I’m trying to cover all my bases and make sure I’ll be lifting for awhile (see: healthy joints) so I reread Ian King’s article.
question: He said benching more than you row is a big no no…
I was wondering if there was a specific ratio/% on how much you can row vs. how much you can bench?
I don’t often bench anymore, but when I did the ration was close to 1:1.
Greek,
Some on now, you seriously believe this? Your not allowed to bench more than you can row? Hell, I might as well just quit powerlifting all together. That is the dumbest thing I’ve heard. If your shoulder joints, and elbow joints are strong, be my guest and bench heavy!
Stupid theories.
Personally I thought he meant volume, not neccesarily weight. I’m a weakling and I can bench more than I can row.
Billy
I also assumed he was referring to volume, not strength. If he was, I totally agree with him. It just makes sense: you’ve got a lot more muscle fiber built for pulling than you do for pushing.
Also, for the past few months, my bench training has been a litlle more stagnant than I would prefer. Then I started losing form on my deads. Then it became hard for me to hold my arch while squatting. When I looked back at my training logs, I realized that ever since the summer, I’ve really been neglecting back work. I was only doing a few sets of rows or pulldowns once or twice a week, which just wasn’t enough to keep up with all of the pressing I have been doing.
For the past two or three weeks, I have significantly increased the volume of back work, doing lots of cable rows, face pulls, and a few pulldowns, and my bench strength is increasing once again, and my squatting is going great. My deads still suck at this point, but they are improving.
Moral of the story: realize that your body wants to maintain homeostasis. You can’t do a lot of pushing and expect to improve without also improving on your pulling. Ratios and so forth are probably a very individual thing, and should be experimented with to find the best results.
We came from monkeys who climb trees,
Ryan
I think he was talking about volume, but come on if I do ME day bench workout say 10 x 3 in a board press with chains, etc. with heavy fucking weight and then just go do 3 x 10 for barbell rows cleary the volume is the same, but the poundage (tension) is very, very different. That’s why I was wondering if there were any ratios or what not. Clearly volume isn’t good enough.
Rick,
1:1? So I gotta ask you how much were you benching:rowing? That’s pretty good.
Landon,
It was just a question. That’s why I asked it. I wanted to see if someone else thought about this, or could row the same amount of weight they benched. Oddly, Rick said yes.
I can row more than I can bench 
I hit my back as hard as I bench, harder actually. Add olys to that which work the back staticly
I believe he meant volume.
Some of the previous posts have missed the point of what King is trying to do with his training. He is trying to correct years of poorly developed programs.
Powerlifters will of course be stronger benching than rowing…isn’t this obvious…your sport doesn’t award merits to this cause. If your sport were to see how much you could row, I bet your training’s focus would be totally different…no?
Another thread said that there was much more muscle mass for pressing than pulling… you must have a sweet back indeed! And, you should definitely give Ian’s program a try… for a long while. It is true that the triceps get bigger than the bis naturally, but have you ever noticed the depth of a gymnasts upper back? Does he have more pressing muscle than pulling? I think not.
For a long while, I was very similar to Cool… I could pull more than press. This was while pressing over 300 pounds… I can still Hammer Row 5 plates on a side for reps… and this is after an extended layoff due to coaching, working and graduate work. I do have a big upper back naturally, but not amazing vertical pulling strength (pull-ups). Now, my pressing has surpassed rowing due to my training emphasis.
This is the beauty of King’s system. Following a big competition, or season, you can use his program to help reverse your previous off-season of sport specific training. You can round out the imbalances. Then, you return to your sport specific performance work.
If you are not an athlete, then if you follow King’s work, or design your own program with ideas similar to what Ian preaches, you will build a more classic physique… a physique more at ease with itself…so to speak… more balanced.
Everyone will have their own peculiarities in terms of build and leverage, but the key is remain fully functional, while maximizing what strengths are needed to excel at your sport, or endeavor. I cannot speak for Ian, as his knowledge of his own training system is obviously unsurpassed. However, I do know that your training focus will form your body… this is a basic premise…simple. Most sports focus on pressing…these athletes have more muscle for that…rowers, many wrestlers, and gymnasts have enormous backs compared to chests…their body has become its function.
If you want a balanced physique, then do not ask questions concerning volume and strength…it is either balanced, or it is not. If your emphasis is to train with a 10 x 3 strength production emphasis on the chest, then balanced would be to do the same for your back… but, I am assuming you want to press a ton without creating disfunction. In this case, you do not seek balance as Ian might advocate, but merely lack of dysfunction… this is different.
Therefore, you must choose what you want, and train accordingly. The correct volume for you, and your particular physique is very tough to judge on a thread.
As I said before, I believe he meant volume… but volume is Reps x Weight, so you may have to do 4 or 5 X 10 in order to get the volume correct.
I personally would advocate after 10 x 3 at 87% pressing, do 5 X 8 at 65% (of your press max) or so rowing…these are roughly the same volumes of work. I do not follow this due to my strength rowing, but if you are weaker there, this is a good place to begin.
My .02
Lil Coach H
CSCS