Overtraining Is Real

Training Bodybuilding
41

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
MODOK wrote:
The only time I stagnate in my training is when I am dieting down really low. At that point, my training mentality shifts to “fight to keep the poundage I had at 220 lbs, at 200 lbs bw”. The only time I “overtrain” is when I break something… A-C separation, stress fracture, pop a hamstring…then I say "maybe I need to back off next week. Your body WILL adapt if you are supporting it…don’t underestimate it.

Well, the guy above you, who is no doubt simply amazingly developed, seems to believe this is impossible.

I take one to two days off a week if necessary. Anyone needing entire weeks and months off just because they trained regularly for four months is likely very weak as far as genetic potential or athleticism.

This activity is not for everyone and not everyone is at the shallow end of the gene pool.

I agree, Modok, the only time I felt run down was when I was training 6 days a week during final exams and board exams…ie, it was stress related fatigue and not some need of my body as far as “overtraining” just because I lifted regularly.

I doubt most here are training anywhere near intense enough to need regular scheduled weeks off unless they simply are not eating/resting enough to support their training.

LOL um… NO
I don’t think it’s impossible to overtrain so hard that you pop a hamstring. I thought I clearly stated if they don’t “THEY GET INJURED” and have to take time off, I never knew the whole goal was to train until you get injured, for some odd reason I thought people wanted to avoid injury and train harder… Oh that’s right I also said non-TNation characters, so forget what I just said.

Already forgotten. You are one of those “I will never post pics” guys. You know, the ones who log into all of these threads to give their advice but for some reason seem afraid to show how amazingly developed they are to justify the advice.
[/quote]

I was about to say your right until you said “amazingly developed”, I have to look through my posts and see where I said this…

42

[quote]Magarhe wrote:
You should NEVER take a break - not even between sets. You should lift weights every minute of the hour, 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week. I am squatting as I type this. THERE IS NO NEED TO EVER STOP LIFTING WEIGHTS!!![/quote]

I dunno man, I’ll have to stop for when I’m sleeping, eating or on the shitter.

43

[quote]MODOK wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
MODOK wrote:
The only time I stagnate in my training is when I am dieting down really low. At that point, my training mentality shifts to “fight to keep the poundage I had at 220 lbs, at 200 lbs bw”. The only time I “overtrain” is when I break something… A-C separation, stress fracture, pop a hamstring…then I say "maybe I need to back off next week. Your body WILL adapt if you are supporting it…don’t underestimate it.

Well, the guy above you, who is no doubt simply amazingly developed, seems to believe this is impossible.

I take one to two days off a week if necessary. Anyone needing entire weeks and months off just because they trained regularly for four months is likely very weak as far as genetic potential or athleticism.

This activity is not for everyone and not everyone is at the shallow end of the gene pool.

I agree, Modok, the only time I felt run down was when I was training 6 days a week during final exams and board exams…ie, it was stress related fatigue and not some need of my body as far as “overtraining” just because I lifted regularly.

I doubt most here are training anywhere near intense enough to need regular scheduled weeks off unless they simply are not eating/resting enough to support their training.

LOL um… NO
I don’t think it’s impossible to overtrain so hard that you pop a hamstring. I thought I clearly stated if they don’t “THEY GET INJURED” and have to take time off, I never knew the whole goal was to train until you get injured, for some odd reason I thought people wanted to avoid injury and train harder… Oh that’s right I also said non-TNation characters, so forget what I just said.

You are quite annoying with your lack of reading comprehension. Nobody give a shit if you de-load 3 weeks out of 4 if you want. Do whatever you want. But don’t get sad when people blow by you in strength and size and blame it on genetics or lack of gear when in fact your just being a big ol’ pussy.

And no one here said we don’t have days off during the week, Nimrod. If you train 4xweek, you’v of course, have 3 days off…5x a week you have 2, etc. So if you are training 4xweek (as the majority is), how many more fucking days of rest do you want?[/quote]

LOL Don’t worry if I say some bullshit I get annoyed when people correct me too.
But I don’t start whining and making up shit.
Eat a dick bitch

44

Overtraining is very very real.

No matter how much food you stuff down your throat it CAN happen, your CNS can only take so much, and your body as a whole has its limits to how much and how fast it can heal, no matter what you give it.

Lets start this off with diet, I was intaking over 6000 calories a day, protien well above 400 grams many days 500, 8-10 eggs a day, several pounds of meat, half a container of cottage cheese, several protien shakes, pasturized eggwhites mixed into more than a half a gallon of milk…

You get the idea. High carb, High fat, High protien.

I was on a fairly heavily dosed steroid cycle, over a gram of injectables, and orals on top. Nothing crazy, but certainly not a beginner cycle.

