body composition.
[/quote]

What I am getting at, is why is spiking insulin PWO an awful idea for body comp, if even CT was recommending doing such 6 months ago. The human body hasn’t changed, granted the science may be giving us a better picture of things. But to say carbs PWO is a bad idea is limited thinking IMO.

For fat loss, they may not be necessary or even ideal, for gaining muscle I don’t see the harm[/quote]

Considering the fact that you aren’t in elite shape, shouldn’t you be trying to do as much as possible to make improvements?

Why even pay attention to science or anything technical if you are going to disregard facts because theyre “only 6 months old”? The muscle is built using magic spells, right? A fat loss occurs because of ritual sacrifice.

[/quote]

Way to side step the argument. And since I’m not in elite shape, i doubt having carbs PWO is going to be detrimental for me ;)[/quote]

I just think it’s too easy to move a maltodextrin/whey shake to 30 minutes pre workout instead of post workout for this to even be an issue. If something that simple can provide even 5% better results I am definitely going to do it.

Have you at least tried having a carb/whey shake pre workout as opposed to post before passing judgment? [/quote]

i just wanted to say that for the last 2 weeks or so i started taking my protein and carb source shake 30mins before working out and i have had incredible amounts of energy. After the workout i have a protein shake, no carbs then i down 12 eggs an hour later. and i am back to gaining

bonez types with an angry fist but he is one of the more knowledgeable guys on this forum. thanks man.

102

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
If I don’t get some sugar post workout I’ll get dizzy/nauseated. On especially demanding days I’ve even started to see spots. Even when ingesting lots of pre-workout carbs. Maybe I’m diabetic.[/quote]

Not diabetic, probably just slightly poor paracrine signalling between the bata and alpha cells, signalling the cessation of insulin release. A kind of ‘hangover’ from elevated blood glucose during exercise, that triggers a secretory-phase insulin response that goes on a little bit too long for you as an individual.

Not sure if that is 100% right, since I just reasoned it out from physiological principals, never read it anywhere. Point is: take it for what it’s worth :wink:

BBB[/quote]

Any suggestions other than my simple fix of carbs?

103

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
If I don’t get some sugar post workout I’ll get dizzy/nauseated. On especially demanding days I’ve even started to see spots. Even when ingesting lots of pre-workout carbs. Maybe I’m diabetic.[/quote]

Not diabetic, probably just slightly poor paracrine signalling between the bata and alpha cells, signalling the cessation of insulin release. A kind of ‘hangover’ from elevated blood glucose during exercise, that triggers a secretory-phase insulin response that goes on a little bit too long for you as an individual.

Not sure if that is 100% right, since I just reasoned it out from physiological principals, never read it anywhere. Point is: take it for what it’s worth :wink:

BBB[/quote]

Any suggestions other than my simple fix of carbs?[/quote]
I do know that leucine is insulinogenic… do you take leucine? Ever try Finibars?

104

[quote]PB Andy wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
If I don’t get some sugar post workout I’ll get dizzy/nauseated. On especially demanding days I’ve even started to see spots. Even when ingesting lots of pre-workout carbs. Maybe I’m diabetic.[/quote]

Not diabetic, probably just slightly poor paracrine signalling between the bata and alpha cells, signalling the cessation of insulin release. A kind of ‘hangover’ from elevated blood glucose during exercise, that triggers a secretory-phase insulin response that goes on a little bit too long for you as an individual.

Not sure if that is 100% right, since I just reasoned it out from physiological principals, never read it anywhere. Point is: take it for what it’s worth :wink:

BBB[/quote]

Any suggestions other than my simple fix of carbs?[/quote]
I do know that leucine is insulinogenic… do you take leucine? Ever try Finibars?[/quote]

I’ve been using MAG-10 which does have a lot of leucine, but it happens with or without it.

I have tried fin bars, and just can’t eat them around training. Chocolate or peanutbutter during training makes me want to puke.

