Please Help a Demoralized Lifter

Training Bodybuilding
1

Hello everyone,

I’m new to this board and I decided to post this topic here because I wanted opinions/recommendations from experienced knowledgable bodybuilders. I’m 33 years old, I’ve been lifting regularly for the past 3 years and I’ve recently become demoralized to the point of considering throwing in the towel.

I was hoping to get some inspiration/recemmendations from some of you here that will make me continue bodybuilding with a new degree of success. As I’ve said I’ve been lifting regulary for the past 3 years with varying degrees of success. I’ve tried several different programs to include Doggcrapp, 5/3/1, 5 X 5, and a host of splits. I found all of these programs to be beneficial to a certain extent, but then I fry out and look for the next “best” thing.

My main problems are that along the way I’ve never truly modified my diet nor maintained a steady cardio program along with whatever weight lifting program I was on. When it comes to the weights I consider myself very dedicated and I rarely miss gym days. I also do not lack for intensity. I’m not looking for an “easy” way out here, but with a new daughter and a demanding job I just find that I burn out more quickly than I used to.

I probably easily need to lose 30lbs, but I’d also like to lift at the same time so I don’t lose muscle/strength and I’d like to limit my time in the gym to 1.5hrs no more than 4 times per week. Are there any programs as a part of a long term strategy to get huge within these parameters while staying natural? If the answer is no and I’m being unrealistic that’s fine, but I’d like to keep trying rather than quit. I’m just tired of being aimless in the gym.

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[quote]jicjac wrote:
My main problems are that along the way I’ve never truly modified my diet nor maintained a steady cardio program along with whatever weight lifting program I was on. [/quote]

I think you know what you need to do.
If you want to lose weight, then modify your diet.
If you want to gain weight, then modify your diet.
Either way, figure out which one it is, make it your goal, and adjust accordingly.
Problem solved.

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Please refer to my lengthy “Bodybuilding Bible” thread; it addresses all your concerns - even your LIFESTYLE concerns!

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Jim Wendler: That’s just the way Dave [Tate] is. My friend told me a story about attending one of Dave’s first seminars. He was grilling him about the bench press, asking him all sorts of complicated questions. Finally, my friend put Dave on the spot and said, “Seriously, if you were me, what would you do?”

Dave just looked him in the eye and said, “I’d probably just fucking quit.”

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[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Please refer to my lengthy “Bodybuilding Bible” thread; it addresses all your concerns - even your LIFESTYLE concerns![/quote]

yeah this is better advice

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5/3/1, 4x/week. Start light. Rotate assistance work to keep from getting stale/burning out/whatever. Or you could do 3x/week, rotating through the 4 main lifts. Do some conditioning afterwards, either hill sprints/prowler pushes like Wendler recommends or at least some time on the treadmill. Don’t eat complete shit. You’re not talking about getting an elite total or entering a BB contest; it’s really not that hard to lean up and stay in shape.

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good luck brah

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[quote]twisner wrote:
5/3/1, 4x/week. Start light. Rotate assistance work to keep from getting stale/burning out/whatever. Or you could do 3x/week, rotating through the 4 main lifts. Do some conditioning afterwards, either hill sprints/prowler pushes like Wendler recommends or at least some time on the treadmill. Don’t eat complete shit. You’re not talking about getting an elite total or entering a BB contest; it’s really not that hard to lean up and stay in shape. [/quote]

THIS^

Consistent is more important than program, intensity, or volume. Not a big diet guy but if you are fat eat less. Meaning? Knock off booze, sweets, and eating after dark. Yes it is possible to kick ass with a life and natural. You just have to work smart and do it over and over and over again.

If it was easy, everybody would do it.

Good luck.

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[quote]jackreape wrote:

[quote]twisner wrote:
5/3/1, 4x/week. Start light. Rotate assistance work to keep from getting stale/burning out/whatever. Or you could do 3x/week, rotating through the 4 main lifts. Do some conditioning afterwards, either hill sprints/prowler pushes like Wendler recommends or at least some time on the treadmill. Don’t eat complete shit. You’re not talking about getting an elite total or entering a BB contest; it’s really not that hard to lean up and stay in shape. [/quote]

THIS^

Consistent is more important than program, intensity, or volume. Not a big diet guy but if you are fat eat less. Meaning? Knock off booze, sweets, and eating after dark. Yes it is possible to kick ass with a life and natural. You just have to work smart and do it over and over and over again.

