Plateau w/ Bulk, Gained Too Much Fat

Training Bodybuilding
41

The original post that was edited/erased.

[quote]Goodfellow wrote:
DISCLAIMER: Yes I am skinny, pale and look like I just smoked a bowl. However this is a serious post and I need some advice.

I would say I’m at 13-16% body fat, and until today I was set on bulking.

Until I read Thibs’s article about Bulking.

He said that if you are BB’ng for aesthetics that you should cut down to 10% body fat and then gain muscle gradually.

This however really goes against everything i’ve read, and I know that Thibs is a respectable person in this industry.

What do you guys think? Should I cut to get down to 10% BF? Or should I carry on clean bulking?

My stats are:
5’7", 136lbs, 13-16% BF

thanks in advance [/quote]

I am guessing he might have been equally turned around on how to make gains at all.

42

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Then don’t call it “dieting down”. Without pictures, no one knows what you are talking about. Comparing yourself to a “smoother” CT is a pretty big comparison. That’s like someone weighing 195lbs saying he looks like a slightly smaller Ronnie Coleman.

If you want more specific help, post pics. If not, then at least understand that you put on a SHIT LOAD of body weight very quickly and, unless you really have the genetics for it or were severely underweight to start with, I wouldn’t exactly recommend most people try putting on 50lbs in only 4 months.

You train according to how your body responds…so if you are putting on that much body fat, you make small adjustments so that you don’t need to stop every 4 months to repair the damage you did.

But hey, hopefully you learned from this and learning from mistakes is the goal in the first damn place.

Basically, add more cardio and clean up your diet for a couple of months. I would not attempt some drastic drop in body weight but I would definitely work on your aerobic capacity for the next two months. You base how much overall weight you need to lose on what you see in the mirror. [/quote]

“Yeah I’m a compact Ronnie Coleman.” LMAO! Senor X is right again. When I bulk I try to take notice of the moment I start getting fat and begin to modify my diet if my enviornment allows. One should always try to go by the mirror and make changes accordingly.

43

So whats the big deal here? How many people do you see at the gym day in and day out that hasn’t made any changes? So it’s a wonder that he couldn’t possibly be one of them? Ok so finally maybe he gets it that when people say you need to eat more that you really need to eat more, he just did that x2. I mean he posted one of his lifts with how much he increased so you know he did something besides eat. You guys should be asking what he was doing in the gym as well as what kinda increases he made (with pics)or whatever you need to give him some advice.

There is so much stuff on this site, articles and all, people have to wade through and then we get threads on,“Why some people don’t get it” shit and you all act surprised when someone messes up.

At least the dude tried to do something different, you think he’s going to post a pic now after reading this thread? So he came here for help and where is he now? At least he’s not 145 looking to cut. Try giving someone some useful advice and maybe 1 in 10 will listen and accomplish something.

44

[quote]Rapt wrote:
So whats the big deal here? How many people do you see at the gym day in and day out that hasn’t made any changes? So it’s a wonder that he couldn’t possibly be one of them? Ok so finally maybe he gets it that when people say you need to eat more that you really need to eat more, he just did that x2. I mean he posted one of his lifts with how much he increased so you know he did something besides eat. You guys should be asking what he was doing in the gym as well as what kinda increases he made (with pics)or whatever you need to give him some advice.

There is so much stuff on this site, articles and all, people have to wade through and then we get threads on,“Why some people don’t get it” shit and you all act surprised when someone messes up.

At least the dude tried to do something different, you think he’s going to post a pic now after reading this thread? So he came here for help and where is he now? At least he’s not 145 looking to cut. Try giving someone some useful advice and maybe 1 in 10 will listen and accomplish something.[/quote]

Is the bouncing ball moving too fast to follow?

Questioning what happened for three years is exactly what we should be doing if the goal is to find out what happened 14 weeks ago. This kid has been on this site for a long time and has over 1,000 posts so how is this such a hard question and why are people like you missing the point?

How HARD someone trains has damn near everything to do with whether they make good progress or shitty progress. We are trying to find that out.

45

Well to be honest I probably went overboard on this one, reading to many other threads where people are getting tore down without any useful advice. In general though it applies.

He did offer to pm his logs he just didn’t see that it would be useful. I think thats fair, right he messed around for 3 years and went no where. I’d think that it’s the ones where he actually made some changes that would matter.

46

The problem is not the article though.
Its just that people avoid reading between the lines and look for quick and easy “take aways”…so instead of reading all the details in an obviously well written and well-intentioned article, knuckleheads just scan it for a sentence that looks like a blanket recommendation of sorts and thats all they take away lol. They assume that this is an exact science and that every line/statement by anyone with some clout needs to be treated as absolute.

Obviously CT would not ask a 130 pound dude to lose weight if he asked him directly.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
bugeishaAD wrote:
Guys, 2 and a half years ago. Just for a frame of reference.

Damn. That was right after CT’s “10%” article that made every skinny newb think they needed to diet.

