Post Workout Carbs? Necessary or Not?

Nutrition
61

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

I certainly believe in hydrolysates, but not that casein is significantly better. I have my athletes use whey hydro + leucine + creatine all premixed into a relatively palatable drink. This is taken after training (and first thing in the AM).

Before training I think whey + leucine + simple carbs is a very nice ‘poor mans’ version of the anaconda protocol. Some of my athletes use insulin too though, just to be sure of the anabolic charge. It’s their choice and seems to elicit a good response, but today, when I used a new, improved drink, I had a freaky level of pump and vasculature, that rivals any insulin use I have tried. I suspect the pump was due to the addition of 30g of palatinose and the vasculature was due to the 600mg tyrosine.

However this is all dramatically enhanced by the fact that I consume almost no carbs at other times of the day; only pre and peri-workout. I had two training sessions today, so 2 x pre and peri workout carb drinks. Consuming low carbs = an excellent pump during training, due to the sudden perceived ‘overload’ of carbs. Fructose for the liver and glucose precursors for the muscles.

I am currently on an elimination diet, which I am trying (successfully) to modify for athletes/BBers, since the traditional elimination diet leaves the novice/unprepared participant with very limited food choices - from an anabolic perspective.

BBB[/quote]

I’m very interested in your daily macronutrient numbers for a lifting day after reading your only carbs are peri-WO. How many grams of carbs do you take in peri-WO and also how high do you take your fat (assuming you are eating P+F other meals) on a daily basis? Also could you expand on the “elimination diet” you’re exploring?

Oh and what in the hell are you flavoring the hydro drink with to make it palatable?!

62

[quote]silverhydra wrote:

[quote]jimmybango wrote:

Understood…My cardio isn’t entirely steady-state, as I like to work in different methods. I’ve just always liked morning and PW as good windows to hit your cardio sesssions.

Anyone else have any thoughts on the during workout carbs + PW cardio for fat loss?

Bango
[/quote]

What I am doing, and it is working pretty well, is thus;

I have my pre-wo shake and during wo shake, both are just whey, glucose, creatine, salt; and protease enzymes with the pre shake. My timing rivals that of the anaconda protocol of sipping for 45 min of the workout, and finishing the last 15 min without.

Afterwards, I just head to my locker and take some blood sugar support (Now using ELITE PRO) and some PS, then I do about 15 minutes of low-intensity cardio.

Have found no negative effects as of yet in terms of muscle loss or gain.
[/quote]

Nice…! Thanks for the info boss. Out of curiosity, how many carbs are in your pre/during shakes, relative to your overall carb intake for the day?

Bango

66

[quote]jimmybango wrote:

[quote]silverhydra wrote:

[quote]jimmybango wrote:

Understood…My cardio isn’t entirely steady-state, as I like to work in different methods. I’ve just always liked morning and PW as good windows to hit your cardio sesssions.

Anyone else have any thoughts on the during workout carbs + PW cardio for fat loss?

Bango
[/quote]

What I am doing, and it is working pretty well, is thus;

I have my pre-wo shake and during wo shake, both are just whey, glucose, creatine, salt; and protease enzymes with the pre shake. My timing rivals that of the anaconda protocol of sipping for 45 min of the workout, and finishing the last 15 min without.

Afterwards, I just head to my locker and take some blood sugar support (Now using ELITE PRO) and some PS, then I do about 15 minutes of low-intensity cardio.

Have found no negative effects as of yet in terms of muscle loss or gain.
[/quote]

Nice…! Thanks for the info boss. Out of curiosity, how many carbs are in your pre/during shakes, relative to your overall carb intake for the day?

Bango[/quote]

I’m doing a small body recomp right now and trying out a carb cycling approach. Consisting of 3 low days, 3 no days, and one high day; due to me being at university at the moment and needing to use my student account before it gets nulled at the end of the year, each ‘carb meal’ consists of a chicken or beef wrap (estimated at 40g carbs), 2 of them on the high days and them being my breakfast on the low days.

Aside from those, no carbs at meals and 50g glucose in my shakes during the workout.

I should also note that my cardio after workouts isn’t aimed for fat loss (as I suspect that yours may be) but more to get blood sugar out of my system and to my muscles.

Also learned that after back day at the gym, nothing beats grabbing the rowing machine with one arm and rowing away.