106

[quote]JaX Un wrote:

i just wanted to say that for the last 2 weeks or so i started taking my protein and carb source shake 30mins before working out and i have had incredible amounts of energy. After the workout i have a protein shake, no carbs then i down 12 eggs an hour later. and i am back to gaining

bonez types with an angry fist but he is one of the more knowledgeable guys on this forum. thanks man.[/quote]

That’s an awesome approach. How do you like your eggs? I can man up to eat that many if I scramble them. I’ve been thinking about cooking the whites separate and having the yolks raw (because it’s better for avoiding egg allergies this way), maybe mixing them into a chocolate frosting batter mixture using some erythritol (the best no carb sweetener I know of) and cocoa powder, maybe with some other no carb thickening agent too (I could add gelatin, and or refrigerate the mixture). I’m hoping to get it to taste just like frosting, or better. I might make a low carb flax/chia bread that has the whites in it, and put this frosting mixture on top.

107

I stopped taking carbs post workout about a month ago and moved them to pre workout and I can say workouts have felt much better. It feels much more natural to my body to wait an hour to an hour and half after training to eat because by then I’m fucking ready to chow down.

and bulletproof tiger, just drink the eggs raw. It sucks taste wise and your stomach doesn’t feel great the first couple times, but after that the taste becomes normal and your stomach should feel fine

108

[quote]PB Andy wrote:
It mentions things like Vitamin E, Vitamin C, Glutamine for pre/during workout, which I’ll try out sooner or later.[/quote]

actually there’s been a lot of research since the book was written suggesting that antioxidant supplements, such as vitamins e and c, can be detrimental towards recovery if consumed peri-workout. if you plan on taking antioxidant supplements, you’d probably be better off taking them at other times of the day.

109

[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:

[quote]JaX Un wrote:

i just wanted to say that for the last 2 weeks or so i started taking my protein and carb source shake 30mins before working out and i have had incredible amounts of energy. After the workout i have a protein shake, no carbs then i down 12 eggs an hour later. and i am back to gaining

bonez types with an angry fist but he is one of the more knowledgeable guys on this forum. thanks man.[/quote]

That’s an awesome approach. How do you like your eggs? I can man up to eat that many if I scramble them. I’ve been thinking about cooking the whites separate and having the yolks raw (because it’s better for avoiding egg allergies this way), maybe mixing them into a chocolate frosting batter mixture using some erythritol (the best no carb sweetener I know of) and cocoa powder, maybe with some other no carb thickening agent too (I could add gelatin, and or refrigerate the mixture). I’m hoping to get it to taste just like frosting, or better. I might make a low carb flax/chia bread that has the whites in it, and put this frosting mixture on top.[/quote]

eggowned is right, i drink the 12 eggs raw. I can’t take credit for this approach, Hungry4More brought it into these forums as far as i know. and he is a beast, so i figure it wouldn’t hurt if i followed him. he actually has quite a few of us doing it. Protein frosting sounds delicious, if you can pull that off, i might need some help making it, haha.

111

I am told that when raw the amount of protein we can pull out of eggs is almost halved vs. raw? (something like 51% vs. 95%?).

But hey if it works it works =]

112

On cycle I intend to keep the insulin rolling high however.

I drink fruit juice through the day on cycle at times and still lean out, just cant get enough cals in it seems.

113

[quote]oinky222 wrote:

[quote]PB Andy wrote:
It mentions things like Vitamin E, Vitamin C, Glutamine for pre/during workout, which I’ll try out sooner or later.[/quote]

actually there’s been a lot of research since the book was written suggesting that antioxidant supplements, such as vitamins e and c, can be detrimental towards recovery if consumed peri-workout. if you plan on taking antioxidant supplements, you’d probably be better off taking them at other times of the day.[/quote]

That’s interesting, do you know why exactly this is the case? Or can you direct me to studies where this is so? Just wondering for my own benefit.

114

[quote]PB Andy wrote:

[quote]oinky222 wrote:

[quote]PB Andy wrote:
It mentions things like Vitamin E, Vitamin C, Glutamine for pre/during workout, which I’ll try out sooner or later.[/quote]

actually there’s been a lot of research since the book was written suggesting that antioxidant supplements, such as vitamins e and c, can be detrimental towards recovery if consumed peri-workout. if you plan on taking antioxidant supplements, you’d probably be better off taking them at other times of the day.[/quote]

That’s interesting, do you know why exactly this is the case? Or can you direct me to studies where this is so? Just wondering for my own benefit.[/quote]

Can’t locate the study, but I believe it was along the lines of Reactive Oxygen Species (ROS) actually helping insulin sensitivity, thus their conclusion was that using anti-oxidants to negate ROS would eliminate this benefit of insulin sensitivity.

