Outlaw Country Music

[quote]RoadWarrior wrote:
Technically, the Outlaw music movement was started in Austin, Texas by Tom Paul Glaser. He wrote “Ladies love outlaws, like babies love stray dogs”. Waylon and Willie followed suit later on. One name that no one has mention is Delbert McClinton. He wrote some some song that are really great. Also check out Gram Parsons “Grievous Angel”. He is credited with starting country rock. He was also in the Byrds and The Flying Burrito Brothers.[/quote]

I love that Glaser song and Gram Parsons is the shit…

[quote]SinisterMinister wrote:
I think a lot of people (including several people in this post) are missing the point on Cash. He was, first and foremost, a MUSICIAN. And his ‘outlaw’ title was related to his MUSIC.

At the time he started making records, he brought a very raw and unique sound to a very cookie-cutter industry. He tackled taboo issues and presented a taboo image. Some of this perspective is lost on us because we can hear other artists with his sound (or at least his influence).

But when he came out, and as he progressed, he showed a willingness to follow HIS OWN heart and ideas, going against convention and taking some pretty big risks. Though it may seem like no big deal NOW, his choosing to sing and record for a bunch of prisoners was, AT THAT TIME and FOR HIS CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIAN AUDIENCE, pretty damn ballsy. He put his entire career on the line for what he believed. That makes him a trailblazer and, in a certain sense, an outlaw.

It’s comparable to a band like Metallica: Back in 1989, they were considered a damn heavy band with a sound that ran counter to much of the formulaic ‘Hair Metal’ stuff on MTV. Then they put out ‘The Black Album’, become the biggest band in the world, completely change (and, unintentionally commercialize) the metal genre. However, over time, they become considered less and less extreme, or heavy, because their ‘outlaw’ sound is being used by every garage band in the country. Now, they’re considered old rich rockers who sue 15 year old websurfers. But back in '89…

The fact that the ‘outlaws’ succeeded and started pulling the mainstream towards them has had the effect of making them appear a bit less ‘outside’ than they originally were.

Being a criminal doesn’t have shit to do with being a part of ‘outlaw country’ music. That’s some bullshit image hype. And much of the hooplah surrounding Cash (at this point) IS bullshit image hype. Which is why people who talk shit about country music still claim to like Cash. What they don’t realize is that he IS the country music they don’t like. They just want to be associated with the image that’s been created around him. He’s now a movie star, a pop star. [/quote]

great post. people forget that musicians, the great ones, just do what they do and it;'s the public and the press who attach these images to them largely after the fact.

even more confusing is today’s celebrities are completely cheating and cutting out all the work, not paying the dues and focusing on pure image. image that in the past was created as a by-product of the work that you did.

paris hilton is the extreme example but really look anywhere on today’s music scene and you see more marketing and image control than actual music product. that’s just ass-backwards.

interesting what you wrote about metallica…last night driving home on the radio i heard and interview with an albert einstein biographer who said einstein was a rebel all his life and always avoided authority.

he made a pretty good case that einstein wasn’t any smarter than his peers in the world of physics but was definitely more creative largely because he didn’t follow the classic academic paths that people like him are supposed to follow. the irony was came when his theories were accepted he became the authority, he became the establishment, and was no longer the rebel. he had a hard time dealing with that.

pretty much the same thing metallica went through. and some fans resent them for it but i think that’s shortsighted. “selling out” is not to be confused with reaching the pinnacle of what you’re trying to do. “selling out” is changing yourself for money. metallica has always stayed true to themselves and simply took it as far as it could go. big difference.

nowadays bands it seems like bands are sold out right from the start.

[quote]Dweezil wrote:
SinisterMinister wrote:
I think a lot of people (including several people in this post) are missing the point on Cash. He was, first and foremost, a MUSICIAN. And his ‘outlaw’ title was related to his MUSIC.

This was the kind of explanation I was looking for. Thank you.[/quote]

No offense dude but don’t these answers basically same the same thing?

