Paul Chek Internship

I have not done done a Poliquin internship but I worked with people who did. And just one thing I thought was strange is how Poliquin tests for muscle imbalances. CHEKS stuff you can find in any manual for neurological assessment.(Not all but most) I have a few manuals myself and its all in there. Poliquin has made his own assessment techniques based on his experience with athletes. Now mind you this is coming to me second hand so I really don?t know for sure. But they where really strange??? Like standing on a sit fit and stuff?

I have never seen tests like this. Even the guys that taught it to me didn?t really seem to understand it. Any one know more about this. Also I have one of Poloquins older German body comp training manuals and a lot of sections …mainly the one on core training is straight from Paul Chek. The drawings in the manual are the same as Paul Cheks logo. Just something interesting to share. I do know the Poliquin internships costs huge amounts of money!! Way more than chek from what I was told

Hello to All who have chimed in on the CHEK Intern issue:

I was recently exposed to the forum posts on this particular topic and thought I might throw in my $.02.

I have followed the work of Paul Chek, Charles Poliquin, Ian King, Charles Staley, and all others who have anything to teach in the broad area of strength and conditioning for greater than 5 years. As a soon to be CHEK LEVEL II Practitioner, I have personally found the information that I have learned through Paul’s Program to be priceless. I have read all 40 something posts in this thread and everyone has brought forth valid points. Please let me state the following:

All those who enroll in Paul’s Internship Program do so with some other certification of related degree (CSCS, DC, Physio, PT, etc). I believe the ultimate reason for enrolling in an advanced certification is to further your skills as a Practitioner/Conditioning Specialist/Whatever. I have read the posts of those that were disappointed with their CHEK experiences. And to them I would like to say that any given situation is what you make it. If you are a strength coach interested in only “hard core” S&C, that’s fine. But what happens when one of your athletes gets injured? I think that many of us are dealing with a wide range of clientelle, myself included. The information learned in any of Paul’s Internships is very applicable to athletes as well as non-athletes. I work with rehab clients and athletes alike and have found numerus cases where the assessment tools have been the reason why many of these clients are successful cases.

Also, in any given set of circumstances we should all seek to read, learn, absorb, disregard, and apply anything we can get our hands on. If you take a course or certification that does not live up to your standards, then at the very least that course has served to intensify the convictions that you have for that which you already know and believe to be true and right. I’m sure all of the greats would agree with me on that point.

Another point to be made is that the “H” in CHEK stands for Holistic. Paul’s Program goes WAY BEYOND functional biomechanics and applied kinesiology. The information in the CHEK Institute’s NLC Programs are on a whole other level, not really suited for the close-minded.

I have personally found it more rewarding to rehab individuals to the level they were at previous to injury and then take them beyond that point to a level of physical preparation they never thought possible. This has been my experience. Those of you who are more hardcore would find it interesting that Poliquin’s Level III has extensive rehab protocols taught for the trunk and lower kinetic chain. All athletes need structural balance, which can be achieved any number of ways. I believe the best approach is one that can be modified to suit the given situation. Therefore, since athletes get injured it would behoove the majority of the Strength Coaches out there to be able to take a page or two from the CHEK Program in order to pre-habilitate and prevent injuries from occuring.

This field of strength and conditioning is very multi-disciplinary and requires that same kind of appraoch. In the end, I believe that we all have common goals and are ultimately on the same page.

Thanks for all of your input and time.

Sounds like verbatim from paul’s own mouth. If you have an original thought in there somewhere, let us know.
Paul is the one saying Paul is a genius. Think about that.

The first rules of being a guru is make your followers dependant on you and to blurt out your words like pre-programmed robots.

His teachings have been disected by many other far more qualified and for the most part discredited (see the old supertraining yahoo archives for some prime examples).