115

[quote]pro-a-ggression wrote:

[quote]plateau wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
If I don’t get some sugar post workout I’ll get dizzy/nauseated. On especially demanding days I’ve even started to see spots. Even when ingesting lots of pre-workout carbs. Maybe I’m diabetic.[/quote]

I thought it was the opposite, that this means you are sensitive to insulin? Anyone else?

Same issue for me, stopped taking simple carbs pwo 2-3 years ago and I’m still progressing.[/quote]

im sure your lying good sir.

it says in your name that youve hit a plateau - and have been stuck at it since you joined ;)[/quote]

“you’re a funny guy!” - 100 bonus points for the movie reference

116

[quote]PB Andy wrote:

[quote]oinky222 wrote:

[quote]PB Andy wrote:
It mentions things like Vitamin E, Vitamin C, Glutamine for pre/during workout, which I’ll try out sooner or later.[/quote]

actually there’s been a lot of research since the book was written suggesting that antioxidant supplements, such as vitamins e and c, can be detrimental towards recovery if consumed peri-workout. if you plan on taking antioxidant supplements, you’d probably be better off taking them at other times of the day.[/quote]

That’s interesting, do you know why exactly this is the case? Or can you direct me to studies where this is so? Just wondering for my own benefit.[/quote]

There was a Dave Barr article on here, he included studies at the end.

117

[quote]plateau wrote:

[quote]PB Andy wrote:

[quote]oinky222 wrote:

[quote]PB Andy wrote:
It mentions things like Vitamin E, Vitamin C, Glutamine for pre/during workout, which I’ll try out sooner or later.[/quote]

actually there’s been a lot of research since the book was written suggesting that antioxidant supplements, such as vitamins e and c, can be detrimental towards recovery if consumed peri-workout. if you plan on taking antioxidant supplements, you’d probably be better off taking them at other times of the day.[/quote]

That’s interesting, do you know why exactly this is the case? Or can you direct me to studies where this is so? Just wondering for my own benefit.[/quote]

There was a Dave Barr article on here, he included studies at the end.[/quote]

The studies silverhydra mentioned are more recent than those referenced the Barrticle.

118

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:

[quote]JaX Un wrote:

i just wanted to say that for the last 2 weeks or so i started taking my protein and carb source shake 30mins before working out and i have had incredible amounts of energy. After the workout i have a protein shake, no carbs then i down 12 eggs an hour later. and i am back to gaining

bonez types with an angry fist but he is one of the more knowledgeable guys on this forum. thanks man.[/quote]

That’s an awesome approach. How do you like your eggs? I can man up to eat that many if I scramble them. I’ve been thinking about cooking the whites separate and having the yolks raw (because it’s better for avoiding egg allergies this way), maybe mixing them into a chocolate frosting batter mixture using some erythritol (the best no carb sweetener I know of) and cocoa powder, maybe with some other no carb thickening agent too (I could add gelatin, and or refrigerate the mixture). I’m hoping to get it to taste just like frosting, or better. I might make a low carb flax/chia bread that has the whites in it, and put this frosting mixture on top.[/quote]

So you are concerned about possible egg allergies, yet you are happy to use artificial sweeteners and chocolate frosted batter mix, just to avoid this possible allergy?

Just drink the eggs and add some coconut milk if you want to further avoid the taste.

BBB[/quote]

I hear what you’re saying but egg allergies (from cooked eggs), but they are a lot more common than erythriol allergies as far as I know. Allergic reactions to eggs are generally caused by the changes that take place in the cooking process, hence not only for convenience/speed/efficacy, but health being another top reason to eat (at least the yolks) raw. Please let me know if you have info on erythriol allergies.