Body weight was about 250 pounds. Sleeping atleast 8 hours a night.

Training 5 days a week, lifting very heavy. Problem is, I was playing sports on my “off” days. And just pushing the weights higher and higher, lots of volume, 2 hour workouts.

No stims, no fat burners, nothing of that sort, but I started to crash, hard. Strength started to dip, energy fell, appetite went to nothing, I was having to force feed constantly, sex drive was down even on a large ammount of test.

I tried to just push through it, after about a week I was getting irritable, sleeping alot through the day, losing motivation completely.

Finally I figured I had to be overdoing it…I cut the sports out of my off days, and actually rested, and took 3 days off in a row, just sitting around.

My strength started flying agian, felt great, appetite returned and then some…

You have limits, its unlikely that most people will EVER hit those limits due to lack of training intensity, but its certainly possible to hit them without doing anything really crazy.

No ammount of steroids or food or sleep can save you if your hitting it too hard.

45

[quote]redgladiator wrote:
Magarhe wrote:
You should NEVER take a break - not even between sets. You should lift weights every minute of the hour, 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week. I am squatting as I type this. THERE IS NO NEED TO EVER STOP LIFTING WEIGHTS!!!

I dunno man, I’ll have to stop for when I’m sleeping, eating or on the shitter.[/quote]

Then you will LAG BEHIND

Seriously though you can’t workout non-stop and the breaks, between days at the gym, between working the same bodypart twice, between sets even all makes a difference.

There are plenty of top - and I mean the TOP - people who back off. Everyone knows that. Unfortunately there are lots of people - beginners - who take too many rests, back off etc… and use it as an excuse.

46

[quote]Airtruth wrote:

LOL Don’t worry if I say some bullshit I get annoyed when people correct me too.
But I don’t start whining and making up shit.
Eat a dick bitch[/quote]

Are you high? You gotta be. You don’t make any sense.

47

I love all this…debating! I’m getting married in a few weeks, i’ve been on a fairly strict macro cycling program. I’m between 2100 and 2600 kcal per day. I’m about 190 right now and roughly 9% BF. I wake up at 4:30 to do some sort of interval work. I combine that with foam/pvc rolling and stretching. I then head back in the PM to train. I would say i’m hammering myself pretty hard, with low calories compared to maintenance, and I feel FUCKIN AWESOME! I take a session off here and there when I feel like it. I guess I just “listen to my body” and it’s worked so far.

My plan was to take the week after the wedding “off,” whatever the hell that means! My chick doesn’t believe i can stay out of the gym for a week. I guess we will see.

Overtraining??? I would say it exists in certain cases…but you better have all your ducks in a row(diet, rest, pre hab, stretching, etc) before you throw that term out.

48

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Goodfellow wrote:

I’m eating over 3500 calories a day at 185lbs. I literally went off force fed myself after the thread the other day (put down 4 big sausages, 12oz potatoes, 3 gatorades, 4 scoops whey and a doughnut) and I still felt like shit today. I don’t see how this isn’t enough.

You are quoting numbers as if that means something. Unless your weight is actually going up slowly, then 3,500 may not be enough. Also, eating more for one day (and no one said anything eating doughnuts) does not erase WEEKS and months of doing the wrong thing.[/quote]

I agree and would like to add that eating a humongous meal to try to compensate for overtraining will only add an additional stress to your body and probably make things worse.

49

Hahaha, all this talk is funny, only because im on a week off right now, im not one bit overtrained, but this is how i do it, a week off every 7-8 weeks…

I cant explain how valuable it is to me… Just to eat, to relax and rest. And man is it a good recipe for hunger in the gym.

Think of it like this if you will, its like a chart. the peak is going up and up and up, then week 8 comes along and the peak levels for a week or so, then i come back in the gym and the peak starts to rise again, thats how i see it, and thats how it works.

*for those that will say, if you dont take the week off the peak will just keep going and you’ll get there faster without a break… I say, good for you, i really know how my mind and body works, i need that break.

50

[quote]Magarhe wrote:
You should NEVER take a break - not even between sets. You should lift weights every minute of the hour, 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week. I am squatting as I type this. THERE IS NO NEED TO EVER STOP LIFTING WEIGHTS!!![/quote]

I’m sorry but when I read this I laughed my ass off. Any way lately I’ve been feeling tired in the gym I’ve been blasting on dc for ten weeks so I went on a coast or cruise whatever its called for ten days seems to help out. I used to never believe in taking off and I never herd of deloading but I think deloading has its place u can’t go balls out all the time forever.I also found out that not expending much energy in between sets helps out a lot like putting the weights away slowely and walking slow I try and be like a turtle. Then when I get under the weights I use all I got.