If it was easy, everybody would do it.[/quote]

Definitely agree with this advice.

You said you “probably need to lose 30 pounds”, but what’s your current height and weight?

[quote]jicjac wrote:
I probably easily need to lose 30lbs, but I’d also like to lift at the same time so I don’t lose muscle/strength and I’d like to limit my time in the gym to 1.5hrs no more than 4 times per week. Are there any programs as a part of a long term strategy to get huge within these parameters while staying natural?[/quote]

Man… Doggcrapp training, 5/3/1, and most 5x5 plans are already right in those parameters. If you didn’t/couldn’t stick with it, that’s on you. But it’s good that you’re recognizing it.

I’d also suggest you consider Joe DeFranco’s Training Rules for Washed Up Meatheads:

It’s a solid overall plan that incorporates finishers to help burn the fat you’re looking for.

Nutrition-wise, you don’t have to get crazy with it. Simple, simple things, like Jack suggested, will be fine to start. Or look into some basic carb cycling. (Eat less carbs on days you don’t train, relatively-more on days you do):

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[quote]jicjac wrote:
I’ve recently become demoralized to the point of considering throwing in the towel.[/quote]

Had to be said, buddy. :wink:

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Lack of recovery, food and particular goal are the main culprits here.

Honestly, try to find ways of managing stress, and getting good sound sleep (must be difficult right now lol).

As regards food, at the beginning of the day, make up a high calorie shake (e.g. 1-2 litres worth) and drink throughout the day. Even if you only had one or two large solid meals, you will still get in your required calorie amount with the shake. If you don’t see much improvement after two weeks (e.g. lifts going up), increase calories per day by about 500 cals. Repeat if necessary.

You need to get a goal in mind, then you can get more motivation and focus. Don’t get confused with trying to do two things at once (this rarely works out well). If you need to shed 20lbs of fat, do that first, and focus only on that. Then, focus on building muscle…for a long time.

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Also, there are different levels of “bigness”.

For example, huge could mean 250-300lb (lean)

Big may be around the 200lb mark (lean).

Obviously other factors such as height, muscle bellies etc come into play too.

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maybe you can go to the bodybuilding bilble thread
seriously it’s a good thread you should check it out

14

Well I may not know a lot, but I know that you’ll never achieve your goals if you throw in the towel.
And like wakiki said, you know what you need to do. So do it!

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EVERYONE HERE IS WRONG! lol…To some extent…the guy said he is “I found all of these programs to be beneficial to a certain extent, but then I fry out and look for the next “best” thing.”

This is the main thing…it actually doesn’t matter exactly what program you are using…but what you are doing is definately burning yourself out, stressing over your diet, and your lack of progress will also demoralize you. I don’t care what anyone says, but I’ve felt the same way this guy has…you feel lost, helpless…I mean no1 is training you, are you doing the right things etc etc.
I used to be like that but of course over time I kept reading and I can definaetly say I’m on the right path.
Which leads me to the next point: He has those same feelings I just talked about.

If he does the recommended 5/3/1, 5x5…it doesn’t matter…hell I’ve done ALL those programs and programs I’ve made up on my own…and then eventaully burn out.

Okay first of all you gotta eat better, more healthy…whatever it is you gotta do for that.

SECOND…you have to manipulate your training frequency…I think what you are doing is training very hard liek you said and then burn out, realize okay whats the next thing to bring the next set of gains I want (a program hopper)

You need to manipulate your TRAINING FREQUENCY…if you are busting your ass for 3-4 weeks doing max effort lifts etc etc. you need to definaetly lower volume and intensity for a week…or you can keep training hard until performance drops off…once performance drops off (strength levels arent going up anymore, or you are actually DECREASING IN STRENGTH) stop immediately and back off…either take a day out of lifting, lower volume (BY HALF!) and keep intensity at 80%.

Listen man I know you can do this, I uesd to be stuck…I would be at my top strength and just burn out and start from the start again!!! Very frustrating.

I HIGHLY recommend you read this article

Read this, and while reading you’ll see somethnig under “General Size and Strength” you can follow that recommendation…you don’t ahve to be so strict with exercises selection but i think for you it’s important you follow the guidelines…also don’t be afraid to add in a efw omre isolation type moves for an overall better physique in the program it won’t harm you. And click on the link under that called “The Ultimate Split” to see what kind of transition you should make when going to 4x a week to 3x a week.
Remember the exercises are a guideline…pick what works for you, and dont be afraid to add some iso moves in (rear raises, face pulls, laterl raises etc etc.)

