Outlaw Country Music

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[quote]trailrash wrote:
Then what the fuck is your question then? You seem to already know all the answers. Or was your question your way of saying that you don’t like him without really saying it. Was it a subtle slam? what? You felt cool because you know a liitle about JR Cash and you felt the need to enlighten everyone an in the meantime take a shot at anyone who does enjoy his music? If you know so much about him then you would know why he is considered an Outlaw.
[/quote]

Although this may be hard for you to believe, I don’t need to post subtle slams about dead celebrities on an internet website dedicated to weight lifting to make myself feel good. I came into a thread dedicated to this kind of music and I’m asking what all the love for him is about.

People don’t just look to him as a great musician- they look to him as a role model. I hear countless people say “well, I don’t really like country music, except Johnny Cash” (which means they’ve never listened to Johnny Cash or country music, but hey). I am making an attempt to understand this.

And no, I don’t know why a drug addict who was brought up singing hymns, bitched the entire time he was in the military and whose main offenses were criminal trespassing to pick flowers, accidentally setting a forest on fire and getting caught with prescription drugs and receiving a suspended sentence is considered an outlaw. Maybe you can explain that for me as well.

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[quote]Dweezil wrote:
trailrash wrote:
Then what the fuck is your question then? You seem to already know all the answers. Or was your question your way of saying that you don’t like him without really saying it. Was it a subtle slam? what? You felt cool because you know a liitle about JR Cash and you felt the need to enlighten everyone an in the meantime take a shot at anyone who does enjoy his music? If you know so much about him then you would know why he is considered an Outlaw.

Although this may be hard for you to believe, I don’t need to post subtle slams about dead celebrities on an internet website dedicated to weight lifting to make myself feel good. I came into a thread dedicated to this kind of music and I’m asking what all the love for him is about.

People don’t just look to him as a great musician- they look to him as a role model. I hear countless people say “well, I don’t really like country music, except Johnny Cash” (which means they’ve never listened to Johnny Cash or country music, but hey). I am making an attempt to understand this.

And no, I don’t know why a drug addict who was brought up singing hymns, bitched the entire time he was in the military and whose main offenses were criminal trespassing to pick flowers, accidentally setting a forest on fire and getting caught with prescription drugs and receiving a suspended sentence is considered an outlaw. Maybe you can explain that for me as well.[/quote]

A lot of people like myself like and respect him because he never hid these problems and tried to express them through his music. Also I think he’s the best ever. I don’t care about someone’s personal life when we’re talking about entertainment.

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[quote]Dweezil wrote:

And no, I don’t know why a drug addict who was brought up singing hymns, bitched the entire time he was in the military and whose main offenses were criminal trespassing to pick flowers, accidentally setting a forest on fire and getting caught with prescription drugs and receiving a suspended sentence is considered an outlaw. Maybe you can explain that for me as well.[/quote]

Malonetd gave a good response to your question about the outlaw label. Go back and read it.

Dustin

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[quote]Dustin wrote:
Dweezil wrote:

And no, I don’t know why a drug addict who was brought up singing hymns, bitched the entire time he was in the military and whose main offenses were criminal trespassing to pick flowers, accidentally setting a forest on fire and getting caught with prescription drugs and receiving a suspended sentence is considered an outlaw. Maybe you can explain that for me as well.

Malonetd gave a good response to your question about the outlaw label. Go back and read it.

Dustin[/quote]

Exactly what I was going to say but maybe he needs to hear it in other words. A friend of mine explains it this way Its about going against the grain in whatever kind of music you’re doing is what its about - its the risk of doing what’s in your heart rather than what’s trendy. It has nothing to do with breaking the law.

Thats why J R Cash was an Outlaw. However if you want to be technical he was a true outlaw because he did break the law and got caught… It may have been minor but it was still against the law.

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[quote]Dweezil wrote:
Can someone in this thread explain to me the constant circlejerk around Johnny Cash?

Yes, most of his earlier work was alright.

