You get either the guys who a) do them regularly as part of their program or b) guys who scoff at them as not being functional & a show off exercise unless you actually compete in Olympic lifting events…
I use them as a warmup on my leg day & also for some shoulder/upper back work. You are basically forced to do full ATG & ROM on this exercise otherwise it gets ugly fast. IMO a great exercise but not one for mass building, more so a diagnostic one to check posterior weaknesses & imbalances.
[quote]CrookedCrown wrote:
I remember an interview in Flex a few years back with Mariusz Pudzianowski, in which his C&J was listed as 462lbs. and his snatch was listed as 440lbs. If those weights are accurate, thats a pretty small difference in weight considering the two lifts. Granted, MP isn’t an olympic lifter, just a very, very strong dude. [/quote]
I would question if that is accurate. However, if I had to guess, this is more of an indicator that Mariusz isn’t highly skilled at either lift (are we talking three white lights in the snatch, or pull it high enough to lock it out?) and that they basically both look the same?
Koklyaev (who is a strongman and a national weightlifting champion in Russia) posts a 462 snatch and a 550 clean and snatch. This is much closer to the kind of spread I think you normally see. Pyrros Dimas has a career best of 397.1 in the snatch and 473 in the C & J.
So Mariusz is probably posting those numbers despite his lack of technique, not because of it.
[quote]Andrew.Cook wrote:
CrookedCrown wrote:
I remember an interview in Flex a few years back with Mariusz Pudzianowski, in which his C&J was listed as 462lbs. and his snatch was listed as 440lbs. If those weights are accurate, thats a pretty small difference in weight considering the two lifts. Granted, MP isn’t an olympic lifter, just a very, very strong dude.
I would question if that is accurate. However, if I had to guess, this is more of an indicator that Mariusz isn’t highly skilled at either lift (are we talking three white lights in the snatch, or pull it high enough to lock it out?) and that they basically both look the same?
Koklyaev (who is a strongman and a national weightlifting champion in Russia) posts a 462 snatch and a 550 clean and snatch. This is much closer to the kind of spread I think you normally see. Pyrros Dimas has a career best of 397.1 in the snatch and 473 in the C & J.
So Mariusz is probably posting those numbers despite his lack of technique, not because of it. [/quote]
Oh, no argument there. Simply stating what I read a while back, that’s all.
I train at Burwood PCYC and we have a few good lifters including a couple from Ubeckistan (Phonetic pronunciation) the 94 has reportedl done a 180 PC only seen 160, and the 77 (only 19) have seen 120 snatch little lower than power snatch on his power snatch day, and 140 C & J for reps. (only train there once a week, I’m a master, and only been going for 5 weeks)
never seen them OHS, actually only OHS I have seen is one of the guys power snatch his first warm up and then do a OHS. Only once and only one guy
They had a newvbie never snatched before, did OHS for first couple of workouts, then switched to drop snatch and then full snatch.
Guys enjoy them and if they work for you great, but have trained in various Ol gyms in the 70’s and never saw them done then, back in the modern era, same…
blame Dan John for a one off article quoted out of context, and those other people out to change the world…
Giles Greenwood the holder of the current UK records in the +105 class has snatch at 180 and Clean and jerk at 207. He would be considered almost a snatch specialist with the figures being that close.
Also I really doubt the accuracy of Mariusz’s lifts since it is nigh impossible for someone who doesn’t compete Olympic lifting to have such an impressive snatch lift. No matter how “strong” someone is they need exceptional technique to snatch 200kgs.
I read that thing about the chinese lifters and overhead squat from here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dehwang/156353936/in/photostream/
[quote]wushu_1984 wrote:
Con@n wrote:
Tried it out yesterday, talk about a fucking workout. I was wobbling all over the place. I feel like if I could get that lift into high numbers I would probably have a pretty solid core and power transfer movements would be greatly improved.
Have any of you guys tried it?
I did overhead squats yesterday. I do them bi-weekly along with drop snatch to help the snatch.