Also, I in the post above I talked about cooking the egg white. As to why I would do that and not drink the whole egg raw, for me it’s about that little thing in egg whites called avidin which is very effective at binding to the “B vitamin” biotin. The concern is that this can lead to a biotin deficiency. I’m not 100% sure if this is an issue if I’m taking a multi (half dose) and on a bulking diet (which surely provides a good amount of biotin), but I’d rather be safe than sorry considering the role of biotin in the body and combined with the fact that I’m considering eating what most would consider an abnormal amount of eggs on a daily basis. Also, from what i’ve read it can take weeks to years of raw egg white eating for a biotin deficiency to appear, and while overt in outward appearance of symptoms, I think such a condition would have a considerable impact on health and muscle building in the long haul.

Also, it’s not so much about the taste being unbearable as I can manage it on it’s own, I was just trying to improve upon something. I made a version of it the other day and it was pretty good. Erythriol is actually shown to be an antioxidant too! Nutrition | Journal | ScienceDirect.com by Elsevier

119

[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:

[quote]JaX Un wrote:

i just wanted to say that for the last 2 weeks or so i started taking my protein and carb source shake 30mins before working out and i have had incredible amounts of energy. After the workout i have a protein shake, no carbs then i down 12 eggs an hour later. and i am back to gaining

bonez types with an angry fist but he is one of the more knowledgeable guys on this forum. thanks man.[/quote]

That’s an awesome approach. How do you like your eggs? I can man up to eat that many if I scramble them. I’ve been thinking about cooking the whites separate and having the yolks raw (because it’s better for avoiding egg allergies this way), maybe mixing them into a chocolate frosting batter mixture using some erythritol (the best no carb sweetener I know of) and cocoa powder, maybe with some other no carb thickening agent too (I could add gelatin, and or refrigerate the mixture). I’m hoping to get it to taste just like frosting, or better. I might make a low carb flax/chia bread that has the whites in it, and put this frosting mixture on top.[/quote]

So you are concerned about possible egg allergies, yet you are happy to use artificial sweeteners and chocolate frosted batter mix, just to avoid this possible allergy?

Just drink the eggs and add some coconut milk if you want to further avoid the taste.

BBB[/quote]

I hear what you’re saying but egg allergies (from cooked eggs), but they are a lot more common than erythriol allergies as far as I know. Allergic reactions to eggs are generally caused by the changes that take place in the cooking process, hence not only for convenience/speed/efficacy, but health being another top reason to eat (at least the yolks) raw. Please let me know if you have info on erythriol allergies.

Also, I in the post above I talked about cooking the egg white. As to why I would do that and not drink the whole egg raw, for me it’s about that little thing in egg whites called avidin which is very effective at binding to the “B vitamin” biotin. The concern is that this can lead to a biotin deficiency. I’m not 100% sure if this is an issue if I’m taking a multi (half dose) and on a bulking diet (which surely provides a good amount of biotin), but I’d rather be safe than sorry considering the role of biotin in the body and combined with the fact that I’m considering eating what most would consider an abnormal amount of eggs on a daily basis. Also, from what i’ve read it can take weeks to years of raw egg white eating for a biotin deficiency to appear, and while overt in outward appearance of symptoms, I think such a condition would have a considerable impact on health and muscle building in the long haul.

Also, it’s not so much about the taste being unbearable as I can manage it on it’s own, I was just trying to improve upon something. I made a version of it the other day and it was pretty good. Erythriol is actually shown to be an antioxidant too! Nutrition | Journal | ScienceDirect.com by Elsevier [/quote]

Biotin deficiency would be a concern when somoene is consuming roughly 20 raw eggs at a time on a routine basis. Avoiding raw egg whites is fine, but having a few at a time wont be a problem for normally functioning people.

That information is pulled from wiki. It’s a bit ambiguous because it does not distinguish between whole eggs and raw eggs when saying that ~20 raw eggs can lead to biotin deficiency.

120

FWIW, I make protein pancakes using:

  • 1 cup of egg whites (from a carton)
  • 2 scoops Metabolic Drive
  • 3 tsp ground cinnamon
  • 1/4 tsp salt
  • 2 packets Splenda

I always taste the batter before cooking it, and it’s pretty damn tasty. So if you have a tough time downing your eggs, try adding in some cinnamon and Splenda. The Metabolic Drive wouldn’t be the best idea since it thickens up the batter, but 1 scoop might work.