**LASTLY - goals - you need goals…what are you looking for…fat loss mostly? If that’s the case I recommend the ultimate split…you will train 3x a week and the other days you do your conditioing. The ultimate split link can be found in the article.

Lastly up your protein intake, get most cargbs from fruits and veggies, before training get most of your carbs (big meal of carbs, say potatoes and chicken + salad - train - post workout shake, some simple carbs + protein shake (you could do this before workout as well)- and then an hour after workout another big carb meal and what not. Throughout the day have a snack like protein shake and almonds with walnuts…anything like that.
I’ll leave the nutrition though up to the other guys, as they know better. I just eat lots and healthy cause I do so much activity so for me to eat clean 100% is actually detriminal to my goals.

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READ THE BODYBUILDING BIBLE as well…the Ultimate Split in that article ahs the link to it - it follows the same guidelines as the bodybuilding (just not as many exercises)…like I said though you can add. It goes by the same guideline of “blasting” but in the article it will be called the “money-set method”. It’s all the same, it’s just ramping. Hope this helps somewhat, keep shootin questions man…I don’t like when grown ass men give up, and remember 15 years from now your gonna have to scare the boys that will try to get your daughter ;).

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[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]jicjac wrote:
I’ve recently become demoralized to the point of considering throwing in the towel.[/quote]

Had to be said, buddy. :wink:
[/quote]

that’s the best advice for just about anything.

Dude, quit whining and get to the gym. it’s not about a program, it’s about working out. Read a book, study some technique, try something that looks like it might work. Try if for six months or a year. Add some functional stuff. Try kettlebells, try the god damn body pump class, try something, anything. Like my dad used to say, (may he rest in peace) “do something, even if it’s wrong.”

18

[quote]rasturai wrote:
EVERYONE HERE IS WRONG! lol…To some extent…the guy said he is “I found all of these programs to be beneficial to a certain extent, but then I fry out and look for the next “best” thing.”

This is the main thing…it actually doesn’t matter exactly what program you are using…but what you are doing is definately burning yourself out, stressing over your diet, and your lack of progress will also demoralize you. I don’t care what anyone says, but I’ve felt the same way this guy has…you feel lost, helpless…I mean no1 is training you, are you doing the right things etc etc.
I used to be like that but of course over time I kept reading and I can definaetly say I’m on the right path.
Which leads me to the next point: He has those same feelings I just talked about.

If he does the recommended 5/3/1, 5x5…it doesn’t matter…hell I’ve done ALL those programs and programs I’ve made up on my own…and then eventaully burn out.

Okay first of all you gotta eat better, more healthy…whatever it is you gotta do for that.

SECOND…you have to manipulate your training frequency…I think what you are doing is training very hard liek you said and then burn out, realize okay whats the next thing to bring the next set of gains I want (a program hopper)

You need to manipulate your TRAINING FREQUENCY…if you are busting your ass for 3-4 weeks doing max effort lifts etc etc. you need to definaetly lower volume and intensity for a week…or you can keep training hard until performance drops off…once performance drops off (strength levels arent going up anymore, or you are actually DECREASING IN STRENGTH) stop immediately and back off…either take a day out of lifting, lower volume (BY HALF!) and keep intensity at 80%.

Listen man I know you can do this, I uesd to be stuck…I would be at my top strength and just burn out and start from the start again!!! Very frustrating.

I HIGHLY recommend you read this article

Read this, and while reading you’ll see somethnig under “General Size and Strength” you can follow that recommendation…you don’t ahve to be so strict with exercises selection but i think for you it’s important you follow the guidelines…also don’t be afraid to add in a efw omre isolation type moves for an overall better physique in the program it won’t harm you. And click on the link under that called “The Ultimate Split” to see what kind of transition you should make when going to 4x a week to 3x a week.
Remember the exercises are a guideline…pick what works for you, and dont be afraid to add some iso moves in (rear raises, face pulls, laterl raises etc etc.)

**LASTLY - goals - you need goals…what are you looking for…fat loss mostly? If that’s the case I recommend the ultimate split…you will train 3x a week and the other days you do your conditioing. The ultimate split link can be found in the article.

