[quote]rainjack wrote:
No one asked for Big Nose McBusybody Specter
[/quote]
This is the best line in the whole thread
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Okay. So it was a violation of the rules. I don’t think anyone is saying that it’s not. As was mentioned earlier - there are 31 other owners in this league. Do you honestly think the first step to remedying the situation is to have Congress step in?
ow about the other 31 teams getting a chance to chime in? Isn’t that what usually happens in the winter meetings, or whatever they call it in the NFL?
No one asked for Big Nose McBusybody Specter to weigh in. I am certain that the owners of the league are more than capable of policing their own short comings without the unwanted assistance of some assholes in DC.
[/quote]
I really don’t like congress butting into this stuff either, but if the league ignores this like it seems they have, what should they do.
Especially when one is a senator from Pa. and the local team lost a close one to the Patriots.
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Arlan Specter needs to have a red hot poker shoved up his ass.
I hate the Patriots, but does this shit really need Congress stepping in?
Since the NFL tried to cover it up by destroying the evidence apparently someone has to step in.
The NFL’s behavior has been shameful. Goodell claimed he was going to clean up the league and instead he destroyed the evidence that the “best” team of the decade has been cheating.
This is complete horsesh-t, how an individual sport disciplines behavior, or conducts itself is NONE OF CONGRESS’ business! We’re not talking about games being rigged for gambling purposes, nor has anyone said that anyone working FOR the nfl was helping any of this. Should Arlen Specter call a hearing because he doesnt like the NFL’s overtime rules? Nonsense. I dont care if the NFL institutes a rule that says “next year, all patriots will begin with the score 14-0, patriots” it is NONE OF CONGRESS’ BUSINESS. I certainly wouldnt watch any of the games, btu this whole business sickens me.
And I hate teh pats[/quote]
Wrong. I have already outlined why it is clearly congresses business and I cannot believe you are drawing a comparison between over time rules and cheating being covered up by the commissioners office.
[quote]tom63 wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Okay. So it was a violation of the rules. I don’t think anyone is saying that it’s not. As was mentioned earlier - there are 31 other owners in this league. Do you honestly think the first step to remedying the situation is to have Congress step in?
ow about the other 31 teams getting a chance to chime in? Isn’t that what usually happens in the winter meetings, or whatever they call it in the NFL?
No one asked for Big Nose McBusybody Specter to weigh in. I am certain that the owners of the league are more than capable of policing their own short comings without the unwanted assistance of some assholes in DC.
I really don’t like congress butting into this stuff either, but if the league ignores this like it seems they have, what should they do.
Especially when one is a senator from Pa. and the local team lost a close one to the Patriots.
[/quote]
As far as I know the reports of him cheating were just made public this season. Goodell handed down fines, and a loss of draft choice the first time around.
How is that ignoring?
People are too impatient. Big brother is not the answer to every question.
Pretty soon OSHA will weigh in about the safety of the NFL workplace and there will be no more games played in rain, sleet, or snow.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
rainjack wrote:
<<< You are normally libertarian/conservative leaning. I have to wonder why this issue has you singing like a left-wing big gov’t liberal. >>>
I gotta say Zap, you had me wondering in the Baseball/Steroids thread. I don’t get involved in too many political discussions here, but that’s how you always struck me and then there’s this sudden confidence in a humongous bloated bureaucracy to oversee sports. It’s not the job of federal government to have anything whatever to say about how the various leagues conduct themselves unless federal laws are broken.[/quote]
Federal laws were being broken in baseball and possibly in the football cheating scandal.
I don’t think any of you fully understand this. Government is heavily involved in sports to prevent cheating, game fixing etc. They have been for quite a while. Too many fixed boxing matches and even a fixed World Series has brought this about.
The hard nosed commissioner of the NFL covering the Pats cheating is a perfect example as to why the government got involved in the first place all those years ago and why they will remain involved.
Pro sports is big business and prone to corruption. Part of the job of our government is to stop corrupt business practices.
I do not want ridiculous hearings on this like the MLB hearings but I am damn glad Specter made Goodell talk. If the NFL was smart they would fix the problem with decisive action and give Congress no reason to carry out further investigation.
[quote]BigRagoo wrote:
So, watching and re-watching a taped game to determine a team’s style of play is kosher, but learning their signals along with it isn’t?? Call me crazy, but that is stupid. If you can review a game in its entirety, all that it encompasses is fair game. The Pats were the one’s that got caught first. I don’t see how it is illegal or cheating.[/quote]
The NFL thought it was important enough to give the Pats the biggest penalty ever.
The Pats thought it was necessary to do it for almost seven years.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
…
As far as I know the reports of him cheating were just made public this season. Goodell handed down fines, and a loss of draft choice the first time around.