But looking at the man, I see nothing admirable. (I’ll probably get flamed for this)

He wore all black. An act to seem menacing.

He never served a prison sentence. Not once. And yet he created some outlaw persona and pretended to commiserate with prisoners while never having been a prisoner. Yeah, because you know, singing hymns growing up with your mother is really the way to outlaw status.

He was an outsider by choice. The ‘big wigs’ never blacklisted him, they embraced him. He had a fucking television show on ABC, for christsake. He hosted Christmas specials on CBS.

He never saw war. He was a technician at an airbase in Germany. He was, by all accounts, a gigantic whiner the entire time he was there.

He lived through the depression. So did a lot of people. Besides the traumatic death of his brother, his childhood seems fairly uneventful.

He was a drug addict who was in love with himself and he created emotional baggage to validate his actions and make himself seem deeper than he was. So… Basically Anna Nicole Smith with a better public perception and some musical talent.

He was a bad husband and a poor father.

I see nothing redeemable about Johnny Cash as a man, and I don’t understand the love for him.[/quote]

You are correct. The man had one or two ok songs out of something like 30 albums that he put out. He was a whinny pussy and totally fake and if he was a teenager today he would be one of those suburban white kids that think they’re hard ass gangstas.

On a side note, Hank III is the greatest thing to ever happen to country music. Or more accurately, Straight To Hell is.

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[quote]Rah-Knee wrote:
Dweezil wrote:
Can someone in this thread explain to me the constant circlejerk around Johnny Cash?

Yes, most of his earlier work was alright.

But looking at the man, I see nothing admirable. (I’ll probably get flamed for this)

He wore all black. An act to seem menacing.

He never served a prison sentence. Not once. And yet he created some outlaw persona and pretended to commiserate with prisoners while never having been a prisoner. Yeah, because you know, singing hymns growing up with your mother is really the way to outlaw status.

He was an outsider by choice. The ‘big wigs’ never blacklisted him, they embraced him. He had a fucking television show on ABC, for christsake. He hosted Christmas specials on CBS.

He never saw war. He was a technician at an airbase in Germany. He was, by all accounts, a gigantic whiner the entire time he was there.

He lived through the depression. So did a lot of people. Besides the traumatic death of his brother, his childhood seems fairly uneventful.

He was a drug addict who was in love with himself and he created emotional baggage to validate his actions and make himself seem deeper than he was. So… Basically Anna Nicole Smith with a better public perception and some musical talent.

He was a bad husband and a poor father.

I see nothing redeemable about Johnny Cash as a man, and I don’t understand the love for him.

You are correct. The man had one or two ok songs out of something like 30 albums that he put out. He was a whinny pussy and totally fake and if he was a teenager today he would be one of those suburban white kids that think they’re hard ass gangstas.

On a side note, Hank III is the greatest thing to ever happen to country music. Or more accurately, Straight To Hell is.

[/quote]

Wow… Both are pretty strong statements…

Straight to Hell was damn good but don’t forget Lovesick Broke and Driftin… That was a damn good album as well. Shelton still didn’t have full control but it was still impressive. Cecil Brown and Mississippi Mud are a couple of my favorites.

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[quote]Rah-Knee wrote:
You are correct. The man had one or two ok songs out of something like 30 albums that he put out. He was a whinny pussy and totally fake and if he was a teenager today he would be one of those suburban white kids that think they’re hard ass gangstas.
[/quote]

Except that he did grow up country. The whole point of outlaw country was that it wasn’t the nashville sound. He did things his own way. Not everyone has to be a David Allen Coe.

On a side note, I went to a No Justice concert a few weeks ago, and a guy named Bobby Dale opened. He sounded pretty good.

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Ijust found out about this guy this past weekend… He has a hell of a voice.

JAKE PENROD | Listen and Stream Free Music, Albums, New Releases, Photos, Videos

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I think a lot of people (including several people in this post) are missing the point on Cash. He was, first and foremost, a MUSICIAN. And his ‘outlaw’ title was related to his MUSIC.

