To be honest, I think the thing that people find ridiculous about you is that all the claims you make about these things having improved your clinch strength, having made your punches “bone shattering” etc are only in your opinion but you state it as fact.
If there was a respected boxing coach you were working with who was making these claims about you having “mind numbing” power, it would be worth something. But when a guy who doesn’t fight and doesn’t even train with fighters makes these claims it is laughable.
When fighters and trainers are telling you that you have great power, that is the time when you can consider making those claims, not before. Do you get what I’m saying?
The underlying assertion that IronClaws is making is more or less correct: conditioning is important. Everyone could always be stronger, faster, have better recovery and more endurance.
I agree with Johnny, that it’s the absurd claims you’re (IronClaws)making about you fighting prowess that discredits you. If you’d made general claims from the start, it’d have seemed less like a troll job. Sure, there’s some metric for skill and athleticism, where great athleticism and no skill will beat lots of skill with no athleticism. Or where sheer size will win.
But those occur at the extremes. I grappled with a women’s Pan American champ. She couldn’t submit me back when I first started training. I had 90 pounds on her. That’s a pretty extreme difference. And not getting submitted by a woman I outweigh by 90 pounds is not something I typically go around bragging about.
One of the great things about combat sports/ring sports is that unlike many other sports (and TMAs) that kind of bullshitting really isn’t part of it. If you train and fight, you’re sparring and/or grappling with your training partners constantly. You all pretty much know where you stand next to each other, people tend not to make absurd claims about themselves in that type of environment. Real competition, that your training partners will also be privy to, outside where you train will give you a better sense of where you stand against other practitioners as a whole. Again, not a lot of room for bullshitting and making absurd claims (except on the internets of course).
In these activities you don’t get to blame other people on your team like in a team sport, and rationalizing why you “should have won” or how you’re actually better than the guy who just handed you your ass gets pretty tough.
Join a good Muay Thai gym, and train with their fighters. I guarantee you will get tooled by some 135ers who also “somehow” manage to hit much harder than you.
I’m well aware that small people can hit hard. For example:
“A study of seven Olympic boxers in weight classes ranging from flyweight to super heavyweight showed a range of 447 to 1,066 pounds of peak punching force. Energy transferred from punch to target varied widely depending on how heavy the boxers? hands and gloves were, how fast they punched, and how rigidly they held their wrists. The three flyweights, interestingly, delivered more oomph than all but the two super heavyweights.” - The Straight Dope ( Is it possible to land a punch at 2,000 pounds per square inch? - The Straight Dope )
I wouldn’t want to get slugged in the face by Manny Pacquiao. I never said smaller men can’t drop the hammer just as hard as larger men. What I do think, is that whatever “size” you are, you should probably be ripped like Pacquiao as a combat athlete, whether or not it helps you strike harder, to help you ABSORB blows. (though I think throwing punches will build ab musculature and back musculature to a very good degree if you are throwing hard or often enough at a heavy-bag and that they probably help you in that)
People tell you to muscle up to avoid injuries in day to day life like taking out the trash, to work the neck muscles because they can help you avoid catastrophic injury in a miss-step or fall. This is 100x more true for any combat sport you want to fight in.
Like George Chuvalo points out, having a neck like a stack of dimes isn’t going to help you with-stand blows.
[quote]IronClaws wrote:
weight isn’t all that matters. I never said it was. hypertrophy and strength are two different things. muscular-mass and strength are only roughly correlated. the quality of the mass, the quality of the tendons/ligaments and etc do matter a lot, though.
some little guys have insane strength of the tendons. some little guys can do 2 finger pullups with 150pounds strapped across the waist. In one of the “molding a mighty X” series by George F Jowett he relates some massive strong-man with incredible feats of strength sitting down to arm wrestle this tiny man from montreal.
However when the strongman locked hands with this guy, allegedly it was like putting your hand in a vice-grip, and the effort it took to put this man’s arm down, was apparently other-wordly. That he could just barely do it. (the guy happened to be a full time lumberjack. just some tiny guy)
strength is a function of tendon/ligament strength a lot of the time. Look at the mighty atom for example. it doesn’t surprise me that someone 30pounds lighter could throw you around, if they were stronger. out-weighing someone is meaningless if they are stronger, faster and can generate more power than you. weight only means anything at all when it helps you accomplish those things.
Hell, even 30pounds of muscle is next to useless if it’s puffed up cotton candy. Some really muscular guys can’t run down the street without collapsing, others can. Look at Alexander Karelin, guy was conditioned like an animal in his prime.
I don’t professional fight yet. I do train, I never once claimed I didn’t train. Or that i didn’t train against other people. I also never said that sparring or training with other people (wrestling, clinching etc) doesn’t build insane strength. I know that it does. [/quote]
He’s fucking weak. I am stronger, faster, younger, and have better endurance (specific endurance) than him. The 30lbs isn’t cotton candy, he’s as lean as I am and we’re both sitting at about 15% BF. He still fucks me up regularly.
Imagine the danger if some newbie enters and see this thread and start to take all this shit seriously just because he writes well and do informative posts about BS that disguise themselves as facts.
Imagine the danger if some newbie enters and see this thread and start to take all this shit seriously just because he writes well and do informative posts about BS that disguise themselves as facts.[/quote]
I do not think anyone is going to go to the extremes that IronClaws proposes and disregard Xen Nova, Irish, Sento, or JonnyTMT. If they do, stupid hurts.
I think the damage of someone buying into the hyperbole is minimal. Not only is it obvious, but how many newbies are going to spend hours everyday on GPP. For how long?
Think of all the good it brought, Irish’s post, KMC’s posting, Westdale Warrior getting into the fray (who still owes us all dirk photos!), and do not act like you did not learn something very important. You learned of the awesome that is FireFly. Let me know when you get the series watched so I don’t have to hold spoilers.
Cmon, the guy has a valid point, how many of you guys here would give Pacman a chance against Klitschko or Dominic Cruz a chance against Junior dos Santos? Size does matter, thats why we have weightclasses. If your desire is to be the best streetfighter killingmachine ever, maybe you should starts carrying that maul with you where ever you go, that way you splitting wood would actually be sport specific training .
No one is arguing that.
We’re arguing that doing just GPP when you have absolutely zero skill set is retarded.
That regardless of bone crushing power, if you don’t know how to set them up, that it doesn’t matter.
That despite all your strength, sledge hammering and what not, if you don’t know how to fight in some way, you are going to get flayed.
Yes, Pacman versus those guys would probably end poorly, but that’s cause they’re all very skilled fighters.
They already have a high skillset.
Fedor had a problem with this guy despite the guy’s total lack of skill, fedor is a huge man who trains really hard and is super conditioned, and uses a sledge-hammer, he’s super-skilled no doubt. But he still had some problem against this guy, had to be very cautious, and won by using an arm-bar that he had failed to apply the first time, so hong choi should have been watching for it.
keep in mind this is just from what I remember of the fight from the first time i watched it. need to re-watch it. a better example would be crocop busting up bob-sap’s face.
I’d also question if hong choi mon was as conditioned as fedor, or had the same type of “explosive” strength. Guy was way bigger and threw his body-weight around, I doubt his explosive strength, conditioning, cardio, etc were anywhere near fedor’s. Good post though, was cool to re-watch.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I have never seen one guy who knows absolutely nothing about fighting go through the trouble of quoting all these historical references.
My hat is off to this bitch. He can’t fight, but he does read a lot.[/quote]
.