Post Workout Carbs? Necessary or Not?

Diet and Nutrition
21

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]IronWarrior34 wrote:
even though some protein may be sweet it doesnt mean there are alot of sugars in it?? some people are going to argue that PWO carbs are necassary and others will argue thats they arent that important. But, in my opinion PWO carbs are definitely something you need especially after a tough workout…you just have to make sure your taking the proper amount of protein/carbs in that PWO shake…and im sure a Diabetic wouldnt have a double dose of Surge Recovery after a workout…

IronWarrior[/quote]

And where is this literature coming from? Not trying to be smart.

Interesting wording you chose “bad idea”. Why would it be bad if it’s worked so well for countless people up to 6 months ago before the whole “ANACONDA Protocol”?

Perhaps it may not be seen as optimal any more, but bad?

Carbs are needed for people looking to add muscle. But consuming carbs immediately after a workout with the goal of spiking insulin is a bad idea. There is a lot a lot of new-ish literature on this topic. [/quote]
[/quote]

With the amount you spend on supplements you cant tell me you havent read the “para-workout nutrition” stuff.

But unless CT is blatantly lying to us about how catecholamine levels increase after a workout, I cant see any way how consuming carbs in an attempt to spike insulin can do anything positive for body composition.
[/quote]

What I am getting at, is why is spiking insulin PWO an awful idea for body comp, if even CT was recommending doing such 6 months ago. The human body hasn’t changed, granted the science may be giving us a better picture of things. But to say carbs PWO is a bad idea is limited thinking IMO.

For fat loss, they may not be necessary or even ideal, for gaining muscle I don’t see the harm[/quote]

Considering the fact that you aren’t in elite shape, shouldn’t you be trying to do as much as possible to make improvements?

Why even pay attention to science or anything technical if you are going to disregard facts because theyre “only 6 months old”? The muscle is built using magic spells, right? A fat loss occurs because of ritual sacrifice.

[/quote]

Way to side step the argument. And since I’m not in elite shape, i doubt having carbs PWO is going to be detrimental for me ;)[/quote]

I just think it’s too easy to move a maltodextrin/whey shake to 30 minutes pre workout instead of post workout for this to even be an issue. If something that simple can provide even 5% better results I am definitely going to do it.

Have you at least tried having a carb/whey shake pre workout as opposed to post before passing judgment? [/quote]

I am not passing judgment, really just trying to say it’s not a “bad idea” to have protein/carbs PWO when many studies have shown it’s benefit.
That being said, I have used SR a few times prior/during workout, but not long enough to report anything on it.
I personally don’t see how having it before as opposed to after can provide significant differences physique wise, assuming all others things equal.

Right now I am still dieting, but I’m sure once I get back to SR (If I even do, may be a while) I will probably include it at the onset of training, to give it a better chance.

22

I have a WPI/maltodextrin drink during my workout. I aim to have a high-carb/high-protein meal 30-60 minutes afterwards. Other than the workout drink, my carbs are almost 100% oats and brown rice. Is this fine?

23

glycerol monostearate looks promising

24

While I believe there is some merit to the whole “carbs during WO rather than after” protocol, there is one thing I don’t understand. In both my physiology textbook and everywhere I’ve (quickly) looked on the web, catecholamines have a half life of a FEW minutes. That would mean that, realistically, all catecholamines could be cleared from circulation by the time you get home from the gym and whip up a post-WO whatever shake. Factor in the amount of time it takes to get most of the sugar into your blood stream, and it seems like the catecholamines wouldn’t have much of an effect at all.

Anybody who can shed some light on this for me, feel free to do so.

25

In my workout window I have 30g carbs before and after (Waxy Maize) and BCAA during. 20 mins after my PWO shake (immediately PWO) I have oats and whey. Working well for me.

26

1349×1015 87.5 KB

interactions of insulin, glucagon and epinephrine (catecholamine)
the graph shows that glucose concentrations (the top line) in the blood remain high when insulins action is opposed, and that glucagon and epiniephrine have a synergistic effect on one another

27

No matter what the effect on protein synthesis, I will fight for my right to postworkout carbs. I have meassured my blood sugar efter my workouts the last week, and even though i eat a reasonable meal pretty much right before working out, my blood glucose plummets to 70mg/dl, causing me to feel like total shit. This is completely reversible by shakingly and half-sleepingly eating a banana.

28

It’s all a matter of context.

I’ve done carbs/protein before and after, before and during, and just after. The before and during or the before and after always felt “right” to me. Studies and research change by the minute and many studies on the effectiveness of a certain macronutrient on whatever the heck they are testing are typically done in a fasted state anyway. Given a normal trainee who is eating like the bomb anyway then I really don’t see any reason to spike anything. The goal should be the transport of protein and a small amount of carbs do help that…but not in the amounts needed to spike insulin.

My peri-workout supps of choice lately have been BCAAs and carbs. BCAAs are like white golden diamonds.

Alan

29

[quote]Sharp4850 wrote:
catecholamines have a half life of a FEW minutes. That would mean that, realistically, all catecholamines could be cleared from circulation by the time you get home from the gym and whip up a post-WO whatever shake. Factor in the amount of time it takes to get most of the sugar into your blood stream, and it seems like the catecholamines wouldn’t have much of an effect at all[/quote]
My thoughts exactly.
Carbs is the only fuel used by brain cells.
http://www.fi.edu/learn/brain/carbs.html

So I assume it’s rather beneficial to have carbs Post-WO, in an effort to “feed” the brain, and reduce cortisol…

30

This thread is specifically talking about whether a faster digesting protein/carb shake immediately post workout is more effective than having it before or during or not at all, right? Eating a complex carb and protein meal some time (1-2 hours) after a workout is pretty much written in stone for growth and strength gains, isn’t it?