At the time he started making records, he brought a very raw and unique sound to a very cookie-cutter industry. He tackled taboo issues and presented a taboo image. Some of this perspective is lost on us because we can hear other artists with his sound (or at least his influence).

But when he came out, and as he progressed, he showed a willingness to follow HIS OWN heart and ideas, going against convention and taking some pretty big risks. Though it may seem like no big deal NOW, his choosing to sing and record for a bunch of prisoners was, AT THAT TIME and FOR HIS CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIAN AUDIENCE, pretty damn ballsy. He put his entire career on the line for what he believed. That makes him a trailblazer and, in a certain sense, an outlaw.

It’s comparable to a band like Metallica: Back in 1989, they were considered a damn heavy band with a sound that ran counter to much of the formulaic ‘Hair Metal’ stuff on MTV. Then they put out ‘The Black Album’, become the biggest band in the world, completely change (and, unintentionally commercialize) the metal genre. However, over time, they become considered less and less extreme, or heavy, because their ‘outlaw’ sound is being used by every garage band in the country. Now, they’re considered old rich rockers who sue 15 year old websurfers. But back in '89…

The fact that the ‘outlaws’ succeeded and started pulling the mainstream towards them has had the effect of making them appear a bit less ‘outside’ than they originally were.

Being a criminal doesn’t have shit to do with being a part of ‘outlaw country’ music. That’s some bullshit image hype. And much of the hooplah surrounding Cash (at this point) IS bullshit image hype. Which is why people who talk shit about country music still claim to like Cash. What they don’t realize is that he IS the country music they don’t like. They just want to be associated with the image that’s been created around him. He’s now a movie star, a pop star.

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For you outlaw country lovers ,give a listen to some of Ol’ Lonnie Macks music.He plays Blues ,Country and Rock.While he never portrayed himself as an Outlaw,he was put in jail after he got into it with the cops and they shot him.and years ago when Jim morrison was trying to get him to play with the Doors,he had to fly to New York from L.A. to teach old Jim a few lestons for taking his guitar.stevie ray liked his style as well as others.

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[quote]ron33 wrote:
For you outlaw country lovers ,give a listen to some of Ol’ Lonnie Macks music.He plays Blues ,Country and Rock.While he never portrayed himself as an Outlaw,he was put in jail after he got into it with the cops and they shot him.and years ago when Jim morrison was trying to get him to play with the Doors,he had to fly to New York from L.A. to teach old Jim a few lestons for taking his guitar.stevie ray liked his style as well as others.[/quote]

Thanks for the heads up… ill give him a listen…

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Not really country so much as bluegrass, but William Elliot Whitmore rocks too. His Hymns for the Hopeless album is quite good.

1 Like
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I don’t know how I never saw this thread before, but I’m glad to see that some of you are spreading the Hank 3 gospel. The records are great, but you’ve really got to see it live to believe it.

I’ll back Dale Watson and James Hand too…nearly perfect at what they do.

I didn’t see a mention (but I didn’t look to closely) of Wayne “the train” Hancock. he might be my absolute favorite going right now. Check out Tulsa or A-Town Blues.

Lastly, if you’re in southern california and looking for a good way to fill an evening, look up the Vaquetones. They usually play once or twice a month at really cool, chill bars. Country with a slight mexican tinge…lotta fun.

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[quote]Rah-Knee wrote:
Not really country so much as bluegrass, but William Elliot Whitmore rocks too. His Hymns for the Hopeless album is quite good.[/quote]

Hell yes… I listed him in my list on one of the previous pages. He is playing a show with Wayne Hancock in Iowa soon. And it is free… How its free I do not know but thats just not right.

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[quote]xtolgax wrote:
I don’t know how I never saw this thread before, but I’m glad to see that some of you are spreading the Hank 3 gospel. The records are great, but you’ve really got to see it live to believe it.