When I started out with them there was a lot of wobbling and core work to stabilise. But after getting comfortable with the lift and moving bigger weights I started to feel it less in the core and more in the shoulders and legs.[/quote]
I think I’m gonna have to agree with you… I’ve always had doubts with this exercise…
[quote]wushu_1984 wrote:
Giles Greenwood the holder of the current UK records in the +105 class has snatch at 180 and Clean and jerk at 207. He would be considered almost a snatch specialist with the figures being that close.
Also I really doubt the accuracy of Mariusz’s lifts since it is nigh impossible for someone who doesn’t compete Olympic lifting to have such an impressive snatch lift. No matter how “strong” someone is they need exceptional technique to snatch 200kgs.
I read that thing about the chinese lifters and overhead squat from here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dehwang/156353936/in/photostream/ [/quote]
I think you are correct. That number must be down to a translation error.
I do them all the time…
right now they are not really a part of the program im on.
but I fit them in as a mobility/warm up
primarily as a check to see what is tight, what needs work.
usually 95lbs in sets of 10,15,20 135 5x5
and I have done 185 x3 - so nothing crazy-
I also agree with an earlier post - ATG is a must with these…
great way to teach squat form too, moving and activating the glutes,hips
first and forcing the knees out.
kmc
2B, as a beginner weightlifter I am surprised you aren’t doing some variant of OH squat. How do you expect to learn to complete a proper snatch without having trained full snatches or oh squats?
I do them after squats, or when ever I do snatches I do fulls, because this is my weakness at the moment.
In other words do not replace back or front squats with OH, do them AFTER as a finisher, you dont want to comprimise your strength training by pre-exhausting your core. At first do very slow reps (66X or 84X or something like that, depending on whether you suffer most at the bottom or in the hole), and which means you will somewhat pause at the bottom of the movement to emphasise it as a core/balance excercise, rather than a strength excercise.
[quote]brian.m wrote:
thosebananas, you’re thinking of front squats, overhead squat more than they front squat (i dont have a reference but this is what is told)[/quote]
It is one done from the bottom up. (put the bar on stands, get under, grap it and squat up)
It is said to be higher than the front squat, which maybe true for those Chinese lifters who do Squat Jerks… but I still don’t buy it.
I would think that bottom up OH squats would be even more difficult, removing a lot of stretch reflex and rebound out of the hole. I think the truth is that the Chinese are probably not telling the whole truth when they report on their training methods. It seems like there has always been a lot of secrecy behind weight training methods, starting with the Russians and Bulgarians, et al.
Anyone remember the “step up” rumors about the Romanian (maybe Bulgarian) weightlifting teams? Their head coach told the world his guys only did heavy step-ups and never did squats. At the time their lifters were putting up crazy numbers and people started freaking out about why the step up was superior to the squat for leg development… blah blah blah.
Turns out it was all a hoax, and the team did tons of good old squats. I wouldn’t be so quick to believe everything you read. Now, get some video or photo evidence and things change.
Well said Andrew
as for OHS… u don’t really “rebound” out the hole. Doing so will likely cause you to loose balance.
[quote]Neospartan wrote:
Well said Andrew
as for OHS… u don’t really “rebound” out the hole. Doing so will likely cause you to loose balance. [/quote]
I can get a little bump out of the hole if I’m just doing OH squats. Now, if I’m full snatching…no. At that point I’m just trying to make sure the bar is balanced. I suppose it depends on the load of the bar and shoulder stability/flexibility too.
The most I was able to do that day was 225lbs, what are peoples best on this forum?
never attemped a 1rm.
40kg for 5x5… but it isnt hard. Ive snatched 75, and front squat about 120, so its probably in between that somewhere.
never attempted a max single, most i’ve gone up to is 185 (lbs) for 3 reps, (note, maybe because i’m still using light weights, but i definitly find a bottom up overhead squat harder (balance and harsher on my shoulder…seems to take a bit to “set” in place properly) and i get a bit of a bounce at the bottom on regular OHsquats too