51

[quote]Westclock wrote:
Overtraining is very very real.

No matter how much food you stuff down your throat or sleep you get (edit; oe) it CAN happen, your CNS can only take so much, and your body as a whole has its limits to how much and how fast it can heal, no matter what you give it.

[/quote]

This topic comes up about every 6 months. I think this above statement should be quoted somewhere on the main page so it doesn’t come up again. This is what everyone needs to know. Anyone who hasn’t discovered it just hasn’t pushed that hard yet.

52

[quote]MODOK wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
MODOK wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
MODOK wrote:
The only time I stagnate in my training is when I am dieting down really low. At that point, my training mentality shifts to “fight to keep the poundage I had at 220 lbs, at 200 lbs bw”. The only time I “overtrain” is when I break something… A-C separation, stress fracture, pop a hamstring…then I say "maybe I need to back off next week. Your body WILL adapt if you are supporting it…don’t underestimate it.

Well, the guy above you, who is no doubt simply amazingly developed, seems to believe this is impossible.

I take one to two days off a week if necessary. Anyone needing entire weeks and months off just because they trained regularly for four months is likely very weak as far as genetic potential or athleticism.

This activity is not for everyone and not everyone is at the shallow end of the gene pool.

I agree, Modok, the only time I felt run down was when I was training 6 days a week during final exams and board exams…ie, it was stress related fatigue and not some need of my body as far as “overtraining” just because I lifted regularly.

I doubt most here are training anywhere near intense enough to need regular scheduled weeks off unless they simply are not eating/resting enough to support their training.

LOL um… NO
I don’t think it’s impossible to overtrain so hard that you pop a hamstring. I thought I clearly stated if they don’t “THEY GET INJURED” and have to take time off, I never knew the whole goal was to train until you get injured, for some odd reason I thought people wanted to avoid injury and train harder… Oh that’s right I also said non-TNation characters, so forget what I just said.

You are quite annoying with your lack of reading comprehension. Nobody give a shit if you de-load 3 weeks out of 4 if you want. Do whatever you want. But don’t get sad when people blow by you in strength and size and blame it on genetics or lack of gear when in fact your just being a big ol’ pussy.

And no one here said we don’t have days off during the week, Nimrod. If you train 4xweek, you’v of course, have 3 days off…5x a week you have 2, etc. So if you are training 4xweek (as the majority is), how many more fucking days of rest do you want?

LOL Don’t worry if I say some bullshit I get annoyed when people correct me too.
But I don’t start whining and making up shit.
Eat a dick bitch

Lithium- look into it.[/quote]

googling now

53

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Paegan_Love_Song wrote:
waylanderxx wrote:
OldDirtyCracker wrote:
This is what i hate. You sons of bitches who know how other people feel. Who is over 30, not on gear(which I have no problem with) and has never felt run down after 3-5 hard days regardless of sleep and food? Who never came down with something immediately after a workout?

You get run down after 3-5 days of lifting? Unless by over 30 you mean you are 77 I don’t see how that can happen. Maybe you just need to check your eating habits and look into some HRT.

What’s HRT??

Hormone Replacement Therapy.[/quote]

Oh, duh. Thanks.

54

[quote]Westclock wrote:
Overtraining is very very real.

No matter how much food you stuff down your throat it CAN happen, your CNS can only take so much, and your body as a whole has its limits to how much and how fast it can heal, no matter what you give it.

Win. Sure if you are gifted genetically you can push the limits ( I personally take an extra day here and there if I need it), but most “average” people need to listen to their bodies. Which is’nt an excuse to slack off however. I’d rather take the extra day, go in the next day and hammer it, than push through and have a really average workout. Don’t be afraid to eat on that extra day off either .

Lets start this off with diet, I was intaking over 6000 calories a day, protien well above 400 grams many days 500, 8-10 eggs a day, several pounds of meat, half a container of cottage cheese, several protien shakes, pasturized eggwhites mixed into more than a half a gallon of milk…

You get the idea. High carb, High fat, High protien.

I was on a fairly heavily dosed steroid cycle, over a gram of injectables, and orals on top. Nothing crazy, but certainly not a beginner cycle.

Body weight was about 250 pounds. Sleeping atleast 8 hours a night.

Training 5 days a week, lifting very heavy. Problem is, I was playing sports on my “off” days. And just pushing the weights higher and higher, lots of volume, 2 hour workouts.

No stims, no fat burners, nothing of that sort, but I started to crash, hard. Strength started to dip, energy fell, appetite went to nothing, I was having to force feed constantly, sex drive was down even on a large ammount of test.