Now he has a holistic angle? lol

there is an interview floating around where he claims that the common occurance of MCL tears in female athletes is due to their diet? lol he is a fruit loop! oh and how the hell do you guys stand listening to his voice?

and if the moderaters let this post get through, can one of Cheks followers explain why his institute is listed on quackwatch?

Smallz, I have a couple of comments on what you said. Please understand that this is a discussion forum and not some attempt by me do make judgements on you as a person. People can sometimes take things on this forum a little too personally.
Here it goes

If you are a strength coach interested in only “hard core” S&C, that’s fine. But what happens when one of your athletes gets injured?

I refer out. As a C.S.C.S, I personally realize there is a definate line between what I do and what a licensed PT or MD would do. I realize the amount of training and schooling that those professionals need to go through to have the knowledge base to successfully treat there clients. It is not a knowledge base, that I have found, can be taught in a 10 day seminar. Asessments such as gilletes test and sensory dermatones are best done by licensed and trained PT’s and doctors, and not by chek practioners. If you want to do those kind of asessments, go to medical or pt school, not the chek institute.

Also, in any given set of circumstances we should all seek to read, learn, absorb, disregard, and apply anything we can get our hands on. If you take a course or certification that does not live up to your standards, then at the very least that course has served to intensify the convictions that you have for that which you already know and believe to be true and right.

I couldn’t agree with you more, well said. However, I will say that it is much easier for me to be “Zen Like” in my thinking if the experience didn’t cost so much. If I get a bad book that cost $50, or go to a bad seminar that cost $200, then no big deal, I can afford to get all warm and glowy inside about the situation being a learning experience. But after $3000 tuition, $1000 in books and reading materials, $1500 in hotel and travel costs, $500 in meals, and another $500 in equipment, I have 6500 more reasons to be pissed off about the experience than I do to be enlightened by it.

Another point to be made is that the “H” in CHEK stands for Holistic. Paul’s Program goes WAY BEYOND functional biomechanics and applied kinesiology. The information in the CHEK Institute’s NLC Programs are on a whole other level, not really suited for the close-minded.

I have a point of disagreement here. When I signed up for the intern, the H stood for High Performance, not holistic. Maybe Chek has changed this, I don’t know, but as you can see this is one of the reasons why I jumped in thinking that I was going to be able to create Defranco like athletes with this stuff. As far as the NLC, I agree that it is important to have an open mind, but not a mind that is so gaping that your brains fall out. When I was at the you are what you eat seminar by paul he said and did some pretty outlandish things. I am not talking about quigong (sp) and things like that since they have some basis in science, but when he (chek) pulled out that string with the weight on the end of it, put it over the food and started doing that clockwise, counterclockwise, aura stuff with it, he looked like a snake oil salesman and a nutjob. I really feel that it is lack of formal education (which he so gets off on telling you how unimportant formal education is) that sometimes leads him to not be critical of some of the stuff that he preaches. whenever chek says something I always cross reference it to Dr. Berardi, to find out if the stuff is legit. When Dr. Berardi agrees that animal’s feed effects the fatty acid profiles of the meat we eat, then I pay attention. Until berardi starts talking about the evils of tupperware and the aura in food, I will stay close minded and pass.

This field of strength and conditioning is very multi-disciplinary and requires that same kind of appraoch. In the end, I believe that we all have common goals and are ultimately on the same page.

well said!

I agree with quack watch being a good site to chek out. But Chiros are listed there as well. Plus I could come up with hundreds of sites that talk about the miss deeds of medical doctors as well as CSCS. T-nation will probably be listed undertheir in the near fututre. :slight_smile:

