Phil Heath-225 Lbs. For 46 Reps

Training Powerlifting
61

[quote]human743 wrote:
X, from reading your posts, it seems you were saying that it was harder doing it without lockout. Do you think he was deliberately shortchanging his rep total by doing it the harder way so that he could get his swoll on in the middle of a rep contest?[/quote]

Why are you overthinking this? If someone grabbed me and asked me to do a bench press contest at the last moment, I would lift like I always lift. Period. I have no doubt that he did the same. Why would someone change how they lift just because it is a “bench press contest”? Like has been said SEVERAL FREAKING TIMES, none of these guys even knew they would be doing this before they got there. It was not official competition. Get over it.

62

[quote]RickJames wrote:
Okay, this is not rocket surgery. The reason why people are complaining is that to express a strength feat, there has to be an objective measure of what is occurring. This is why these “reps” can’t be compared to anybody else’s “reps”, as they are performed to different standards. This should be intuitively obvious to the most casual observer. Does this mean he is doing a “bad” thing by doing these reps? No, of course not. It was a show, and he was entertaining. He has entertained us as well, as we’re sitting here talking about it.

Now, as to what is “harder”, that is of course going to be different for each individual, but let me present a couple of reasons why what he did is easier for most people to achieve reps with. The first and foremost is that due to the energy systems being used for this kind of test, most people cannot do reps with weight in this range of their 1RM for longer than 40 seconds, whether they hit 20 or 50 reps. Go back and check the video…he dies just after 40 seconds into it. If you cut the amount of time needed for a rep in half by using a shorter ROM, guess what, you can get more reps in that 40 seconds.

Also, has anybody in here done a rep test with a lighter weight like this? I have, and I lock out each rep (only because I train to bench under certain conditions that require locked out benches), and for me, the first things to go are my triceps. The lockout becomes the most difficult portion of a rep test for me, even though it’s the easiest mechanical position to push through. So cutting this portion out would help a lot, though possibly not all who try this.

Another issue is that he stops right at the weak point of the bench - that transition from chest to more shoulders and triceps. I would bet this guy’s supramaximal attempts would stop right about where he’s stopping these reps. Not going through the weakest part of the bench is saving him a lot of energy. I buy that there could be more fatigue on the pecs this way, but personally, that wouldn’t be a problem for me, though perhaps my pecs are better than most people’s.

That all being said, non-complete reps (whether they are partials or just not locked out) are an effective mean of training for both powerlifting and bodybuilding if used properly. However, there is no real objective way to compare partial rep performances among individuals. [/quote]

best post of the thread.

63

[quote]Professor X wrote:
human743 wrote:
X, from reading your posts, it seems you were saying that it was harder doing it without lockout. Do you think he was deliberately shortchanging his rep total by doing it the harder way so that he could get his swoll on in the middle of a rep contest?

Why are you overthinking this? If someone grabbed me and asked me to do a bench press contest at the last moment, I would lift like I always lift. Period. I have no doubt that he did the same. Why would someone change how they lift just because it is a “bench press contest”? Like has been said SEVERAL FREAKING TIMES, none of these guys even knew they would be doing this before they got there. It was not official competition. Get over it.[/quote]

Who is overthinking it? The point is that clearly the organizers had no set defininition of what constituted a rep, thereby negating any possible comparison of one competitors reps to the reps of another competitor. Yeah, it’s been said several times that nobody knew they were doing it - how in the world is that relevant?

If I were training to run the 100m, and I got to a track meet and my coach asked me to run the 200m as well, I can’t start halfway down the course in front of all the competitors. And it wasn’t official? Who cares, there was no sanctioning body, that’s irrelevant. If you’re going to do it, do it right. Otherwise, don’t do it.

64

i read arnold could do 60 reps with that weight and 25 with 300lbs

65

[quote]KBCThird wrote:
Professor X wrote:
human743 wrote:
X, from reading your posts, it seems you were saying that it was harder doing it without lockout. Do you think he was deliberately shortchanging his rep total by doing it the harder way so that he could get his swoll on in the middle of a rep contest?