How is that ignoring?
People are too impatient. Big brother is not the answer to every question.
Pretty soon OSHA will weigh in about the safety of the NFL workplace and there will be no more games played in rain, sleet, or snow.
[/quote]
The problem is Goodell lied. When asked about whether the cheating went back before this season he lied about it.
If he was honest about it none of this would have happened.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Federal laws were being broken in baseball and possibly in the football cheating scandal.[/quote]
What laws were possibly broken in football?
Sorry, Zap but there is no Fed involvement in Boxing, only state involvement. And the last time we have any documented case of a “fixed” WS was 19-fucking-18. You are going to have to try harder than this to scare me, or most any other rational person, into needing the fucking Fed to manage Pro Sport.
Let’s see - does the fan get his money’s worth? Yes
Do the players get paid well for their efforts? Yes
Are the the owners making a profit? Yes
Please define corrupt beyond “he cheated, call congress”.
Guess what? That’s what you’ll get having congress run shit: Pure ridiculousness.
Despite the fact that you think the game is on the verge of collapse because one team is “cheating”, I think football is just as great as it always has been. There is no fucking crisis. If Goodell was willing to slap steep fines and take away draft picks, how is it he is covering shit up?
You picked a the short end of the stick on this one.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
rainjack wrote:
…
As far as I know the reports of him cheating were just made public this season. Goodell handed down fines, and a loss of draft choice the first time around.
How is that ignoring?
People are too impatient. Big brother is not the answer to every question.
Pretty soon OSHA will weigh in about the safety of the NFL workplace and there will be no more games played in rain, sleet, or snow.
The problem is Goodell lied. When asked about whether the cheating went back before this season he lied about it.
If he was honest about it none of this would have happened.[/quote]
Then make this shit about Goodell, and stop acting as if the entire future of the sport is at risk because the fucking WHite Sox bet on the 1918 World Series.
Dude - That was 90 years ago. Hardly relevant.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
rainjack wrote:
UtahLama wrote:
This is the leverage that Specter has over the NFL.
The antitrust exemption saves the league and their teams billions.
Pull that plug and the NFL is in deep doo doo.
Does Congress really want to be the ones that kill football? Talk about political suicide.
Should the NFL kill itself to cover up the Patriots cheating?
And this is where the wheels fall off your argument. It’s not that big of a deal. At least not as big a deal as you are making out of it.
If you are so concerned with cheating, why not turn all of professional sports over to the fed? God knows there is cheating going on somewhere that could kill the respective sport.
Governemtal interference will kill sport quicker than any supposed cheating scandal. [/quote]
Whether or not the threat of removing the antitrust exemption has any merit is not the arguement. It is the reason as to why the government is involved, though, and the only thing that the government can dangle above the NFL’s head to encourage fair play.
I’ll assume your second paragraph was rhetorical.
Government has been interfering for ages. Nobody is going to argue that the fed should take over the sport, we all know that is ridiculous, but I have given you reasons as to why the gov has some interest.
[quote]tedro wrote:
Government has been interfering for ages. Nobody is going to argue that the fed should take over the sport, we all know that is ridiculous, but I have given you reasons as to why the gov has some interest.
[/quote]
Interest is a far cry from interference. That is what we are witnessing right now.
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
This deserves attention finally to at least get the full truth. [/quote]
The problem is, this is never going to happen, same with the steroid issue in baseball. As soon as other teams heard about the Pats getting busted, there were probably mini-bonfires in the parking lot of 31 other stadiums. I don’t have any articles or evidence to present, but other players and coaches have said this has been going on in the league for years. The Pats just got caught. And that little ungrateful shithead Mangini - who got to where he is because of Belichick, by the way - was just mad that he was getting trounced by a better team every year; it had nothing to do with the taping, but that’s another matter.
The point is, the full truth will never be known. I think everyone just needs to leave well enough alone and move on with it. All anyone is going to find at this point anyhow is circumstantial, word-of-mouth, “Who do we believe?”, horseshit evidence, a la baseball and the Mitchell Report. Do we really want another one of those shitstorms? I mean, honestly, has this really affected any of our lives as fans in a great way?
Somebody got caught. No one will do the taping any more. Teams will find other ways to get an edge. And on and on it will go. Like RJ said, competition breeds looking for an edge; always has, always will. Period.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Arlan Specter needs to have a red hot poker shoved up his ass.
I hate the Patriots, but does this shit really need Congress stepping in?
Since the NFL tried to cover it up by destroying the evidence apparently someone has to step in.
The NFL’s behavior has been shameful. Goodell claimed he was going to clean up the league and instead he destroyed the evidence that the “best” team of the decade has been cheating.