Lastly up your protein intake, get most cargbs from fruits and veggies, before training get most of your carbs (big meal of carbs, say potatoes and chicken + salad - train - post workout shake, some simple carbs + protein shake (you could do this before workout as well)- and then an hour after workout another big carb meal and what not. Throughout the day have a snack like protein shake and almonds with walnuts…anything like that.
I’ll leave the nutrition though up to the other guys, as they know better. I just eat lots and healthy cause I do so much activity so for me to eat clean 100% is actually detriminal to my goals.
[/quote]

You’re right to a certain extent, but it’s not just about overtraining (i.e. pushing too hard in the gym or excessive frequency/volume). It’s under-eating/stress/bad sleep. More-so, under-eating.

The OP is saying that just after 3 or 4 weeks, he burns out. You wouldn’t do this on those decent programs he was following, if he was eating enough for his body (and/or, getting decent rest). I bet the OP hasn’t put on weight in over a month. I bet that he even tries to lose fat at the same time (he’s obviously going to burn out doing this).

I used to think that I needed to lower the volume/intensity all the time, until I realised that I just needed to eat like an animal on a long term bases (e.g. 5000+ per day). I bet the OP doesn’t eat near this…in fact, I’d go as far as saying that because of the OP’s indecisiveness, or lack of direct goals, that he probably diets at some times, and tries to bulk at others. Apart from the fact that dieting and trying to gain muscle/strength at the same time doesn’t work, it takes more than just a few weeks of high calories to cope with decent workouts/ongoing strength gains (for the average ‘Joe’).

If you followed those good programs for at least 12 weeks and THEN gains started stagnating somewhat, THEN maybe you could say cut back the intensity/volume for a short period to “bounce back”. But just 3 or 4 weeks and then “burn out” means that either the workouts are ridiculous (not in this case), or the individual isn’t eating/resting enough.

A side note on sets:
A good way of managing fatigue is to use the ramping method recommended by CT.

19

[quote]rasturai wrote:

I HIGHLY recommend you read this article

[/quote]

very good info indeed

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I’d still say you could sure burn out after 3-4 weeks of intense lifting. I’ve done it several times where gains will definaetly come to a half the 3rd or 4th week and I am not feeling well, joints are starting to get a bit sore, and I need to cut back on that week. I mean this is me training at a pretty high volume and HIGH intensity, which obviosuly makes a difference. As well as many other factors involved.

As well your completely right, eating/sleeping. Try to get 7 hours a night if your only getting 5 and I’m sure your gains will be better, and as for eating. I’m not too good at the nutrition thing, but pretty much the advice in the bodybuilding bible covers it.

OP how clean are you eating? For real just starting eating clean and follow the guidlines in those articles man and I"m sure you will make gains. I recommend you make SMALL short term goals as well, and focus on those before you focus on the long term ones. I always used to think…oh 6 months from now I’ll ebcnh this and that…but these things can get unrealistic…I much bettter now liek to focus on bettering myself week to week, or in a monthly training plan want to hit certain numbers etc. I’m actually much more focused this way.

But yeah like I said man, follow a solid program from above, add some of your cardio if you’d like…you could even do circuts if you want…sledgehammer, jump rope etc etc.

And try to eat cleaner.

Get 1-1.2g of protein per lb. BW, and I’m sure your body composition will change. Get it from the sources of protein listed in that bodybuilding bible thread, as well keep most carbs before and after workout, and in the morning I think is a good time to eat a higher carb breakfast to start your day (body has been neglected all night, need to replenish).

So already that’s 3 meals that will have higher carbs in it…morning…an hour - hour half or even 2 before your workout, and then after your workout.
During the day just snack on protein…maybe some chicken and salad with olive oil, a handful of almonds with a protein shake or beef jerky.

Lots of idea’s, just play with it. And of course it’s gonna be tough to eat 100% clean all the time…so allow yourself a few cheat meals…if your eating 6x a week (3 big meals - morn, before workout, after) and then 3 snacks during the day. thats 6 meals a day…if you eat like taht 7 days a week that’s 42 meals/snacks a week. Use the 90% rule. eat clean 90% of the tmie, and 10% do your thing.

So out of 42 meals, you can allow yourself 4 cheat meals. (4 cheat meals during those 7 days) and that should satisfy any cravings you mightve had before, and eventaully you might not even want those cheat meals. Of course don’t eat a whole entire cake haha but please yourself.