I love football, and I’m all for fair competition. However, people should realize that everytime Congress steps in and starts these inane investigations, it costs millions of tax payer’s dollars. This baseball performance enhancement investigation is costing well over $20+ million.
How many roads could be fixed with that money, or improvements could have been seen if we put it into public schooling?
It’s an awful shame that some people would rather flush that kind of cash down the toilet over incessant complaining than have it be put to good use. Enough with this garbage. It makes me sick to think my federal tax dollars are going into finding out whether Roger Clemons took HGH, as if I gave a shit. Especially in such a slow and boring sport as baseball.
Congress needs to step in here just like they did in baseball with the Mitchell Report. Expose the wrongdoings to the public, so cheaters will be hesitant in the future.
Belicheat better be suspended some games next year. All of the superbowl wins are now tainted, not jus the rams win. Just goes to show you, if you are are a big A-hole like Belicheat people are going to get you! Down with the dynasty*!!!
[quote]Contrl wrote:
I love football, and I’m all for fair competition. However, people should realize that everytime Congress steps in and starts these inane investigations, it costs millions of tax payer’s dollars. This baseball performance enhancement investigation is costing well over $20+ million.
How many roads could be fixed with that money, or improvements could have been seen if we put it into public schooling?
It’s an awful shame that some people would rather flush that kind of cash down the toilet over incessant complaining than have it be put to good use. Enough with this garbage. It makes me sick to think my federal tax dollars are going into finding out whether Roger Clemons took HGH, as if I gave a shit. Especially in such a slow and boring sport as baseball.[/quote]
I’m curious as to where you get that dollar amount. Congress was invited by baseball to investigate. The Mitchell Report and its investigation was funded by Selig and MLB.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Arlan Specter needs to have a red hot poker shoved up his ass.
I hate the Patriots, but does this shit really need Congress stepping in?
Since the NFL tried to cover it up by destroying the evidence apparently someone has to step in.
The NFL’s behavior has been shameful. Goodell claimed he was going to clean up the league and instead he destroyed the evidence that the “best” team of the decade has been cheating.[/quote]
This is complete horsesh-t, how an individual sport disciplines behavior, or conducts itself is NONE OF CONGRESS’ business! We’re not talking about games being rigged for gambling purposes, nor has anyone said that anyone working FOR the nfl was helping any of this. Should Arlen Specter call a hearing because he doesnt like the NFL’s overtime rules? Nonsense. I dont care if the NFL institutes a rule that says “next year, all patriots will begin with the score 14-0, patriots” it is NONE OF CONGRESS’ BUSINESS. I certainly wouldnt watch any of the games, btu this whole business sickens me.
[quote]malonetd wrote:
If I wanted to watch games with predetermined outcomes, I’d watch WWE. I want some level of fairness in the NFL.[/quote]
You’re just mad because you had to deadlift in a thong.
The only reason I took that bet was because I knew the outcome before hand.
I don’t think the outcomes of any games has been predetermined. I think every team cheats. I don’t think that makes it right, but nor do I think it warrants a congressional inquisition.
Every where there is an athletic contest, there will be someone trying to skirt the edges of fair play to find an edge.
And Specter could have taken the NFL’s antitrust exemption with him. We could also quit subsidizing public stadiums, or prevent the nfl from broadcasting over the air.
The government has a huge interest in making sure that the game stays fair, and the nfl needs the government if it wants to keep functioning as well as it has the last 20 years.[/quote]
The hell he could take it. Specter is nothign but a public SERVANT and I sure as hell dont want the anti trust exemption taken away, nor do i want an end to the broadcasting of nfl games. Both congress and the nfl need the PEOPLE
I am glad to see some shining of the light into the dark corners of cheating, if there be such cheating.
I am not terribly excited about Congress getting involved.
Once again, I think the league is capable of handling the problem - you have 31 teams spending millions to win every year, I have to think that the other 31 teams would be more than happy to raise enough hell to get this fixed. The competition (and the subsequent revenues associated with winning) are too high for the other 31 teams to sit idle.
Of course, there is a public element - the ubiquitous anti-trust exemption that acts as the NFL’s carrot to welcome the stick.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
I am glad to see some shining of the light into the dark corners of cheating, if there be such cheating.
I am not terribly excited about Congress getting involved.
Once again, I think the league is capable of handling the problem - you have 31 teams spending millions to win every year, I have to think that the other 31 teams would be more than happy to raise enough hell to get this fixed. The competition (and the subsequent revenues associated with winning) are too high for the other 31 teams to sit idle.
Of course, there is a public element - the ubiquitous anti-trust exemption that acts as the NFL’s carrot to welcome the stick.[/quote]
I think the anti-trust exemption is way over played. Given that the exclusion is - what - 80 years old, it would be almost impossible to win the war of public opinion, or re-election for that matter, if Congress were to revoke it from any major professional sport. And if they revoke it for one sport, they will almost have to revoke it for all sports at the same time.
I can’t see how any NFL fan wouldn’t want this looked at further (cept maybe pats’ fans).
This could be unprecedented cheating, enough that it could nullify 3 SB victories. What would be done if it was proven? Take away the trophies, give it to the other team? Might sound silly, but that’s what is done at the olympic level.