67

Of course there is a difference between carbs pre and carbs pre + peri. How could there not be :wink:

so whats the difference?..I’ve never understood…its seems like carbs during is the way to go but I know CT’s protocol calls for none and I’ve never really understood why, especially if size is desired…

Oh and the palatability of the drink is my secret I’m afraid.

its cool…I wasn’t expecting the secret formula…I’m actually getting used to the dry scoop with the chaser…and trying not to gag every scoop…and having my wife look at me like i’m crazy…and its smell of cat pee and bleach…eh…its worth it…

68

[quote]TiGeR_Beast913 wrote:
I am starting to doubt the need for post workout carbs…

I don’t know how some of you guys down a drink full of dextrose with the already sweet whey protein. That is enough to make a diabetic turn over and just die.

any thoughts?[/quote]

Great reasoning.

I mean, with all the great research that has shown optimal hydration and protein synthesis with peri-workout nutrition, your reasoning is great - especially for us NON-diabetics.

Thanks.

69

I like a lot of the “thinking” and “doubt” going on in these boards in the past year.

Like people “thinking” full-body workouts are better for OPTIMAL hypertrophy for the whole body.

Like people “doubting” peri-workout nutrition.

Like people “thinking” a certain frequency for a bodypart is optimal with disregard for other factors in a situation.

Like how I once “thought” Santa existed. Like I “thought” he skipped over my house because of my ethnicity.

Then my grandfather one time told me a few years ago, after I had been a grown adult for quite some time:

  1. “You don’t have to think.”

  2. “You’re not supposed to dream.”

70

If you are fat adapted, then the post workout carbs are unnecessary. I think CT mentioned something to that effect and Dr. DiPasquale most definitely did.

Nick Radonjic

71

With someone who is low on cash and restricted to the following items:

Surge (or an inferior equivalent)
Grow! Whey (or an inferior equivalent)
Creatine monohydrate

…what would you recommend (with approximate quantities) for:
a) Fat loss
b) Mass gain
c) Maintenance

?

72

[quote]MHRhabdo wrote:

[quote]no, carbs are not the fuel used by brain cells. GLUCOSE is the fuel used by your brain
[/quote]

and here I am thinking glucose is a carb… what was I thinking[/quote]

good question…what were you thinking. glucose doesnt have to come from a carb source, it can come from amino acids via gluconeogenesis.

73

[quote]benmoore wrote:
With someone who is low on cash and restricted to the following items:

Surge (or an inferior equivalent)
Grow! Whey (or an inferior equivalent)
Creatine monohydrate

…what would you recommend (with approximate quantities) for:
a) Fat loss
b) Mass gain
c) Maintenance

?[/quote]

How can anyone answer without knowing anything about the specific person.

74

If I don’t get some sugar post workout I’ll get dizzy/nauseated. On especially demanding days I’ve even started to see spots. Even when ingesting lots of pre-workout carbs. Maybe I’m diabetic.

75

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
If I don’t get some sugar post workout I’ll get dizzy/nauseated. On especially demanding days I’ve even started to see spots. Even when ingesting lots of pre-workout carbs. Maybe I’m diabetic.[/quote]

I sometimes get the same way, but just having some protein is enough for me.

76

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]benmoore wrote:
With someone who is low on cash and restricted to the following items:

Surge (or an inferior equivalent)
Grow! Whey (or an inferior equivalent)
Creatine monohydrate

…what would you recommend (with approximate quantities) for:
a) Fat loss
b) Mass gain
c) Maintenance

?[/quote]

How can anyone answer without knowing anything about the specific person.

[/quote]

Understood! For this individual, given body comp fat loss would be the priority. The other protocols (mass gain/maintenance) were simply so I could compare.

5’10
210lbs
High (20+%) bodyfat

I was thinking of 1 full serving of Surge about 10-15 mins pre workout…
P+C or straight P during first half of workout?
P+F of straight P about 30-60 mins post workout?

77

Always PWO carbs, always. Usually about 30ish grams 30-90 pre workout too.

78

[quote]hungry4more wrote:
Always PWO carbs, always. Usually about 30ish grams 30-90 pre workout too. [/quote]

I agree, and maybe I am wrong, but I have never heard of anyone recommending that you refrain from carbs pwo other than people on this site. Maybe everyone else is wrong, but I am siding with the majority for now.

79

Have people actually kept the total caloric intake the same (and just played with the timing), or is this just a case of increasing calories significantly around workouts and attributing the results solely to timing and not to a caloric excess?

Either way, I plan on playing around with my workout carbs to see what effect they have on me.

Way’s carb experiment in the T-Cell is a pretty interesting read, for those who haven’t read it:

80

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
If I don’t get some sugar post workout I’ll get dizzy/nauseated. On especially demanding days I’ve even started to see spots. Even when ingesting lots of pre-workout carbs. Maybe I’m diabetic.[/quote]

I thought it was the opposite, that this means you are sensitive to insulin? Anyone else?

Same issue for me, stopped taking simple carbs pwo 2-3 years ago and I’m still progressing.