Why are you overthinking this? If someone grabbed me and asked me to do a bench press contest at the last moment, I would lift like I always lift. Period. I have no doubt that he did the same. Why would someone change how they lift just because it is a “bench press contest”? Like has been said SEVERAL FREAKING TIMES, none of these guys even knew they would be doing this before they got there. It was not official competition. Get over it.

Who is overthinking it? The point is that clearly the organizers had no set defininition of what constituted a rep, thereby negating any possible comparison of one competitors reps to the reps of another competitor. Yeah, it’s been said several times that nobody knew they were doing it - how in the world is that relevant?

If I were training to run the 100m, and I got to a track meet and my coach asked me to run the 200m as well, I can’t start halfway down the course in front of all the competitors. And it wasn’t official? Who cares, there was no sanctioning body, that’s irrelevant. If you’re going to do it, do it right. Otherwise, don’t do it.[/quote]

I already told you, I think you should protest so that no one ever calls an act a “competition” related to powerlifting unless it follows the specific rules that you agree with.

You need to get over yourself. I doubt one of the guys who participated out of the four that I am aware of gave a shit about your perfect idea of a rep. I think you should track them all down and make sure they know so they dare not do it again. Have fun!

66

[quote]superscience wrote:
i read arnold could do 60 reps with that weight and 25 with 300lbs [/quote]

They don’t count unless they were judged by a powerlifting authority. They can allow bench shirts that allow the lifter an extra 200lbs on a lift, but God Forbid a bodybuilder not lock out. This is fucking hilarious.

67

[quote]Professor X wrote:
human743 wrote:
X, from reading your posts, it seems you were saying that it was harder doing it without lockout. Do you think he was deliberately shortchanging his rep total by doing it the harder way so that he could get his swoll on in the middle of a rep contest?

Why are you overthinking this? If someone grabbed me and asked me to do a bench press contest at the last moment, I would lift like I always lift. Period. I have no doubt that he did the same. Why would someone change how they lift just because it is a “bench press contest”? Like has been said SEVERAL FREAKING TIMES, none of these guys even knew they would be doing this before they got there. It was not official competition. Get over it.[/quote]

Once you agree to participate in the contest you now know what you are going to be doing. You are going to try to get the most that you can or you wouldn’t be participating(unless you are Nassar who I would believe was doing what he normally does, judging from your description). I am just having trouble believing that most guys wouldn’t do what they could to show a few extra reps, not less reps. Maybe you would be different. If I was invited to an impromptu rep contest, I would probably do some rough touch and go reps(bounce?) to get a few more reps but I would try to get a little closer to lockout than what I saw.

68

[quote]KBCThird wrote:
RickJames wrote:
Okay, this is not rocket surgery. The reason why people are complaining is that to express a strength feat, there has to be an objective measure of what is occurring. This is why these “reps” can’t be compared to anybody else’s “reps”, as they are performed to different standards. This should be intuitively obvious to the most casual observer. Does this mean he is doing a “bad” thing by doing these reps? No, of course not. It was a show, and he was entertaining. He has entertained us as well, as we’re sitting here talking about it.

Now, as to what is “harder”, that is of course going to be different for each individual, but let me present a couple of reasons why what he did is easier for most people to achieve reps with. The first and foremost is that due to the energy systems being used for this kind of test, most people cannot do reps with weight in this range of their 1RM for longer than 40 seconds, whether they hit 20 or 50 reps. Go back and check the video…he dies just after 40 seconds into it. If you cut the amount of time needed for a rep in half by using a shorter ROM, guess what, you can get more reps in that 40 seconds.

Also, has anybody in here done a rep test with a lighter weight like this? I have, and I lock out each rep (only because I train to bench under certain conditions that require locked out benches), and for me, the first things to go are my triceps. The lockout becomes the most difficult portion of a rep test for me, even though it’s the easiest mechanical position to push through. So cutting this portion out would help a lot, though possibly not all who try this.