This thread could be a winner.[/quote]

47

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Questioning what happened for three years is exactly what we should be doing if the goal is to find out what happened 14 weeks ago. This kid has been on this site for a long time and has over 1,000 posts so how is this such a hard question and why are people like you missing the point?

How HARD someone trains has damn near everything to do with whether they make good progress or shitty progress. We are trying to find that out.[/quote]

I have shitty progress because I did NOT train hard and like the OP did “bulking” without the “lifting” heavy progressive shit. To the OP, don’t feel too bad, I pretended to work out for 11 years and have nothing to show for it, you only wasted 3 years (plus you are still young).

48

How many people would do better to read something like Prof. X’s thread and do that workout, eat and just ignore all articles.
I was going to add starting strength but it would probably change this thread into another tbt sucks.

49

those who aren’t used to KG

60kg = 132lbs
100kg = 220lbs

you added ~70lbs to your 5RM bench in 14 weeks?

pics really would be useful here

50

[quote]Rapt wrote:
How many people would do better to read something like Prof. X’s thread and do that workout, eat and just ignore all articles.[/quote]

in-deed

51

Its like watching a big dog eat a rabbit in slow motion… only it seems necessary to explain what is happening to the rabbit, step by gruesome step.

52

[quote]bugeishaAD wrote:
Guys, 2 and a half years ago. Just for a frame of reference.

I had no idea who he was until this post, but the OP trains in the same gym as me. Whilst he has probably gained more fat than he should (I know I’ve done the same, and LEARNED FROM IT), he has certainly made good progress recently. What happened 14 weeks ago to get him motivated I do not know - I’ve only seen him a handful of times.

OP - Whilst it is true that the 3 years prior may have been a waste, you have definitely achieved a lot in the last few weeks. What is important now is that you do not go on a drastic cut, or any sort of cut in fact.

Clean up your diet a little, perhaps cut down rest periods and add some cardio - small changes add up, and they add up surprisingly quickly.

You work at the gym correct? If so, and if you are able, cut the length of your training sessions in half, and have twice as many sessions per week. Simply spreading out your trainig like this will do a lot for you in terms of recomp.

You won’t be huge in 6 months, but if you do the above you’ll end up looking reasonable and still be able to make progress. The lesson to learn here is don’t go overboard, because you’ll only waste time trying to correct your excess later on. That doesn’t mean you should eat like a little girl, just don’t eat like a big fat guy either.

PS If I’m about, I’ll give you a spot on the bench.

53

[quote]Colonel Matrix wrote:
I still don’t get why pics haven’t been posted yet. Before/After? Do you have any workout logs? [/quote]

People would be much more willing to post their pics if countless faceless/anonymous internet fucks wouldn’t go out of their way to berate them.

I’m not saying you’re one of these people - I’m just saying this is the type of place that attracts them.

For the record I’m not saying this place should become a massive circle jerk, but there is a difference between ‘constructive criticism’ and ‘plain criticism’ that many here are incapable of differentiating.

54

[quote]Dave_ wrote:
bugeishaAD wrote:
Guys, 2 and a half years ago. Just for a frame of reference.

I had no idea who he was until this post, but the OP trains in the same gym as me. Whilst he has probably gained more fat than he should (I know I’ve done the same, and LEARNED FROM IT), he has certainly made good progress recently. What happened 14 weeks ago to get him motivated I do not know - I’ve only seen him a handful of times.

OP - Whilst it is true that the 3 years prior may have been a waste, you have definitely achieved a lot in the last few weeks. What is important now is that you do not go on a drastic cut, or any sort of cut in fact.

Clean up your diet a little, perhaps cut down rest periods and add some cardio - small changes add up, and they add up surprisingly quickly.

You work at the gym correct? If so, and if you are able, cut the length of your training sessions in half, and have twice as many sessions per week. Simply spreading out your trainig like this will do a lot for you in terms of recomp.

You won’t be huge in 6 months, but if you do the above you’ll end up looking reasonable and still be able to make progress. The lesson to learn here is don’t go overboard, because you’ll only waste time trying to correct your excess later on. That doesn’t mean you should eat like a little girl, just don’t eat like a big fat guy either.

PS If I’m about, I’ll give you a spot on the bench.

[/quote]

I wish you would have stepped in earlier. If he has made great progress like that, then he deserves respect for it. It would have helped if he answered some of the questions though.

If there are big guys at this gym like you, then he shouldn’t have a problem at all.

55

[quote]Dave_ wrote:

You won’t be huge in 6 months, but if you do the above you’ll end up looking reasonable and still be able to make progress. The lesson to learn here is don’t go overboard, because you’ll only waste time trying to correct your excess later on. That doesn’t mean you should eat like a little girl, just don’t eat like a big fat guy either.

[/quote]

On this, we all have to go “overboard” especially those with faster metabolisms if the goal is taking this to a higher level than average. There are many meals or protein shakes that you will be forcing down if you ever plan on finding a large t-shirt too tight to wear. It just means that you should monitor progress so that if things start moving into “excess territory” you don’t let it go until you need a bungee cord to measure your waist.

The reality is though, most of the really big guys you see did bulk up before and many more carried more body fat at one time than they may be willing to let on. I personally don’t think that is a coincidence.

