[quote]pat wrote:
Blessed Mother himself[/quote]
I will presume this was a typo, but I will go with it. Catholics believe Mary was Asexual?
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Blessed Mother himself[/quote]
I will presume this was a typo, but I will go with it. Catholics believe Mary was Asexual?[/quote]
LOL! oops. Yeah typo. Not asexual, chaste. Certainly she was capable of having sex.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Blessed Mother himself[/quote]
I will presume this was a typo, but I will go with it. Catholics believe Mary was Asexual?[/quote]
LOL! oops. Yeah typo. Not asexual, chaste. Certainly she was capable of having sex.[/quote]
LOL!!! Capable, but chose not to, even though the Holy Scripture said that she did.
I just have issues with the visions and sitings of Mary. Why would God change who he sends to talk to his people? God always sent an angel to earth to talk to people in the Holy Scriptures, and now he sends the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost (one and the same just different names). Why would he start to send Mary?
Also you talked about asking a Saint (I cant remember the name you used) to help you find your keys? You mentioned the Saint would help you find your keys. That was also probably just a typo, you meant to say God helped you find your stuff right? I have asked God to help me many times and I find whatever I am looking for. Usually God just focuses me on Him and I calm down and I can think more clearly, and they are where I put them last. I am apart of the Priesthood of believers. I go straight to God with my issues, through the blood of Jesus Christ.
I give Glory to the Living God whose Son lives in my Heart. He is my King, and I follow him when things are good, and when things are not.
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]Legionary wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
I really hope the RCC is making a change towards being Christ like.
[/quote]
If anything the RCC has the most legitimate claim to Christianity among all of the modern denominations. Explain to me how Evangelicalism beats out the institution that has done more in the name of Christ throughout history than the other denominations combined.[/quote]
What is your definition of legitimate claim? How do you calculate doing more in the name of Christ? What is an addition and what is a subtraction.
I never said that the RCC has no claim to Christianity. I just hope they are getting back to the basics. Lutherans have the same claim to Christianity as the Catholics. The Protestants also have a claim. The Evangelicals have a claim to Christ.
This is why I have asked the question, Who is the Church? Is it only the Roman Catholic Church?[/quote]
I feel we are all brothers and sisters in Christ first. What is known as the RCC was the first iteration of Christianity, but I do not believe this to the exclusion of others. I have learned a great deal from my Protestant brothers and sisters. And the knowledge of scripture is something I very much admire about Protestantism. I wish my Catholic brethren would spend more time with the scriptures themselves and I feel is not emphasized enough in our church.
I can say there is a new push within the church to remedy that and I hope we do.
“Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ” - St. Jerome.
What Protestants and Catholics do share is that Christ is the center of our universe. It’s something that some protestants accuse us as not being, but I hope that attitude changes, because it’s not true. Christ is our everything.
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Blessed Mother himself[/quote]
I will presume this was a typo, but I will go with it. Catholics believe Mary was Asexual?[/quote]
LOL! oops. Yeah typo. Not asexual, chaste. Certainly she was capable of having sex.[/quote]
LOL!!! Capable, but chose not to, even though the Holy Scripture said that she did.
I just have issues with the visions and sitings of Mary. Why would God change who he sends to talk to his people? God always sent an angel to earth to talk to people in the Holy Scriptures, and now he sends the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost (one and the same just different names). Why would he start to send Mary?
[/quote]
It’s wise to be skeptical lest somebody make you a fool. So no, I don’t believe everybody who makes that claim is necessarily being honest. I do believe it has happened. But if it’s backed up with events and truths then it may be worth a look. Like I said, Lourdes is one of the biggest and many miracles have been attributed to Lourdes. That and a miraculous spring that wasn’t there previously sure could not have been dug up by a sick nun who was actually quite shy of attention. When there are events and witnesses to those events then it lends itself to credibility. Ultimately, I couldn’t make you believe it, but you cannot argue with results and Lourdes has produced them.
You can also tell by the message. The message of a renewed commitment to Christ, to humility prayer and repentance aren’t bad things.
Why would God send Mary? Beats me. Perhaps it’s because people respond to her so well. One cannot look into the eyes of God, but Mary is not God so perhaps he sends her to approach people. I don’t know why he sent her, but I do believe He has.