“Also, outlaw country music isn’t really about being an outlaw. It was about going against the traditional Nashville/country music of the time. It was about being an outlaw in the industry.”

"Its about going against the grain in whatever kind of music you’re doing is what its about - its the risk of doing what’s in your heart rather than what’s trendy. It has nothing to do with breaking the law. "

So this thread and your posts inspired to go out and get me some Hank III today. I’m not sure why I was putting him off, maybe the whole ‘metal country’ thing just seemed contrived to me, or maybe I just couldn’t expect him to hold up the precedent set by his lineage.

Regardless, it’s really good stuff, very raw, very stripped down, very COUNTRY. Love it. I got Lovesick, Broke, and Driftin’ I listened to a bit of Straight From Hell and it’s got some seriously BADASS musicians on it, I’m sure I’ll get it at some point in the near future. He’s the real deal…

[quote]SinisterMinister wrote:
So this thread and your posts inspired to go out and get me some Hank III today. I’m not sure why I was putting him off, maybe the whole ‘metal country’ thing just seemed contrived to me, or maybe I just couldn’t expect him to hold up the precedent set by his lineage.

Regardless, it’s really good stuff, very raw, very stripped down, very COUNTRY. Love it. I got Lovesick, Broke, and Driftin’ I listened to a bit of Straight From Hell and it’s got some seriously BADASS musicians on it, I’m sure I’ll get it at some point in the near future. He’s the real deal…[/quote]

Good to hear man. The more you listen to Straight to Hell the better it gets. Pay attention to the words he is singing and listen to what the instruments are doing as he says the verse. The way they accent what he is saying just blows me away.

You are right, everyone in the Damn Band are amazing musicians and very cool people. I have been lucky enough to meet them on a few occasions. Joe Buck (his solo show is fukkin killer) is great to watch on the stand up, Andy Gibson tears it up on the steel guitar and dobro.

I have also seen him tear it up on a Telecaster and a banjo with Bob Wayne. Adam is awesome on the fiddle and Munash reminds me of animal back on the drums.

III is without a doubt the real deal. I have seen it first hand whether it be on the stage or afterwards hanging with what he calls the Damn Fans.

You can go to archive.org and seach Hank III and you will find a lot of live bootlegged shows. I have a number of them myself along with some DVD’s that are kick ass. One to look for is the Live in Scotland CD… Its badass…

[quote]

great post. people forget that musicians, the great ones, just do what they do and it;'s the public and the press who attach these images to them largely after the fact.

even more confusing is today’s celebrities are completely cheating and cutting out all the work, not paying the dues and focusing on pure image. image that in the past was created as a by-product of the work that you did.

paris hilton is the extreme example but really look anywhere on today’s music scene and you see more marketing and image control than actual music product. that’s just ass-backwards.

interesting what you wrote about metallica…last night driving home on the radio i heard and interview with an albert einstein biographer who said einstein was a rebel all his life and always avoided authority.

he made a pretty good case that einstein wasn’t any smarter than his peers in the world of physics but was definitely more creative largely because he didn’t follow the classic academic paths that people like him are supposed to follow. the irony was came when his theories were accepted he became the authority, he became the establishment, and was no longer the rebel. he had a hard time dealing with that.

pretty much the same thing metallica went through. and some fans resent them for it but i think that’s shortsighted. “selling out” is not to be confused with reaching the pinnacle of what you’re trying to do. “selling out” is changing yourself for money. metallica has always stayed true to themselves and simply took it as far as it could go. big difference.

nowadays bands it seems like bands are sold out right from the start. [/quote]

Well fukkin said man… Im so tired of the Metallica sold out bullshit.

[quote]SinisterMinister wrote:
So this thread and your posts inspired to go out and get me some Hank III today. I’m not sure why I was putting him off, maybe the whole ‘metal country’ thing just seemed contrived to me, or maybe I just couldn’t expect him to hold up the precedent set by his lineage.

