Hi, I just started overhead squatting because I would eventually like to have a Heavy Snatch (wait, what?).
Shoulder flexibility is not an issue when I try to overhead squat, it’s my lower body.
My knees cave in and I also end up squatting extremely on my toes.
So if some of the experienced Olympic lifters on here could tell me what is lacking and how to fix it so I can start to make progress on my overhead squat.
Thanks
Sounds like a lack of hamstring/glute flexibility. Tight hamstrings will make it harder to hit depth with your heels planted on the floor. Tight/weak glutes (especially the glute medius) will contribute to knees caving.
FWIW I’m not an experienced Oly lifter, but what you’re talking about seems pretty much the same across the board as far as squatting movements go.
Stretch your hammies every day. Make it a habit. Also, concentrate on driving the knees apart when squatting (back, front, whenever you squat). If you’re really serious about it, get some bands or medical tubing, and wrap it around your knees to provide some resistance for driving your knees apart.
I had the same problems when I first ever started lifting and was learning to back squat. That is what worked for me.
Some solid advice above.
To add, are you sure your shoulders are flexible enough? I just did an overhead squat without a bar to check. Once coming on to my toes and again with the heels planted on the floor and it’s definitely easier to keep your arms straight up coming on to your toes.
If you go on to your toes, your torso stays in a much more vertical position whereas when you keep the heels on the floor your torso is leaning a bit forwards so your shoulders rotate back to keep the bar straight above you.
It might well just be your hip/knee flexibility that is an issue but I wouldn’t be too quick to dismiss your shoulders. You should do some dynamic stretching for shoulders and lower body before you lift anyway regardless of whether it is a limiting factor so just don’t neglect anything there and in time your flexibility will improve.
When doing your overhead squats to start I would just go down as low as you can manage while keeping your heels planted on the floor. If this isn’t full depth, don’t go to full depth. Just go as deep as you can and over time you will be able to sink lower.
Hm… I can put my palms on the floor with my legs straight so it’s probably not my hamstrings.
But I’ll stretch my Hamstrings and Glutes everyday for the next week or so and see if it improves my form.
And I’ll just do OH Squats as low as I can go with my heels on the floor, and get progressively lower.
Thanks guys I’ll update the thread on my progress
Good luck. Sounds like your hammies are very flexible, so as Ox Man said, shoulder flexibility is likely playing a large role as well.
Do any of you guys have a test of shoulder flexibility that I could asses myself with?
If you can do a full shoulder rotation with a snatch grip on a broom stick, you’re fine.
Also, hamstring/glute flexibility does not mean that much. Its a matter of strength/neural activation. Either, your body has not learnt the motor patterns required to activate the hams and glutes, or they are weak.
To fix this, focus on keeping a very tight core and keeping the weight on the heels at the bottom of any squat position. As for assistance, try glute activation/strength work. Tight hip flexors and dominante quads can cause this as well.
Side note: If you want to be good at Snatching, do snatches. Unfortunately very little benefit is derived out of the snatch squat when it is loaded. The movement patterns are not similar enough to offer a large amount of benefit. Staples of assistance include snatch pulls, snatch deads, power snatch, full snatch and any combination of the three (snatch dead to snatch pull to power snatch to full snatch is an example)
are you wearing olympic lifting shoes ? i had poor shoulder mobility when i started lifting but i could still overhead squat with a wide grip
ankle flexbiity could be a factor to you will never squat deep if the knees can’t travel over the toes some
gets some oly shoes if not try putting some 5kg plates under your heels
do some windmills do 25,shoulder dislocations do 10-15,leg swings do 20 each leg,lay on the floor trying hit your arse with you heels do 20 each leg,goblet squats and push your knees out in the bottom of the squat and hold it for about 20 seconds
Thanks for the tips guys
Kind of a n00b question but how do I determine how wide or narrow my grip should be on the snatch?
Whatevers comfortable mate start at the rings see what work for you
[quote]H4d193 wrote:
Thanks for the tips guys
Kind of a n00b question but how do I determine how wide or narrow my grip should be on the snatch?[/quote]
I think a good measure is a grip width that allows the bar to be about level with your hips when your arms are hanging.