I want to know how much of the game was affected by this. If it means Congress looking into it further because the NFL or journalists didn’t want to touch the legacy or the sanctity of the game, then so be it.
This deserves attention finally to at least get the full truth.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
<<< You are normally libertarian/conservative leaning. I have to wonder why this issue has you singing like a left-wing big gov’t liberal. >>>[/quote]
I gotta say Zap, you had me wondering in the Baseball/Steroids thread. I don’t get involved in too many political discussions here, but that’s how you always struck me and then there’s this sudden confidence in a humongous bloated bureaucracy to oversee sports. It’s not the job of federal government to have anything whatever to say about how the various leagues conduct themselves unless federal laws are broken.
So, watching and re-watching a taped game to determine a team’s style of play is kosher, but learning their signals along with it isn’t?? Call me crazy, but that is stupid. If you can review a game in its entirety, all that it encompasses is fair game. The Pats were the one’s that got caught first. I don’t see how it is illegal or cheating.
it’s one thing to know a teams style of play. it’s like playing your friend in Madden a few times, you pick up on their tendencies. But, if you look at their controller to see what play they’re running, that’s a huge advantage, and tell me that wouldn’t piss you off, lol
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Arlan Specter needs to have a red hot poker shoved up his ass.
I hate the Patriots, but does this shit really need Congress stepping in?
[/quote]
I’m of the opinion that the congress and steroid thing is stupid, but this is different. The league office did nothing about this and didn’t seem to worried with the destruction of evidence.
This could affect the outcome of the game directly, as opposed to steroids which you can never really say if they did or not.
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
it’s one thing to know a teams style of play. it’s like playing your friend in Madden a few times, you pick up on their tendencies. But, if you look at their controller to see what play they’re running, that’s a huge advantage, and tell me that wouldn’t piss you off, lol[/quote]
So, what’s stopping you from doing the same, or why didn’t you try to be more secretive? If you show your cards, people will look.
[quote]BigRagoo wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
it’s one thing to know a teams style of play. it’s like playing your friend in Madden a few times, you pick up on their tendencies. But, if you look at their controller to see what play they’re running, that’s a huge advantage, and tell me that wouldn’t piss you off, lol
So, what’s stopping you from doing the same, or why didn’t you try to be more secretive? If you show your cards, people will look.[/quote]
it’s called integrity, if more people had it in this world, it wouldn’t be so fucked up.
that being said, regardless of integrity or ethics, it was in violation of the rules
Okay. So it was a violation of the rules. I don’t think anyone is saying that it’s not. As was mentioned earlier - there are 31 other owners in this league. Do you honestly think the first step to remedying the situation is to have Congress step in?
ow about the other 31 teams getting a chance to chime in? Isn’t that what usually happens in the winter meetings, or whatever they call it in the NFL?
No one asked for Big Nose McBusybody Specter to weigh in. I am certain that the owners of the league are more than capable of policing their own short comings without the unwanted assistance of some assholes in DC.
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
BigRagoo wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
it’s one thing to know a teams style of play. it’s like playing your friend in Madden a few times, you pick up on their tendencies. But, if you look at their controller to see what play they’re running, that’s a huge advantage, and tell me that wouldn’t piss you off, lol
So, what’s stopping you from doing the same, or why didn’t you try to be more secretive? If you show your cards, people will look.
it’s called integrity, if more people had it in this world, it wouldn’t be so fucked up.
that being said, regardless of integrity or ethics, it was in violation of the rules[/quote]
Haha, integrity in pro sports? That’s funny. When the bottom line is your bottom line, integrity goes by the wayside. Don’t get me wrong, I think it is classless, but when you’re pressed to generate $$$$$, ethics shrink.
And yes, the world would be better if people held onto their integrity, but absolute honest men don’t make millions for themselves or anyone else. That’s money for ya.
OK, I’ll chime in from a Coach perspective. When I Coach baseball, I pretty much run the same type of defense and offense as most of the other Coaches. I try though to hide (disguise) what I am doing. I send in signals to my team and assistant Coaches to let them know what is happening. If another team can break apart or know what my signals are they have an advantaged. The advantage is that much more if I don’t know they know.
As a Coach I get lucky every once in awhile and figure out a signal and the other Coach doesn’t know. My advantage and no cheat. Bill and the Pat’s are cheaters. Yet, I like them hell of a lot better than the St. Louis pussy’s with Warner the wiener and Martz.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
malonetd wrote:
If I wanted to watch games with predetermined outcomes, I’d watch WWE. I want some level of fairness in the NFL.
You’re just mad because you had to deadlift in a thong.
The only reason I took that bet was because I knew the outcome before hand.
I don’t think the outcomes of any games has been predetermined. I think every team cheats. I don’t think that makes it right, but nor do I think it warrants a congressional inquisition.
Every where there is an athletic contest, there will be someone trying to skirt the edges of fair play to find an edge.
That’s the nature of competition. [/quote]
I don’t think any of the games were rigged, either. I was responding to someone who said “who cares if the games are rigged.”
As far as taping the sidelines and stealing signals, I don’t care that much. And I’m fairly sure that other teams have done something similar. I do, however, think that taping a team’s private walk-through, like the Pats did to the Rams, IS a big deal.