A good place for a roundtable discussion on proper dosages for fish oil would have to start with the risks associated with megadosing and hemhoragic stroke. There are reasons why physicians do not condone megadosing.
[quote]sroberts wrote:
A good place for a roundtable discussion on proper dosages for fish oil would have to start with the risks associated with megadosing and hemhoragic stroke. There are reasons why physicians do not condone megadosing.[/quote]
You raised the issue. Now address it.
I take a 1oz shot of Carlsons with lunch and supper. I had surgery on my knee 3 years ago, and the only time it bothers me is when i’m not taking any fish oil.
[quote]Backlash79 wrote:
B.b. in stress! wrote:
i definitely noticed fat loss. DEFINITELY.
however, i had a question. does he prescribe his amount of fish oil year-round? he said somewhere that lack of omege-3s may be the thing holding back our progress
On page 8 jaybee responded:
"Just so you know, Charles says that 45g of Fish Oils equates to about half the Omega-3 content. So, 45g will be about 22.5g of Omega-3. That’s the proportions he’s thinking about when recommending the 45g.
45g is also the max he recommends taking.
Charles also recommends you take about 1200IU of Vit E with this large does of Fish Oil.
And after a month or two of taking 45g of Fish Oil, you can drop it down to 15-20g.
It’s also worth swapping the Fish Oils you take every 8 days or so. Your body gets used to one type very quickly. All you need to do is get slightly different mixtures (different %'s of EPA & DPA) or another brand. Just swap between the two.
I know all this because I’m a Level 1 PICP coach ;-)"
[/quote]
Ok so based on these numbers how many teaspoons of Carlsons oil would I need to be taking a day?
[quote]icecold wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
eic wrote:
Tokendude wrote:
BTW, I’m one of those freak heart patients, as I’ve posted previously. Never smoked, never had diabetes, never been excessively overweight, ran cross country in High School, ran regularly ~5 miles/day up until about age 30 when work became too demanding, never had high cholesterol, etc., etc.
Your history of excessive cardiovascular activity is a big red flag, not a mitigating factor. I’ve seen emerging information which suggests that, beyond a certain threshold, additional cardiovascular activity does not strengthen the heart anymore; it simply inflames the tissue. Sort of like localized overtraining for the heart. That might be the first thing I’d consider.
Pretty unlikely. When they’ve isolated confounds like poor diet out, the incidence of heart disease in endurance athletes is EXTREMELY low.
The HDL is a concern though. Whatever the pro-cholesterol people say, people with low HDL commonly have heart problems, whether or not they have high LDL. Fish oil is great for HDL. It really helps raise it. So do walnuts and other sources of polyunsaturated fat.
I got pissed when getting regular cardio, eating clean, and taking a lot of fish oil and my HDL actually went down a little. My LDL and triglycerides went down significantly, so it is not supervising that in theory my HDL went down some also. My HDL is only in the 30s. I was hoping to actually raise my HDL.
I then did more research on fish oil and it seems there are many studies with strong evidence for fish oil lowering LDL and triglycerides. The studies also show fish oil did nothing for HDL. So I guess my results help to support their findings.
For almost everyone exercise and diet significantly lowers LDL. For many in also raises HDL significantly and for some it does little to nothing.
I have concluded that if I want to increase my HDL I may try: curcumin, and a daily glass of OJ or Concord grape juice. The juice may raise LDL and triglycerides slightly but I like the trade off if it works. I am not going to take Niacin at this point. I like red wine and a glass a day would most likely help, but I still feel that the cons outweigh the pros for justifying drinking alcohol daily. I may change my mind if my HDL still does not budge next time. I have a large family and their history is actually pretty clean for the most part for heart disease. The exception is a grandfather that died in late 50s from a heart attack (he was heavy smoker and drinker).
Unfortunately HDL is the stronger genetic component and the one harder to change through lifestyle or drugs also.
Sorry to get off topic. If my HDL ever goes up I will post my results.
[/quote]
Good luck dude. I have read about fish oil and other sources of polyunsaturated fat boosting HDL. But maybe not.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
sroberts wrote:
A good place for a roundtable discussion on proper dosages for fish oil would have to start with the risks associated with megadosing and hemhoragic stroke. There are reasons why physicians do not condone megadosing.
You raised the issue. Now address it.[/quote]
Blanket statement with now follow up whatsoever; typical. Risk associated with megadosing fish oil and hemorrhagic stroke? Please share your information, I have not heard of such an association.
[quote]BoxBabaX wrote:
Blanket statement with now follow up whatsoever; typical. Risk associated with megadosing fish oil and hemorrhagic stroke? Please share your information, I have not heard of such an association.
[/quote]
Yeah, the guy’s an idiot. Hemorrhagic stroke is most often caused by high blood pressure.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000761.htm
Fish oil is known to lower blood pressure.
It’s also worth noting that the poster misspelled “hemorrhagic”. LOL.
CaliforniaLaw Here you go.
This is from http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/reprint/106/21/2747
I didn’t read all of it because I haven’t had time, but it basically says that the population wasn’t large enough for the study to be any good.
Would it be bad to take high doses of fish oil along with an anti-inflammatory?
[quote]tveddy wrote:
CaliforniaLaw Here you go.