Regardless, it’s really good stuff, very raw, very stripped down, very COUNTRY. Love it. I got Lovesick, Broke, and Driftin’ I listened to a bit of Straight From Hell and it’s got some seriously BADASS musicians on it, I’m sure I’ll get it at some point in the near future. He’s the real deal…[/quote]

Keep in mind you won’t find the metal country (hellbilly) stuff on the cd’s you can buy. If you want those you will have to do some looking.

[quote]trailrash wrote:
SinisterMinister wrote:
So this thread and your posts inspired to go out and get me some Hank III today. I’m not sure why I was putting him off, maybe the whole ‘metal country’ thing just seemed contrived to me, or maybe I just couldn’t expect him to hold up the precedent set by his lineage.

Regardless, it’s really good stuff, very raw, very stripped down, very COUNTRY. Love it. I got Lovesick, Broke, and Driftin’ I listened to a bit of Straight From Hell and it’s got some seriously BADASS musicians on it, I’m sure I’ll get it at some point in the near future. He’s the real deal…

Keep in mind you find the metal country (hellbilly) stuff on the cd’s you can buy. If you want those you will have to do some looking.

[/quote]

that second disc on straight to hell just blows me away. i mean really it takes me out and back man. hank lays his soul out there like nothing else !

i was a III fan already but when i heard that i started throwin’ the “genius” word around and my friends all thought i was nuts because they just couldn’t hear it because to them music is really background music. that disc will go down as one of my favorites of all time.

[quote]swivel wrote:
trailrash wrote:
SinisterMinister wrote:
So this thread and your posts inspired to go out and get me some Hank III today. I’m not sure why I was putting him off, maybe the whole ‘metal country’ thing just seemed contrived to me, or maybe I just couldn’t expect him to hold up the precedent set by his lineage.

Regardless, it’s really good stuff, very raw, very stripped down, very COUNTRY. Love it. I got Lovesick, Broke, and Driftin’ I listened to a bit of Straight From Hell and it’s got some seriously BADASS musicians on it, I’m sure I’ll get it at some point in the near future. He’s the real deal…

Keep in mind you find the metal country (hellbilly) stuff on the cd’s you can buy. If you want those you will have to do some looking.

that second disc on straight to hell just blows me away. i mean really it takes me out and back man. hank lays his soul out there like nothing else !

i was a III fan already but when i heard that i started throwin’ the “genius” word around and my friends all thought i was nuts because they just couldn’t hear it because to them music is really background music. that disc will go down as one of my favorites of all time. [/quote]

Oh yeah… Easily with me too… The song you hear about halfway through is called alone and dying… thats a bad ass song…

Okay, here’s a few that have been mentioned and whom I’d second:
Robert Earl Keen
Chris LeDoux (a real cowboy)
Jerry Jeff Walker (my favorite)
Kris Kristoferson
Johnny Cash
Willie Nelson

. . . and a couple who probably don’t really qualify but who still seem to fit for me:
Todd Snider (definitely a guy who’s rejected corporate music and follows his own muse, so to speak)
John Prine (just brilliant – seems like the older, quasi-responsible uncle for the rest of the outlaw guys)

Lastly, here’s an odd one, but bear with me: early Jimmy Buffett. If you listen to his older stuff, it’s got that western twang and is similar to Jerry Jeff Walker, who was his friend and early mentor. And he definitely has always had a hostile relationship with corporate music (even if he did sell out in the end).