Throw these into your warm up, too. They are straight from Robertson’s “Assess and Correct,” and they’re a great warm up on any squat day.
As far as the grip width is for the snatch/overhead press, I just looked at what a bunch of different guys at the last couple Olympics have done. For instance, the 69kg class (I think most of them are 5’7" or 5’8") had their pinkys on the rings or like an inch outside. Look up your weight class and see what they’re doing.
Overhead squat to up your snatch? Why not snatch more often/heavier? OH squats are pretty much a waste of time.
[quote]wookieeassassin wrote:
As far as the grip width is for the snatch/overhead press, I just looked at what a bunch of different guys at the last couple Olympics have done. For instance, the 69kg class (I think most of them are 5’7" or 5’8") had their pinkys on the rings or like an inch outside. Look up your weight class and see what they’re doing.[/quote]
The 69’s are shorter then that man… 5’5 and 5’6 tops in general! The 77 and 85’s are about 5’7 or 5’8.
Koing
[quote]Rah-Knee wrote:
Overhead squat to up your snatch? Why not snatch more often/heavier? OH squats are pretty much a waste of time.[/quote]
The Overhead Squat is the catch phase of the snatch so if I can’t OHS the bar with good technique because of a flexibility issue how can I snatch more weight than that
[quote]H4d193 wrote:
[quote]Rah-Knee wrote:
Overhead squat to up your snatch? Why not snatch more often/heavier? OH squats are pretty much a waste of time.[/quote]
The Overhead Squat is the catch phase of the snatch so if I can’t OHS the bar with good technique because of a flexibility issue how can I snatch more weight than that
[/quote]
Well technically it isn’t. What you supposed to be doing with the snatch is pulling yourself under the bar into the bottom of the catch phase, not throwing it overhead, then squatting down (as I have been learning). Which is what the overhead squat would translate to.
I will agree and say - that the OH squat is not the best choice for developing the snatch.
the variations of snatch pulls, hang or power snatches, and snatching of blocks will give better bang for buck
that being said OH squat is my number one diagnostic tool
I use them every time I squat or deadlift. ( or pulls or cleans)
I can tell within a few sets if I am ready to squat/deadlift
or do I need to go back and do more mobility work first
OH sqauts - are great for learning squat mechanics
how to keep a tight core
an upright posture
to initiate the squat via the glutes and hips
if I cant get realitively light weights for ten I need to do other work first.
what kind of foam/pvc work and mobility work do you do?
most hip and knee issues start at the ankle or the glutes.
incorporating some mobility work into your warm up will do more then static stretching
[quote]H4d193 wrote:
[quote]Rah-Knee wrote:
Overhead squat to up your snatch? Why not snatch more often/heavier? OH squats are pretty much a waste of time.[/quote]
The Overhead Squat is the catch phase of the snatch so if I can’t OHS the bar with good technique because of a flexibility issue how can I snatch more weight than that
[/quote]
OHS and Snatch are two completely different animals. I can Snatch 100kg but I’m pretty sure I would fail at snatch squatting like 70. I know people that snatch squat more than me, but suck at snatch. Trust me, you’re better off doing pulls and power snatch
[quote]H4d193 wrote:
[quote]Rah-Knee wrote:
Overhead squat to up your snatch? Why not snatch more often/heavier? OH squats are pretty much a waste of time.[/quote]
The Overhead Squat is the catch phase of the snatch so if I can’t OHS the bar with good technique because of a flexibility issue how can I snatch more weight than that
[/quote]
Once beyond a beginner you don’t really need to OHS unless you can’t front/ back squat STRICTLY. There is no reason why you can’t at least OHS about 50-60% of your 1RM back squat IF YOU SQUAT STRICTLY. If you do not squat strictly in the front/ back squat you may need to do some OHS to get more comfortable in the receive position besides Snatching.
I’ve Snatched 122 but I’ve never OHS more then 95kg. I’d probably strugle to do 105/110? The lowering phase of the OHS is tough at heavy weights. You don’t do that in the Snatch if you do the lift properly. You don’t do a long eccentric squat with weight over your head! I never OHS but I can front and back squat 170/201 strict. I will be able to get up with anything I get over head if I get under it properly in the Snatch.
Koing