I tried to just push through it, after about a week I was getting irritable, sleeping alot through the day, losing motivation completely.

Finally I figured I had to be overdoing it…I cut the sports out of my off days, and actually rested, and took 3 days off in a row, just sitting around.

My strength started flying agian, felt great, appetite returned and then some…

You have limits, its unlikely that most people will EVER hit those limits due to lack of training intensity, but its certainly possible to hit them without doing anything really crazy.

No ammount of steroids or food or sleep can save you if your hitting it too hard.[/quote]

55

[quote]MODOK wrote:
The only time I stagnate in my training is when I am dieting down really low. At that point, my training mentality shifts to “fight to keep the poundage I had at 220 lbs, at 200 lbs bw”.

The only time I “overtrain” is when I break something… A-C separation, stress fracture, pop a hamstring…then I say "maybe I need to back off next week. Your body WILL adapt if you are supporting it…don’t underestimate it.[/quote]

Good post!

56

[quote]redgladiator wrote:
Magarhe wrote:
You should NEVER take a break - not even between sets. You should lift weights every minute of the hour, 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week. I am squatting as I type this. THERE IS NO NEED TO EVER STOP LIFTING WEIGHTS!!!

I dunno man, I’ll have to stop for when I’m sleeping, eating or on the shitter.[/quote]

eating - leg extensions or calf raises
on the shitter - db curls or overhead db presses
sleeping - damn! you got me there…

57

[quote]jd_dd wrote:
redgladiator wrote:
Magarhe wrote:
You should NEVER take a break - not even between sets. You should lift weights every minute of the hour, 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week. I am squatting as I type this. THERE IS NO NEED TO EVER STOP LIFTING WEIGHTS!!!

I dunno man, I’ll have to stop for when I’m sleeping, eating or on the shitter.

eating - leg extensions or calf raises
on the shitter - db curls or overhead db presses
sleeping - damn! you got me there…[/quote]

People don’t jerk off anymore?

58

[quote]MODOK wrote:
Westclock wrote:
You have limits, its unlikely that most people will EVER hit those limits due to lack of training intensity, but its certainly possible to hit them without doing anything really crazy.

The first sentence is actually the point we have been trying to get across. Younger trainees see this as a paradigm and take it as the gospel, when they are still benching 135 and squatting 185, when they could be training straight through for a couple of years with absolutely no down time and getting their numbers up. You have to be careful what you say around these noobs…stuff like this screws them UP.

And I would have to say, in speaking to your situation, 12 hours a week of intense weight training AND playing sports would qualify as pretty “crazy”, geared or not. Most folks can’t even handle half that much training volume. So, in your case, yes I’m sure you overtrained. Training 5-6 hours a week though would be a vastly different story, I’m sure you’d agree.
[/quote]

Of course.
Im merely providing an example for them to look at.

I had never experienced “overtraining” before in many years of powerlifting/sports. Even as a natural, I had never encountered these problems, I never took “light days” in the gym, I just lifted as heavy and hard as I could, at everything I could, all the time.

And even with my somewhat moronic program in which I thought I was invincible…it actually took almost 6 weeks at that pace before I started to crash.

So unless the training program is borderline nonsense, its simply diet/sleep related.

It just seems odd that people state the body doesnt have limits, that it cant overtrain. I realize your not stating this, but many people talk in that manner. It just doesnt even sound reasonable when one says it outloud.

There is absoluetly a ceiling, its high as hell, but its there, and it took me years to ever even see it.

59

Some people do overtrain at much lower training volumes for many reasons.

I used to overtrain all the freakin time, but I used to eat things that fucked up my digestive tract big time. I hadn’t a clue that this affected training, but it did. Essentially I’ve wasted my entire training life.

Scoff if you want but I have just recently adopted the elimination diet. I think food allergens were fucking up my digestion so bad that no matter how much food I ate I couldn’t grow.

Farting volume has now become inversely proportional to training volume. I love it.

60

For me the easiest way to tell if I’m overtraining starts with keeping track of all other variables. Log every rep and every pound in the gym, and keep track of everything you eat during the day. If I’m hitting it hard and eating big, the lifts go up. If the lifts plateau, my first reaction is to eat more, and so I will, and the lifts usually go up again. If I am going with full intensity in the gym, and eating big, and gaining weight this whole time, but the numbers aren’t going up, that is when I take a week off.

When you get back in the gym it may take a week to be firing on all cylinders, but shortly after the break my lifts will show improvements again. I’m simplifying a lot here but that is the basics of how I monitor myself. If you don’t keep track of your diet and what you do in the gym, then its easy to think you’re overtraining when you plateau, when really you just haven’t addressed one of the basics.