Flat out I learned some good back rehab stuff from the internship. Thats what I took from it and that is what I use. And I am a better person with it then without. Plus the whole purpose of the examinations is to refer out!! I know alot of CSCS who will take on people with neuroligial problems and because they dont know how to asess they will blame the problem on deconditioning! That is the whole point of the assesments is so you can know what is beyond your capabilities. There is nothing wrong with a assesing anyone. Actualy taking on the task of training them is diffrent which CHEK does not tell you to do if it is over your capabilties. This is always made very clear. I was working with a few CSCS and fellow t men who had a guy you had some real problems with his shoulder. After training him and making it worse it was turned out he needs surgery. Not to mention I’ve known CSCS to give people poterior disk herneations because they couldnt wate to try out that new west side barbell back squat variation. Maybe with some proper assesment capabilties these problems could of been avoided.

just a though

I was working with a few CSCS and fellow T- men who had a guy you had some real problems with his shoulder. After training him and making it worse it was turned out he needs surgery. Not to mention I’ve known CSCS to give people poterior disk herneations because they couldnt wate to try out that new west side barbell back squat variation. Maybe with some proper assesment capabilties these problems could of been avoided.

As a young trainer I was guilty of many of the same behaviors, but experience and common sense developed in me over the next several thousand sessions I performed, to the point where I would know right away whether or not I could help somebody or not.

spineflow, I think common sense would be a capability required by these guys, not assesments. Either these clients were in very bad shape, or the technique on the lifts was not very good. I have performed dozens of the westside variations with my advanced clients with not one injury. I think the problem is that these guys are doing things like board and floor presses with people who only learned how to bench 6 weeks ago. It is a misuse of the method but not the method itself that is to blame.

as far as quack watch is concerned, be very careful with that website. a year or so back, it was found that it had several key sponsors who paid for it and kept it running, that were backed by large corporations, particularly those in the meatpacking and food industries (ala conagra). Based on what chek preaches, it is not much of a surprise that these guys would have him listed on there. If Dr. Berardi’s info on the effect of feed on animals fatty acid profile gets the recognition that it deserves, I wouldn’t be surprised to see his name on there next. anything that gets in the way of profits for those corporations whether it is legit or real quack science, is considered the enemy by those guys. they will do anything and everything to discredit anybody who gets in their way.

Thanks to all for your responses to my recent post. I would like to reply to several of you.

First, digriz: I assure you my thoughts are original and I never personally remember ever hearing Paul himself claim to be a “genious.” I do not need to defend Paul as a person as he is a grown ass man who’s results and work speak for themselves.

Second, Davidian: “Now he has a holistic angle, lol.” Actually Paul has always had a holistic angle as he became a Liscenced HHP in the state of CA in 1988, and if you ask him his true title I believe he would say that he is ultimately a Holistic Health Practitioner. Something that he said recently in an interview with Joseph Mercola, DO (someone I belive T-Nation has interview in the past). Also, if there is one thing that he teaches his interns it is that they must be independent or lateral thinkers. The final decisions regarding our program designs are up to us, no one else. And finally, there have been many very intelligent individuals on “quackwatch.” I am not suprised by that in the least.

Lastly, MikeShank: I assure you that I do not take any of the responses personally. I am not after the approval of any human being. I enjoy all of the posts and they add to the entertainment value of my day. The “H” being Holistic is relatively new and was likely a difficult decision to make. As the posts on this forum indicate, not many repsond openly to this approach. I do understand how the previous acronym may have been a bit misleading.

I also remember someone saying that anything that Paul says is run by John Berardi. I think that is great. I am a huge follower of Dr. JB, as I suspect are all who are members of this site. Paul Chek thinks very highly of JB (this I know through personal communication with Paul). When it comes to recovery enhancement and performance nutrition I don’t think there is anyone better than JB. However, the two approaches (from both Paul and JB) can be integrated to bring about staggering results. I have seen this in my own personal clinical experience. An elite athlete may seemingly have no need to pay attention to the potential dangers of microwaved foods, etc., but someone with a serious health condition and compromised immune function would. Yes, I know that a doctor should take care of these things, but I (and I presume many other CHEK Practitioners)get many people as clients who come from MD’s, PT’s, etc. and are unhappy with their results. They come for that something else that no one to that point in their trials has offered them. That is where we do what we can utilizing what we are taught - from anyone.