St. Anthony? I know it sounds hokey and it would be if I haven’t experienced it many times myself. And of course, nothing happens without the power of God. So whatever something good or miraculous happens, it is by the power of God and nothing else. That’s not to say that he doesn’t use intermediaries. Just like going to the Dr. God is responsible for the healing, but the Dr was his tool.
I would do nothing to discourage you going right to God for everything. That relationship between you and Him is the most important thing, period. I don’t believe there is anything wrong with asking for help and prayer for perfecting that relationship. Any invocation always specifies ‘by the power of God’.
Like I said previously, their assistance is beneficial in that they are already perfected in Christ and their prayers and supplications before the Lord are perfect and perpetual. That’s the benefit you get from Mary and the Saint’s that you cannot get from a living, imperfect person. My view is that I can take all the help I can get. I will accept any prayer or petition to God on my behalf from anyone willing to take the effort.
[quote]
I give Glory to the Living God whose Son lives in my Heart. He is my King, and I follow him when things are good, and when things are not.[/quote]
And there is nothing better than that. Nothing. I very much enjoy your passion for God. It’s a beautiful thing and let no one tell you different.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]Legionary wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
I really hope the RCC is making a change towards being Christ like.
[/quote]
If anything the RCC has the most legitimate claim to Christianity among all of the modern denominations. Explain to me how Evangelicalism beats out the institution that has done more in the name of Christ throughout history than the other denominations combined.[/quote]
What is your definition of legitimate claim? How do you calculate doing more in the name of Christ? What is an addition and what is a subtraction.
I never said that the RCC has no claim to Christianity. I just hope they are getting back to the basics. Lutherans have the same claim to Christianity as the Catholics. The Protestants also have a claim. The Evangelicals have a claim to Christ.
This is why I have asked the question, Who is the Church? Is it only the Roman Catholic Church?[/quote]
I feel we are all brothers and sisters in Christ first. What is known as the RCC was the first iteration of Christianity, but I do not believe this to the exclusion of others. I have learned a great deal from my Protestant brothers and sisters. And the knowledge of scripture is something I very much admire about Protestantism. I wish my Catholic brethren would spend more time with the scriptures themselves and I feel is not emphasized enough in our church.
I can say there is a new push within the church to remedy that and I hope we do.
“Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ” - St. Jerome.
What Protestants and Catholics do share is that Christ is the center of our universe. It’s something that some protestants accuse us as not being, but I hope that attitude changes, because it’s not true. Christ is our everything.[/quote]
I think you are the first Catholic to ever admit this. I like you Pat. I wish the RCC or better yet the Pope would come out and say what you just said. I love reading the Bible. I love studying it. Not under the guise of any philosophy (Calvinism or Armeanism or RCC). I just want to know the Heart of God. What does he want for his children? How much he loves us? He gave the ultimate sacrifice for us. I want to walk with him daily, and can not wait till he calls me home to be with him. I never really thought like this, but I am Home Sick. Heaven is Home for Christians. “To live is Christ, and to die is gain.”
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]Legionary wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
I really hope the RCC is making a change towards being Christ like.
[/quote]
If anything the RCC has the most legitimate claim to Christianity among all of the modern denominations. Explain to me how Evangelicalism beats out the institution that has done more in the name of Christ throughout history than the other denominations combined.[/quote]
What is your definition of legitimate claim? How do you calculate doing more in the name of Christ? What is an addition and what is a subtraction.
I never said that the RCC has no claim to Christianity. I just hope they are getting back to the basics. Lutherans have the same claim to Christianity as the Catholics. The Protestants also have a claim. The Evangelicals have a claim to Christ.
This is why I have asked the question, Who is the Church? Is it only the Roman Catholic Church?[/quote]
I feel we are all brothers and sisters in Christ first. What is known as the RCC was the first iteration of Christianity, but I do not believe this to the exclusion of others. I have learned a great deal from my Protestant brothers and sisters. And the knowledge of scripture is something I very much admire about Protestantism. I wish my Catholic brethren would spend more time with the scriptures themselves and I feel is not emphasized enough in our church.
I can say there is a new push within the church to remedy that and I hope we do.
“Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ” - St. Jerome.