Another issue is that he stops right at the weak point of the bench - that transition from chest to more shoulders and triceps. I would bet this guy’s supramaximal attempts would stop right about where he’s stopping these reps. Not going through the weakest part of the bench is saving him a lot of energy. I buy that there could be more fatigue on the pecs this way, but personally, that wouldn’t be a problem for me, though perhaps my pecs are better than most people’s.

That all being said, non-complete reps (whether they are partials or just not locked out) are an effective mean of training for both powerlifting and bodybuilding if used properly. However, there is no real objective way to compare partial rep performances among individuals.

best post of the thread.[/quote]

I agree. My max bench would go up about 30 lbs. if I only had to get it to where he was stopping. That’s about where I stall at or a little lower.

69

[quote]human743 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
human743 wrote:
X, from reading your posts, it seems you were saying that it was harder doing it without lockout. Do you think he was deliberately shortchanging his rep total by doing it the harder way so that he could get his swoll on in the middle of a rep contest?

Why are you overthinking this? If someone grabbed me and asked me to do a bench press contest at the last moment, I would lift like I always lift. Period. I have no doubt that he did the same. Why would someone change how they lift just because it is a “bench press contest”? Like has been said SEVERAL FREAKING TIMES, none of these guys even knew they would be doing this before they got there. It was not official competition. Get over it.

Once you agree to participate in the contest you now know what you are going to be doing. You are going to try to get the most that you can or you wouldn’t be participating(unless you are Nassar who I would believe was doing what he normally does, judging from your description). I am just having trouble believing that most guys wouldn’t do what they could to show a few extra reps, not less reps. Maybe you would be different. If I was invited to an impromptu rep contest, I would probably do some rough touch and go reps(bounce?) to get a few more reps but I would try to get a little closer to lockout than what I saw.
[/quote]

Please. I mentioned Nasser because that alone disproves what you just wrote. Nasser did them like he trains…super slow. I wouldn’t even put myself at risk of injury by changing up my personal style of bench pressing at the last moment. It would be foolish for anyone to jump on a benchpress and suddenly do them differently than they trained for. Even with 225lbs, you could experience an injury if you weren’t familar with the movement.

70

[quote]KBCThird wrote:
Professor X wrote:
human743 wrote:
X, from reading your posts, it seems you were saying that it was harder doing it without lockout. Do you think he was deliberately shortchanging his rep total by doing it the harder way so that he could get his swoll on in the middle of a rep contest?

Why are you overthinking this? If someone grabbed me and asked me to do a bench press contest at the last moment, I would lift like I always lift. Period. I have no doubt that he did the same. Why would someone change how they lift just because it is a “bench press contest”? Like has been said SEVERAL FREAKING TIMES, none of these guys even knew they would be doing this before they got there. It was not official competition. Get over it.

Who is overthinking it? The point is that clearly the organizers had no set defininition of what constituted a rep, thereby negating any possible comparison of one competitors reps to the reps of another competitor. Yeah, it’s been said several times that nobody knew they were doing it - how in the world is that relevant?

If I were training to run the 100m, and I got to a track meet and my coach asked me to run the 200m as well, I can’t start halfway down the course in front of all the competitors. And it wasn’t official? Who cares, there was no sanctioning body, that’s irrelevant. If you’re going to do it, do it right. Otherwise, don’t do it.[/quote]

Maybe X is saying that if he were challenged to a 100m dash, he would just jog because that is the way he normally runs.

No offense X, just jerking your chain a little.

71

[quote]Professor X wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
Professor X wrote:
human743 wrote:
X, from reading your posts, it seems you were saying that it was harder doing it without lockout. Do you think he was deliberately shortchanging his rep total by doing it the harder way so that he could get his swoll on in the middle of a rep contest?

Why are you overthinking this? If someone grabbed me and asked me to do a bench press contest at the last moment, I would lift like I always lift. Period. I have no doubt that he did the same. Why would someone change how they lift just because it is a “bench press contest”? Like has been said SEVERAL FREAKING TIMES, none of these guys even knew they would be doing this before they got there. It was not official competition. Get over it.