I do not feel the CHEK Prgram produces pre-programmed robots. We are all free to agree and disagree as we see fit. I believe that all who have responded or posted on this issue are very intelligent and capable of making their own decisions. I was merely trying to convey my own personal experience with the CHEK Program. For me, it was the best decision I ever made!!

I thank all of you for your time and responses once again.

Best of Health to ALL!!

Hello Everyone
I have done seminars with Paul Chek, Dave Tate and Jim Wendler, and the late Mel Siff as well as others and what really hit home to me was that Paul seemed to delight in making something relatively simple sound complicated where as the others mentioned seemed to simplify the complex.

When I saw Mel in Sept 2000 I had been totally taken in by Cheks methods. When I asked him about balance training for athletes he said make the athletes stronger, faster, or more powerful and the athlete will make use of it on the field of play. I’ve rarely used a swiss ball since or a bosu board since.

I guess that most visitors to this forum know how strong Dave and Jim are, also Mel was a competative weightlifter and martial artist for many years, and although Paul looks impressive doing what he does he just doesn’t have the under the bar credence that the others have. When you figure out how to make yourself into a good performer then you can help others do the same.

Happy Christmas to all of you,
BJ

Still waiting to find out if ii was the Christian Thibaudeau that is participating in Poliquin’s certification program, let us know what you learned big fella.

Smallz,
I know who you are, and you are one huge sumamabitch.

smalz-thanks for not taking things personally, it makes discussion on these boards much easier.
I completely agree that paul does make simple things complex while making guys like tate try to make complex things simple. that is one of the things that first turned me on to the westside guys, that, and all their seminars were a couple of grand cheaper.
I have started a seperate thread under nutrition about microwaved foods, since I would like to know more about that subject matter, so if anybody has something to say about that, please post there.
smalz, maybe cause you know the guy, you see him to be humble, but to everyone I know who has ever heard him (chek) speak, they find him to be a magnanimous blowhard. If Paul does have the hopes of mainstreaming himself and spreading his information, that is something he definately will want to work on. As far as chek claiming himself to be a genious, maybe he has never said that word for word, but having heard him speak, I have a hard time believing that he doesn’t imply that rather forcefully. On the med ball or swiss ball test, he puts his name in a multiple choice question along with einstein and a couple of other geniouses. the question is something like; “who came up with the theory of blank blank” and then the choices are a. the right answer, I just can’t remember the guys name.
b. einstein.
c. paul chek
d. socarates
e. jesus
that isn’t exact to the test, but I don’t own it anymore so I will leave that up to you, but it is a pretty good example of how he sees himself. go check the test yourself and you will see what I am talking about.

with the existence of the chekies (they call themselves that on the chek forum) I also have a hard time believing that there are many other free thinkers in cheks internship outside of you smalz. I have read several posts on that board with guys quoting “the chek way is the only way”. when I did the internship, open discussion seemed a moot point. abs in or god help you, cause that is the only way. not the only way for people who are injured, but the only way for everybody. with all this talk of having to be open minded to accept cheks teachings, i find him and his people to be very closed minded themselves. it seems to only accept new ideas if they somehow reinforce the chek methods already preconcieved ideas.

[quote]MikeShank wrote:
smalz-thanks for not taking things personally, it makes discussion on these boards much easier.
I completely agree that paul does make simple things complex while making guys like tate try to make complex things simple. that is one of the things that first turned me on to the westside guys, that, and all their seminars were a couple of grand cheaper.
I have started a seperate thread under nutrition about microwaved foods, since I would like to know more about that subject matter, so if anybody has something to say about that, please post there.
smalz, maybe cause you know the guy, you see him to be humble, but to everyone I know who has ever heard him (chek) speak, they find him to be a magnanimous blowhard. If Paul does have the hopes of mainstreaming himself and spreading his information, that is something he definately will want to work on. As far as chek claiming himself to be a genious, maybe he has never said that word for word, but having heard him speak, I have a hard time believing that he doesn’t imply that rather forcefully. On the med ball or swiss ball test, he puts his name in a multiple choice question along with einstein and a couple of other geniouses. the question is something like; “who came up with the theory of blank blank” and then the choices are a. the right answer, I just can’t remember the guys name.
b. einstein.
c. paul chek
d. socarates
e. jesus
that isn’t exact to the test, but I don’t own it anymore so I will leave that up to you, but it is a pretty good example of how he sees himself. go check the test yourself and you will see what I am talking about.