What Protestants and Catholics do share is that Christ is the center of our universe. It’s something that some protestants accuse us as not being, but I hope that attitude changes, because it’s not true. Christ is our everything.[/quote]
Why do you feel closer to Christians than other folks? Have you interacted or spent much time with a Muslim, Jewish, Hindi family? I really experience no difference in character of the people, if anything Jewish folk and Muslims seem to actually live by the rules of their religion, not so sure about Christians, though I do get the typical Muslim kid having his first go at alcohol here at my place of work. At least I see them coming in buzzed, drunk every now and then. Usually kids from Kuwait or Saudi, lots of the time they come out here to scout schools, and it’s ALWAYS Muslim young men, never women.
[quote]Severiano wrote:<<< if anything Jewish folk and Muslims seem to actually live by the rules of their religion, not so sure about Christians, >>>[/quote]Groo brought this up too. Why would anybody care what we say if we think, talk and act no differently than they do.
1st epistle of John 3rd chapter 1st 10 verses. ESV 1 John 3 ESV
[quote]1-See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 2-Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. 3-And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.
4-Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. 5-You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6-No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 7-Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 8-Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 9-No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for Godâ??s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. 10-By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.[/quote]
There is a greater theological context here, but overall, if people can’t tell you’re a Christian, there’s a pretty good chance you’re not. Being supernaturally resurrected from death in sin to new life in Christ Will radically transform a man (or women) from the inside out. People will see it. Many will not like it. Sometimes those closest to you will like it the least. All of this is exactly as Christ Himself told us it would be. We are His ambassadors in the earth. His representatives. He told us that too.
This is why I have zero tolerance for people with the name of Jesus on their lips who grotesquely misrepresent Him with their flagrantly immoral speech and conduct or fatally heretical beliefs. Do and believe what you want. (“you” as a general term denoting the type of people I’m talking about) You are anyway. Just please leave the spotlessly pure Lamb of God out of it. Your judgement will be far greater if you don’t.
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
I think you are the first Catholic to ever admit this. I like you Pat. I wish the RCC or better yet the Pope would come out and say what you just said. I love reading the Bible. I love studying it. Not under the guise of any philosophy (Calvinism or Armeanism or RCC). I just want to know the Heart of God. What does he want for his children? How much he loves us? He gave the ultimate sacrifice for us. I want to walk with him daily, and can not wait till he calls me home to be with him. I never really thought like this, but I am Home Sick. Heaven is Home for Christians. “To live is Christ, and to die is gain.”[/quote]
Well, I don’t think I am ‘admitting’ it so much as acknowledging it, we all have our shortcomings and no church is perfect. But yes, there has not been as much emphasis on the Bible as there should have been, but that is changing, a little to slowly for my taste, but changing nonetheless, the push for learning scripture has been made and increasing. I am not the first to say such a thing. But it’s something I took seriously and I did something about it, which was read the Bible and still do. I too love reading it. I always get more and more out of it every time I read it. No one can claim that a serious reading of the Bible will not impact their lives greatly. Plus, there are some really good and fun stories in there. From a literature point of view, it’s very well done. Very detailed and shows great emotion for something that ancient. I flip back and forth on my favorites to read. I spent a lot of time with Romans. I really am getting in to the Gospel of John quite a bit. It’s so spiritually dense you can read it 1000 times and still miss a great deal of things from it.
Genesis is a particular favorite of mine to. Some of it is just flat funny, but it’s interesting to see how Genesis is woven throughout the entire Bible.
I do greatly enjoy reading it as well.
And I agree with your assessment of reading it as yourself, not as a Catholic, or Armenian, or Calvinist, or whatever. Let the book say what the book says and let it bare into your soul.
[quote]pat wrote:
we all have our shortcomings and no church is perfect. [/quote]
I will agree that not any church is perfect why because it is run by humans. Humans are not perfect so we do make mistakes. The question is do we recognize those mistakes, confess those sins, and then try to move forward with more humility. I will say some are leaps and bounds better than others. I have attended many churches in my days and that would include Catholic churches. I am drawn to the Southern Baptist style of church. Great Bible specific Preaching. Their past is filled with wrong doings, but they are really trying to get back to the basics. The SBC was becoming the Pharasees and legalistic, with the no dancing, no drinking, and no interracial marriages, and many other things. They have seen that is a sin, and they are trying to make amends and move forward for the Glory of the Lord. Many Baptists of all forms get together annually to discuss the Bible. They are starting to work together instead of separated. The SBC actually elected an African American President for the first time. He was elected because he was the best candidate for the position.