This is complete horsesh-t, how an individual sport disciplines behavior, or conducts itself is NONE OF CONGRESS’ business! We’re not talking about games being rigged for gambling purposes, nor has anyone said that anyone working FOR the nfl was helping any of this. Should Arlen Specter call a hearing because he doesnt like the NFL’s overtime rules? Nonsense. I dont care if the NFL institutes a rule that says “next year, all patriots will begin with the score 14-0, patriots” it is NONE OF CONGRESS’ BUSINESS. I certainly wouldnt watch any of the games, btu this whole business sickens me.
And I hate teh pats
Wrong. I have already outlined why it is clearly congresses business and I cannot believe you are drawing a comparison between over time rules and cheating being covered up by the commissioners office.
[/quote]
The interstate commerce clause is such a stretch - but then again it oftentimes is when it’s invoked.
I can see why you dont like my comparison between cheating and overtime rules, but to me theyre both the leagues business. This isnt about gambling or organized crime - it’s about an intraleague disciplinary matter.
And I would honestly like to hear how you think Joe Sixpack would react to congress pulling the anti-trust exemption if it does in fact destroy the league. Do you not think this would be political suicide.
For a league that has made so much money they are so frigging stupid not to have put radios in the defensive signal caller’s helmet as well. No hand gestures from teh side lines and this all woulda been avoided. Unless belichick found a way to descramble the signals, which i wouldnt put past him
[quote]Applesauce wrote:
Ah, good old Specter at it again. First he threatens them with the anti-trust exemption because he doesn’t like the way they do business, and now he’s conducting an “investigation” regarding spying incidents. I’m quite surprised that Goodell gave him that information rather than telling him to bugger off. I know spying on another team is against NFL rules, but I don’t think it’s a federal crime, so why Specter feels the need to poke his face in the matter is beyond me.[/quote]
[quote]rainjack wrote:
No one asked for Big Nose McBusybody Specter to weigh in. I am certain that the owners of the league are more than capable of policing their own short comings without the unwanted assistance of some assholes in DC. [/quote]
Actually, his lack of involvement would’ve been more surprising considering all those constituents in PHI and PIT.
[quote]CC wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
This deserves attention finally to at least get the full truth.
The problem is, this is never going to happen, same with the steroid issue in baseball. As soon as other teams heard about the Pats getting busted, there were probably mini-bonfires in the parking lot of 31 other stadiums. I don’t have any articles or evidence to present, but other players and coaches have said this has been going on in the league for years. The Pats just got caught. And that little ungrateful shithead Mangini - who got to where he is because of Belichick, by the way - was just mad that he was getting trounced by a better team every year; it had nothing to do with the taping, but that’s another matter.
The point is, the full truth will never be known. I think everyone just needs to leave well enough alone and move on with it. All anyone is going to find at this point anyhow is circumstantial, word-of-mouth, “Who do we believe?”, horseshit evidence, a la baseball and the Mitchell Report. Do we really want another one of those shitstorms? I mean, honestly, has this really affected any of our lives as fans in a great way?
Somebody got caught. No one will do the taping any more. Teams will find other ways to get an edge. And on and on it will go. Like RJ said, competition breeds looking for an edge; always has, always will. Period.
[/quote]
exactly.
they got caught + they got fined + they’re not taping any more = MOVE ON.
and jeesus man and how long are these people going to rag on belichek for this ?i news flash folks: cheating is a part of the game. holding is cheating, pushing off is cheating, clipping is cheating, tripping is cheating, itentional grounding is cheating, roughing the passer is cheating, even faking roughing is cheating.
this shit happens in every game and you do your best not to get caught. you develoe skills to not get caught and the best players are the one’s who don’t. but if you do there’s a penalty, you take your penalty, for or against, and you play on. wtf is with all this “get to the full truth” shit ? do we really need an investigation to find out all the reason’s a guy decided a hold was his best play ?
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
The commissioner blatantly lying to the public and covering up that the team that has won three recent Super Bowls has been cheating is not a big deal?
Not as big as deal as you obviously think it is. Maybe if it were anyone else but Specter leading the charge, I could give a shit, but he’s a fucking low life piece of crap.
It is not the cheating, it is the cover up that makes me wonder.
You are normally libertarian/conservative leaning. I have to wonder why this issue has you singing like a left-wing big gov’t liberal.
I can only think that your hatred of the Pats has caused you to blur the lines of common sense just to exact some revenge.
[/quote]
hey hey, no need to cast aspersions here…I’m a liberal hippie and I hate all the stupid ass senate inquiries we’ve had in regards to sports of late (steroids, Patriots.)