Just trying to clarify as the “PWO window” is something like 1-2 hours after a workout, because that is when the muscles are most receptive to carbohydrate and refilling glycogen stores if I am not mistaken.

31

[quote]tolismann wrote:

[quote]Sharp4850 wrote:
catecholamines have a half life of a FEW minutes. That would mean that, realistically, all catecholamines could be cleared from circulation by the time you get home from the gym and whip up a post-WO whatever shake. Factor in the amount of time it takes to get most of the sugar into your blood stream, and it seems like the catecholamines wouldn’t have much of an effect at all[/quote]
My thoughts exactly.
Carbs is the only fuel used by brain cells.
http://www.fi.edu/learn/brain/carbs.html

So I assume it’s rather beneficial to have carbs Post-WO, in an effort to “feed” the brain, and reduce cortisol…
[/quote]

no, carbs are not the fuel used by brain cells. GLUCOSE is the fuel used by your brain

32

[quote]Therizza wrote:
This thread is specifically talking about whether a faster digesting protein/carb shake immediately post workout is more effective than having it before or during or not at all, right? Eating a complex carb and protein meal some time (1-2 hours) after a workout is pretty much written in stone for growth and strength gains, isn’t it?

Just trying to clarify as the “PWO window” is something like 1-2 hours after a workout, because that is when the muscles are most receptive to carbohydrate and refilling glycogen stores if I am not mistaken.[/quote]

That is what I was talking about, at least.

That whole post workout window is over hyped. Bodybuilders should be eating as often as possible and I dont know anyone who takes it seriously that will workout then go to bed without eating.

And about glycogen storage. Im almost 100% certain that the only people who need to worry about that are endurance athletes. Lifting weights for an hour isn’t enough.

33

[quote]tolismann wrote:

[quote]Sharp4850 wrote:
catecholamines have a half life of a FEW minutes. That would mean that, realistically, all catecholamines could be cleared from circulation by the time you get home from the gym and whip up a post-WO whatever shake. Factor in the amount of time it takes to get most of the sugar into your blood stream, and it seems like the catecholamines wouldn’t have much of an effect at all[/quote]
My thoughts exactly.
Carbs is the only fuel used by brain cells.
http://www.fi.edu/learn/brain/carbs.html

So I assume it’s rather beneficial to have carbs Post-WO, in an effort to “feed” the brain, and reduce cortisol…
[/quote]

Why wouldnt the carbs taken in throughout the rest of the day, including directly before the workout, be used to fuel the brain? No one is saying to avoid carbs if somoene wants to build muscle. Just move them from directly after the workout to directly before it.

34

I think the biggest thing is the fact that you should be having carbs after workout if youve had not enough before hand. To restore glycogen levels depleted during your workout.

BUT

Assuming you know anything about good nutrition and body composition. Fast-digested carbs such as sugar from dextrose, maltodextrose, waxy maize, table sugar, should be consumed about an hour before and then during a workout, to maintain workout intensity. Assuming this is done, there isnt as much a need for carbs post workout, besides say… some low GI food like wholemeal bread, pasta or rice. Yes, the carbs may promote anabolism after a little, but nothing like fast-digested protein source like WPI or even better hydrolized whey would.

35

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Why wouldnt the carbs taken in throughout the rest of the day, including directly before the workout, be used to fuel the brain? No one is saying to avoid carbs if somoene wants to build muscle. Just move them from directly after the workout to directly before it.
[/quote] Cortisol is usually elevated in the morning (upon awakening), and after exercise.
So, cortisol-wise, it’s more beneficial IMO to eat carbs POST-WO.
PRE-WO, green tea, tyrosine & creatine do the trick for me.

36

[quote]tolismann wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Why wouldnt the carbs taken in throughout the rest of the day, including directly before the workout, be used to fuel the brain? No one is saying to avoid carbs if somoene wants to build muscle. Just move them from directly after the workout to directly before it.
[/quote] Cortisol is usually elevated in the morning (upon awakening), and after exercise.
So, cortisol-wise, it’s more beneficial IMO to eat carbs POST-WO.
PRE-WO, green tea, tyrosine & creatine do the trick for me.
[/quote]

Have you tried both approaches? or not.

37

[quote]MODOK wrote:
You folks REALLY need to read “Nutrient Timing” by Ivey and Portman. Seriously.[/quote]

added to my April Amazon.com order :slight_smile:

38

[quote]tolismann wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Why wouldnt the carbs taken in throughout the rest of the day, including directly before the workout, be used to fuel the brain? No one is saying to avoid carbs if somoene wants to build muscle. Just move them from directly after the workout to directly before it.
[/quote] Cortisol is usually elevated in the morning (upon awakening), and after exercise.
So, cortisol-wise, it’s more beneficial IMO to eat carbs POST-WO.
PRE-WO, green tea, tyrosine & creatine do the trick for me.
[/quote]

From my understanding the studies talking about a spike in cortisol PWO were done on people who hadn’t eaten anything prior to working out.

39

Guys help! I, too, am struggling with the concept of all the carbs in Surge Workout Fuel and Surge Recovery - for me, especially when combined for my 3 major work-outs per week. At 142 lbs and 5’ 2" and trying to lean out, that’s a hell of a lot of carbs in a very short period of time.

40

[quote]no, carbs are not the fuel used by brain cells. GLUCOSE is the fuel used by your brain
[/quote]

and here I am thinking glucose is a carb… what was I thinking