The evidence to date is primarily for total stroke risk, and associations could differ if the data were analyzed for type-specific stroke incidence. For example, evidence exists for an inverse relationship between small intakes of fish (1 portion per week) and ischemic stroke32 and for a possible increased risk for hemorrhagic stroke with “Eskimo” intakes of omega-3 fatty acids.40 Thus, as Zhang et al8 have noted, linking fish consumption with total stroke risk is likely to underestimate the strength of the real associations between fish consumption and type-specific stroke risk.
This is from http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/reprint/106/21/2747
I didn’t read all of it because I haven’t had time, but it basically says that the population wasn’t large enough for the study to be any good.
[/quote]
The statistics do, in fact, bear out that the cultures that eat the most fish have more hemorrhagic stroke. Fish oils have a blood thinning and anti-clotting effect, so bleeding conditions of all kinds are probably exaccerbated by fish oil.
Now, those same cultures also have lower incidence of ischemic stroke. This makes sense because of fish oil’s afroementioned anti-clotting effects.
Now, I happen to think that this is a pattern to take in general. Do you want to risk bleeding diseases or fatty diseases? I, personally, will take my chances with hemorrhagic stroke and continue to use moderate to large doses of fish oil.
A good look at the epidemiology relevant to the discussion can be found in… I can’t remember now, but I’ll throw in the title when I can find it. It’s a little blue book with a 2000’s publication date in the ISU library…
Everyone keep this thread going. I am extremely interested in the results of the posters who are doing their own self-experimentation, as well as anyone who finds solid research data.
All of this has piqued my interest greatly, so a roundtable discussion by the brain trust might just be warranted.
[quote]conorh wrote:
Now, I happen to think that this is a pattern to take in general. Do you want to risk bleeding diseases or fatty diseases? I, personally, will take my chances with hemorrhagic stroke and continue to use moderate to large doses of fish oil.
A good look at the epidemiology relevant to the discussion can be found in… I can’t remember now, but I’ll throw in the title when I can find it. It’s a little blue book with a 2000’s publication date in the ISU library…
[/quote]
The study cited in the article that I read said there was a possible risk of hemmorhagic stroke in a population of 1800 people over a 24 year span. That isn’t convincing to me, but you must obviously know something that I don’t.
If you can find the name of the book I’d appreciate it, or better yet, the studies that it cites. Also as you mentioned, it’s total risk stroke that matters.
Week 2 summary:
Still taking 12 Flameouts + 12 Generic Fish oil capsules daily (Generic are alternated between two different brands).
Basically I’ve still seen little to no change. Of course the mind really plays tricks with one here (ala placebo effect)…
To be more specific,
Skin - seems the same. Certainly no softer. Perhaps a little drier.
Joints - perhaps a little better. It becomes hard to differentiate between muscle pain and joint pain however, and since I’ve started some new activities (FP softball and baseball), I’ve been sore, but not in the joints.
Sleep - No change. I think I may not ache quite as bad now, but again, hard to say for sure.
Allergies and psoriasis - no effect. Of course no one said there would be. I was just hoping for a “magic bullet” here… particularly for the psoriasis.
Bleeding - no change, and no I didn’t stick myself on purpose. I work with my hands however and get the usual cuts. Clotting seems the same, but I do take 1/2 aspirin daily already.
Immune System - Somebody mentioned a concern here. No issue for me.
Lastly I seem to be experiencing occasional “flushing” like when taking large doses of Niacin or taking Biotest’s Beta 7. Not as extreme as either, and not a problem for me. Just noted the condition.
Back again after week 3.
TD
My fat loss had stalled. So I gave the “mega dose” a try. Fat loss is accelerating like mad. I went from stalling to dropping 3 pounds in ten days. No other changes in diet or exercise.
I’m using between 24-36 grams of fish oil. This amounts to 4800-7200 grams of EPA and 3000-4500 grams of DHA.
A note on fish oil’s anti-inflammatory properties.
On Sunday I landed on my shoulder. Really hard. I couldn’t move my shoulder.
I kept ingesting mega-doses of fish oil and icing it. After a couple of days, I started feeling ready to get back into action. I figured it was a mild “bone bruise.” I decided to see my ART guy before training again - just to make sure I was healthy.
Turns out I suffered a 2-degree AC shoulder sprain. My doc said most people would need two weeks to heal as quickly as I had healed in 3 days.
I’m still not completely better, of course, but I’m at least 75% better healed than I’d be.
(Also worth noting is that I eat a diet rich in anti-inflammatory foods - lots of vegetables and monounsaturated fats.)
[quote]the MaxX wrote:
Everyone keep this thread going. I am extremely interested in the results of the posters who are doing their own self-experimentation, as well as anyone who finds solid research data.
All of this has piqued my interest greatly, so a roundtable discussion by the brain trust might just be warranted.[/quote]
Agreed, I’m extremely interested in this topic!
I have had unbelievable results with Fish Oil. I take about 20 per day and everyone asks me how I am so lean. I tell them Fish Oil and they just laugh.
Week Three - Basically still the same. The two main things I have noticed is that I have been bloated for about a week now, and I have begun to dread taking fish oil capsules.
Skin may be a little bit softer.
Joints are probably better. I’ve really ramped up my activity levels from before I began this experiment and suffer no joint discomfort whatsoever (at age 45 this is somewhat surprising), so I guess this is a plus.
Sleep in the last week has been very problematic/fragmented. Go to bed exhausted, sleep for about 1/2 hour, then wake up and flop around for about 2 hours before I go back to sleep for good (at 2am). I have repeated this cycle for the last 4 consecutive nights.
I probably would have quit were it not for wanting to see what effect this has had on my blood lipid profile.
Roy