56

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Dave_ wrote:

You won’t be huge in 6 months, but if you do the above you’ll end up looking reasonable and still be able to make progress. The lesson to learn here is don’t go overboard, because you’ll only waste time trying to correct your excess later on. That doesn’t mean you should eat like a little girl, just don’t eat like a big fat guy either.

On this, we all have to go “overboard” especially those with faster metabolisms if the goal is taking this to a higher level than average. There are many meals or protein shakes that you will be forcing down if you ever plan on finding a large t-shirt too tight to wear. It just means that you should monitor progress so that if things start moving into “excess territory” you don’t let it go until you need a bungee cord to measure your waist.

The reality is though, most of the really big guys you see did bulk up before and many more carried more body fat at one time than they may be willing to let on. I personally don’t think that is a coincidence.[/quote]

All true, I know I have. In terms of overboard, I wasn’t very clear. What I mean is that he shouldn’t go overboard for the training HE is doing. Sounds obvious but most of us have ignored this at some stage.

OP: 7000kcals is overboard if you only need 5000kcals to live and grow (for instance). I don’t mean that you should calculate your BMR etc etc because your expendature and needs for a calorific excess will change based on a whole load of crap you cannot control. Find a general amount you need to make progress and try to roughly average out at this level. Keep a food log for a couple of days, perhaps a week just to get a general feel for how much actual food you need to be eating. Once this has been done, it’s very easy to guesstimate how much you are eating.

In comparison with the general public and casual gymgoers, we should all be striving to go “overboard”, relatively speaking.

He’s in good company at our gym though. There’s a particularly huge guy who’s currently about 290lbs, 6’ 1-2" and in reasonably lean condition. Every time he turns up at the gym I feel like a 5 year old kid.

57

[quote]Dave_ wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Dave_ wrote:

Keep a food log for a couple of days, perhaps a week just to get a general feel for how much actual food you need to be eating. Once this has been done, it’s very easy to guesstimate how much you are eating.

[/quote]

I second this advice.

58

Wow this thread is awesome. Proof that the professor knows a thing or two.

59

[quote]taleb wrote:
those who aren’t used to KG

60kg = 132lbs
100kg = 220lbs

you added ~70lbs to your 5RM bench in 14 weeks?

pics really would be useful here[/quote]

Yes I did.

It’s funny how people just completely skipped over that and assume I turned into a fat blob.

I am not that fat AT ALL, i just have some slight love handles. I just want to recompose my body slightly before gaining more weight.

And it DOES NOT MATTER why I was 145lbs after 3 years, I know how to train now. And that is how my lifts have increased so much.

60

[quote]Dave_ wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Dave_ wrote:

You won’t be huge in 6 months, but if you do the above you’ll end up looking reasonable and still be able to make progress. The lesson to learn here is don’t go overboard, because you’ll only waste time trying to correct your excess later on. That doesn’t mean you should eat like a little girl, just don’t eat like a big fat guy either.

On this, we all have to go “overboard” especially those with faster metabolisms if the goal is taking this to a higher level than average. There are many meals or protein shakes that you will be forcing down if you ever plan on finding a large t-shirt too tight to wear. It just means that you should monitor progress so that if things start moving into “excess territory” you don’t let it go until you need a bungee cord to measure your waist.

The reality is though, most of the really big guys you see did bulk up before and many more carried more body fat at one time than they may be willing to let on. I personally don’t think that is a coincidence.

All true, I know I have. In terms of overboard, I wasn’t very clear. What I mean is that he shouldn’t go overboard for the training HE is doing. Sounds obvious but most of us have ignored this at some stage.

OP: 7000kcals is overboard if you only need 5000kcals to live and grow (for instance). I don’t mean that you should calculate your BMR etc etc because your expendature and needs for a calorific excess will change based on a whole load of crap you cannot control. Find a general amount you need to make progress and try to roughly average out at this level. Keep a food log for a couple of days, perhaps a week just to get a general feel for how much actual food you need to be eating. Once this has been done, it’s very easy to guesstimate how much you are eating.

In comparison with the general public and casual gymgoers, we should all be striving to go “overboard”, relatively speaking.

He’s in good company at our gym though. There’s a particularly huge guy who’s currently about 290lbs, 6’ 1-2" and in reasonably lean condition. Every time he turns up at the gym I feel like a 5 year old kid.

[/quote]

Dave, thanks for your input. I think I have seen you once or twice though I’m not sure.

I don’t work at the gym anymore, I couldn’t get on the books/pay was a bit crap. But you may of seen me putting away the weights a couple of times.

Anyways, I’m just going to add in cardio a couple times a week now.

Heres my current food intake:

Breakfast: 6eggs & bowl of oatmeal + banana Or 2 scoops isopure mass & bowl of oatmeal + banana

Snack: 2 scoops isopure mass

Lunch: 12oz meat, sweet potato, veg

Snack: 2 scoops isopure mass

dinner: 12oz meat, sweet potato, veg

before bed: 2 scoops isopure mass