[quote]gspmirkoice wrote:
Okay, here’s a few that have been mentioned and whom I’d second:
Robert Earl Keen
Chris LeDoux (a real cowboy)
Jerry Jeff Walker (my favorite)
Kris Kristoferson
Johnny Cash
Willie Nelson

. . . and a couple who probably don’t really qualify but who still seem to fit for me:
Todd Snider (definitely a guy who’s rejected corporate music and follows his own muse, so to speak)
John Prine (just brilliant – seems like the older, quasi-responsible uncle for the rest of the outlaw guys)

Lastly, here’s an odd one, but bear with me: early Jimmy Buffett. If you listen to his older stuff, it’s got that western twang and is similar to Jerry Jeff Walker, who was his friend and early mentor. And he definitely has always had a hostile relationship with corporate music (even if he did sell out in the end). [/quote]

Ive got an old John Prine and Todd Snider DVD that is just awesome… I also landed a bootlegged Todd Snider CD live at the Beachland Ballroom in Celeveland that is a must have for any collection. Him and Prine are phenomenal writers.

Just want to bump this to see if anyone has any new ones to add.

I very much like country, especially Texas country - I lived most of my life there. Since I moved away from Texas, I spend quite a bit of time listening to Radio Free Texas online.

I like both the classics (Wille Nelson, Jerry Jeff Walker, Ray Wylie Hubbard, Joe Ely, Billy Joe Shaver, George Jones, Merle Haggard etc.) and more recent music like Jimmy Kaiser, Macon Grayson, Roger Creager, Randy Rogers, Kevin Fowler, Pat Green, Jack Ingram, Brandon Jenkins, Charlie Robison, his brother Bruce etc.

As someone once said, country music is about the full range of mature human emotion.

I’m not much of a country music fan, but Ryan Bingham is very talented.

The Drive by Truckers are also great live, although I don’t know if they would be considered outlaw country.

Fuck yeah, Ryan Bingham! Where did you come across him? I do a ton of searching for new artists, and his song ‘South Side of Heaven’ really knocked me on my ass – what a song, what a voice. That being said, I don’t know anyone else who listens to him – even hardcore country fans.

[quote]SinisterMinister wrote:
Fuck yeah, Ryan Bingham! Where did you come across him? I do a ton of searching for new artists, and his song ‘South Side of Heaven’ really knocked me on my ass – what a song, what a voice. That being said, I don’t know anyone else who listens to him – even hardcore country fans.

[/quote]

I listen to a few artists on Lost Highway records and found out about Ryan on their website. His cd, Mescalito, is amazing. He’s in his mid-20’s with a ton of potential. He is apparently pretty good live, so if you’re in Texas go check him out.

I love the title of this thread.

Aside from Johnny Cash, Hank Williams, Patsy Klein and KD Lang, I haven’t listened to much country music. But, a week ago Friday I went to the Boston Derby Dames flat track roller derby bout (Cosmonaughties vs The Wicked Pissahs) and a country band (Slim Jim and the Mad Cows) played the two half times. I liked their music so much I bought a CD. They do a wicked cover of The Immigrant Song.

http://www.slimjimmusic.com/

[quote]Loose Tool wrote:
Aside from Johnny Cash, Hank Williams, Patsy Klein and KD Lang, I haven’t listened to much country music. But, a week ago Friday I went to the Boston Derby Dames flat track roller derby bout (Cosmonaughties vs The Wicked Pissahs) and a country band (Slim Jim and the Mad Cows) played the two half times. I liked their music so much I bought a CD. They do a wicked cover of The Immigrant Song.

http://www.slimjimmusic.com/

[/quote]

johnny cash …check

hank williams…check

patsy cline …check

kd lang …???

[quote]swivel wrote:
Loose Tool wrote:
Aside from Johnny Cash, Hank Williams, Patsy Klein and KD Lang, I haven’t listened to much country music. But, a week ago Friday I went to the Boston Derby Dames flat track roller derby bout (Cosmonaughties vs The Wicked Pissahs) and a country band (Slim Jim and the Mad Cows) played the two half times. I liked their music so much I bought a CD. They do a wicked cover of The Immigrant Song.

http://www.slimjimmusic.com/

johnny cash …check

hank williams…check

patsy cline …check

kd lang …???[/quote]

Yeah, yeah. I knew that would raise an eyebrow. 1989, Absolute Torch & Twang Grammy - Best Female Country Vocal. Before she was a lesbian, she was a female country singer.