with the existence of the chekies (they call themselves that on the chek forum) I also have a hard time believing that there are many other free thinkers in cheks internship outside of you smalz. I have read several posts on that board with guys quoting “the chek way is the only way”. when I did the internship, open discussion seemed a moot point. abs in or god help you, cause that is the only way. not the only way for people who are injured, but the only way for everybody. with all this talk of having to be open minded to accept cheks teachings, i find him and his people to be very closed minded themselves. it seems to only accept new ideas if they somehow reinforce the chek methods already preconcieved ideas. [/quote]

Hi Mike
I posted a question a month or so ago asking whether Chek had lost it. It was in reference to the first chapter of his new book which is shown on his website.

In it he sets the scene of an out of shape man visiting his doctor, the doctor turns out to be Albert Einstein, of course the advice that Einstein is dishing out is all pro Chek, guess it would be. I got the feeling from reading it that Chek was either presenting himself as the health and fitness industries Einstein like saviour or at the very least as a genius.

After seeing Paul a few years ago he seemed to me the type of person who could easily discredit himself and thus destroy the value of his internships with one over zealous rant that could be heard by the wrong person. This is another reason why I would be cautious about handing over several thousand ?/$ to be chek qualified.

Regards BJ

Hello BJ,

I believe what Paul was trying to depict in the opening chapter of his most recent book is not that he is a health/fitness genius (damn I never remember how to spell that word), but rather a situation where the health of the individuals of society was much less controlled by allopathic medicine and pharmaceutical companies. Now, I am not hating on allopathic medicine, nor do I think Paul is, but its management of chronic health problems is piss poor at best. For acute situations, allopathic medicine rocks (in at least some cases), but for long term management of health, etc., I feel it is terrible.

What I would encourage anyone who is even partially interested in Paul’s program to do is to attend on of his seminars and listen to him speak for a day or two, and then decide for yourself whether you believe he knows what he is talking about or not. The same goes for anyone else who teaches an advanced seminar/certification.

Also, I find it interesting that one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence was Dr. Benjamin Rush, who stated, and I’m paraphrasing here, that it would be one of mankind’s greatest mistakes to put the health of society solely in the hands of medical doctors, and he was one!! A little food for thought.

Best of Health to ALL

I just found this thread and thought I’d add my bit.

I think that for the most part, CHEK stuff is the way to go. I combine that with poliquin and all the other top coaches everyone has all mentioned.

From the little that I have learnt off CHEK I’ve applied it to clients with good results. One of CHEK’s best teachings on flexibility. I use a basci ROM test for most joints and then apply stretches to “only what is tight” prior to exercise.
It works wonders, yet I’m the only trainer who uses this approach in my gym. I helped my frined who had been seeing a chiro for mothes with his back. I showed him one stretch and his back pain is gone)providing he does the stretch about once a week).

I spoke to Chek regarding Poliquin’s bashing of CHEK methods in his more recent articles. He basically said Poliquin is a very smart guy who will be your friend when he wants something, but he’ll stab you in the back when he’s done with you. He also told me to look further into that and you’d see that Poliquin has done the same to others(I didn’t look further, but who knows).

I’m doing NLC 1 next month and I plan on doing upto level 2 CHEK in the future. I dont want to be a “Cheky” robot and I realise that it’s not all the only way.