I’ll back Dale Watson and James Hand too…nearly perfect at what they do.

I didn’t see a mention (but I didn’t look to closely) of Wayne “the train” Hancock. he might be my absolute favorite going right now. Check out Tulsa or A-Town Blues.

Lastly, if you’re in southern california and looking for a good way to fill an evening, look up the Vaquetones. They usually play once or twice a month at really cool, chill bars. Country with a slight mexican tinge…lotta fun.[/quote]

I mentioned Wayne the train a little while back. Tulsa is just bad ass and it is a must have for any music collection.

I agree on the statement about Shelton. You have to see him and the Damn Band live to really appreciate what they do.

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[quote]trailrash wrote:
Dustin wrote:
I’m joining this thread late, but I’d like to point out just how impressed I am with Shooter Jennings. Its obvious he nows how to write and arrange music, which something not seen very often in contemporary music, no matter what genre.

This is probably my favorite song write now, but it receives literally no radio airplay.

Dustin

Sorry man… Not much love here for Shooter as a country artist. I actually tried to like the guy but I just can’t believe in him. He didn’t hit the country scene until after his rock band failed and after his Dad died then all of a sudden he is country.

[/quote]

yeah i feel that about him too. he’s got some good songs and i’ve seen him twice and it’s a good show, but nothing up and above. at the end of the day his rock stuff is where he really shines and what it feels like he really should be doing.

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[quote]swivel wrote:
trailrash wrote:
Dustin wrote:
I’m joining this thread late, but I’d like to point out just how impressed I am with Shooter Jennings. Its obvious he nows how to write and arrange music, which something not seen very often in contemporary music, no matter what genre.

This is probably my favorite song write now, but it receives literally no radio airplay.

Dustin

Sorry man… Not much love here for Shooter as a country artist. I actually tried to like the guy but I just can’t believe in him. He didn’t hit the country scene until after his rock band failed and after his Dad died then all of a sudden he is country.

yeah i feel that about him too. he’s got some good songs and i’ve seen him twice and it’s a good show, but nothing up and above. at the end of the day his rock stuff is where he really shines and what it feels like he really should be doing. [/quote]

Yeah I saw him once and I wasn’t going to go but then I thought what the hell and I went anyways. The best part of the night was seeing Waylon’s Telecaster and the openning band. I just didnt buy into the band, they looked like they came out of LA and they did. The bass player had a hippie shirt and what looked like corderoy (or however the hell you spell it) bell bottoms on. There are a couple of halfway decent songs on his albums but it just seemed a little to Pop for me. I dunno maybe I’m wrong.

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[quote]trailrash wrote:

Yeah I saw him once and I wasn’t going to go but then I thought what the hell and I went anyways. The best part of the night was seeing Waylon’s Telecaster and the openning band. I just didnt buy into the band, they looked like they came out of LA and they did. The bass player had a hippie shirt and what looked like corderoy (or however the hell you spell it) bell bottoms on. There are a couple of halfway decent songs on his albums but it just seemed a little to Pop for me. I dunno maybe I’m wrong.

[/quote]

no you’re right on about the pop element. i went with a couple of girls who aren’t into country at all and they totally dug it. definitely cmt material but good time drinking music. dude that bass player was a fucking fruit. the chick i was with said he was checking me out the whole show.

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Technically, the Outlaw music movement was started in Austin, Texas by Tom Paul Glaser. He wrote “Ladies love outlaws, like babies love stray dogs”. Waylon and Willie followed suit later on. One name that no one has mention is Delbert McClinton. He wrote some some song that are really great. Also check out Gram Parsons “Grievous Angel”. He is credited with starting country rock. He was also in the Byrds and The Flying Burrito Brothers.

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[quote]SinisterMinister wrote:
I think a lot of people (including several people in this post) are missing the point on Cash. He was, first and foremost, a MUSICIAN. And his ‘outlaw’ title was related to his MUSIC. [/quote]

This was the kind of explanation I was looking for. Thank you.