Who is overthinking it? The point is that clearly the organizers had no set defininition of what constituted a rep, thereby negating any possible comparison of one competitors reps to the reps of another competitor. Yeah, it’s been said several times that nobody knew they were doing it - how in the world is that relevant?

If I were training to run the 100m, and I got to a track meet and my coach asked me to run the 200m as well, I can’t start halfway down the course in front of all the competitors. And it wasn’t official? Who cares, there was no sanctioning body, that’s irrelevant. If you’re going to do it, do it right. Otherwise, don’t do it.

I already told you, I think you should protest so that no one ever calls an act a “competition” related to powerlifting unless it follows the specific rules that you agree with.

You need to get over yourself. I doubt one of the guys who participated out of the four that I am aware of gave a shit about your perfect idea of a rep. I think you should track them all down and make sure they know so they dare not do it again. Have fun!
[/quote]

It has nothing to do with what I think a perfect rep is, nor what you think one is. It’s an agreed upon STANDARD. And i don’t care what their opinions of my thoughts are, somebody posted something that I disagreed with, and I will continue to defend my position. If you don’t like it, don’t participate in an open forum.

72

[quote]Professor X wrote:
superscience wrote:
i read arnold could do 60 reps with that weight and 25 with 300lbs

They don’t count unless they were judged by a powerlifting authority. They can allow bench shirts that allow the lifter an extra 200lbs on a lift, but God Forbid a bodybuilder not lock out. This is fucking hilarious.[/quote]

Why are we talkin bout powerlifting again?

73

[quote]Viking69 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
superscience wrote:
i read arnold could do 60 reps with that weight and 25 with 300lbs

They don’t count unless they were judged by a powerlifting authority. They can allow bench shirts that allow the lifter an extra 200lbs on a lift, but God Forbid a bodybuilder not lock out. This is fucking hilarious.

Why are we talkin bout powerlifting again?
[/quote]

Good question.

74

the point is, somebody posted a guy at a “bench press rep comp” adn said “looky here, incredible!!!111!” A FEW GUYS pointed out that they were not so impressed because of the nature of the reps. then a bunch of guys chimed saying “how dare you!!! shut up and be impressed, those were tough reps, you guys are not a SWOLE as he is, stfu!”

hahaha it really is funny.

75

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Please. I mentioned Nasser because that alone disproves what you just wrote. Nasser did them like he trains…super slow. I wouldn’t even put myself at risk of injury by changing up my personal style of bench pressing at the last moment. It would be foolish for anyone to jump on a benchpress and suddenly do them differently than they trained for. Even with 225lbs, you could experience an injury if you weren’t familar with the movement.[/quote]

That’s why I mentioned him too. I believe that he thinks like you do and just did what he normally does which is great, no injuries. But not everyone has the same philosophy (foolish though it may be)and I believe that includes Phil Heath, who it seems was trying to get more reps than usual, unless you think he does 46 rep warmup sets.
But like another poster said, it was more an exhibition than a contest per se. So I guess it is irrelevant.

76

oh, ok, so it was not a bench press contest. my bad, the title of “bench press contest” fooled me. but hey, i am not a MD. so i guess you are saying it was a chest developement contest? so how do you judge that. the guys get under the weight do a bunch of reps however, and jump up and rate how “SWOOOOOLE” their pecs feel? the one who claims the biggest pump on his chest is the winner? haha! so silly.

77

this for me is not a PL verses BB debate. imho, those reps were more legit than a max bench in a super jacked up bench shirt, so that dog wont hunt with me.

78

Professor X, I don’t see the problem. No one’s saying there is anything wrong with not locking out your reps or with using whatever form this man damn well pleases at an exhibition. The only point is that this display of strength cannot be compared to how many of us perform our bench presses. It’s not a right or wrong thing; it’s just a difference of definitions. No one has said that this guy is weak or stupid that I know of.

79

good post.

80

You guys that are defending the legitimacy of this guy’s reps are missing the boat. People here are knocking him because if you aren’t locking it out, how the hell do you quantify what’s a rep and what isn’t?