I always think back to the Tower of Babel in Genesis. What if man worked together not to make themselves equal to God, but worked together for the Glory of the Lord? Just imagine what we could accomplish with God.
[quote]Severiano wrote:
Why do you feel closer to Christians than other folks? Have you interacted or spent much time with a Muslim, Jewish, Hindi family? I really experience no difference in character of the people, if anything Jewish folk and Muslims seem to actually live by the rules of their religion, not so sure about Christians, though I do get the typical Muslim kid having his first go at alcohol here at my place of work. At least I see them coming in buzzed, drunk every now and then. Usually kids from Kuwait or Saudi, lots of the time they come out here to scout schools, and it’s ALWAYS Muslim young men, never women. [/quote]
As for me, I have spent time with all three of the above. Had a great talk with a Hindu guy who was a ‘work buddy’. He was very open with me about talking about his faith. And he did not mind me asking questions about it and setting me strait on the misconceptions. Like ‘What’s with all those gods’, which he explained they aren’t 'god’s per se, but manifestations of God. He blames translation on the misconceptions people have, he explained that the Hindu faith does not translate well because the words may say “gods” but they don’t mean God, but an expression. He also explained the great admiration for Jesus that Hindu’s have. That’s not to say they are Christ centered, they are not. But they are aware and consider him a great ‘profit’, which actually isn’t the right term in how they view Him, but it’s the closest I could come up with. He did say something interesting. They believe that his 40 days spent in the desert in prayer and meditation is how He was able to manifest his power in the flesh.
I think most people that he just was God in the flesh and could just ‘whammy’ miracles out whenever he wanted. But they (the Hindus, as he explained it) believe he had to ‘work’ for it. It wasn’t just given. A view actually supported by Isaiah.
He was a great guy to talk to. He was very into his faith, and you can’t really get a ‘feel’ for something like that unless you talk to a guy who has a passion for it.
And yes, I did at a different time, have another ‘work buddy’ who was Muslim. We would talk about faith and he was pretty open about it. He was obviously or the more liberal interpretations, but he was pretty normal. What I mean is he didn’t do kooky stuff and carry around prayer rugs, but I can say while I considered him a ‘good guy’, he was a little more disappointing to talk to than the Hindu. He did manage to not hate Jews and hate the shit out of Jews both at the same time. He clearly did not support violence and stuff, but there was ‘less joy’ in his faith. It’s tough to describe what it was, but it was like a more calloused faith expression. He invited me to his mosque for Friday prayer once, shortly after 9/11. I went and did all the washing and stuff. While they did their Arabic stuff I just quietly prayed my little Catholic prayers. I listened to the sermon, which wasn’t a freak show or anything, it was actually quite normal. He was talking how the hijackers hijacked Islam for their own selfish purposes and stuff like that. But I can say I went. I went for my friend, I wanted to show him that I didn’t hate him or was mad at him or his faith. I later got angry at the faith because, like it or not, there is a great deal of Muslim practitioners who do preach violence, intolerance, murder and hate. A disproportionate amount, to many to disregard as a lunatic fringe. They may be lunatics, but there are to many to be a ‘fringe’. I can tall you this, they better reel that shit in one day, because the truth is a lot of those folks just want to be left alone to lead their lives. They don’t want to fight and die, so there is great conflict and turmoil with in Islam. I have since calmed down and let God do the judging. I can see the ‘fruits’ of people’s behavior and I know when I see right and wrong, but it’s not my place to judge them as God judges.
This is my experience talking with the people that I knew.
[quote]Severiano wrote:
Seems like you are very selective with what you have acknowledged as fact throughout the years and always listened to the excuses. As far as the Church turning into a market place, just open your eyes. :)[/quote]
Argument from ignorance and your putting for an assertion without reason, so I’ll gladly deny your assertion as false without reason, for the fact that your assertion is baseless.
Actually he was like us in all ways except sin.
I never said the same way, if you mean exactly like us as in having sin. However, we was 100% man.
What are you talking about here?
What does donations and infallibility have to do with each other?
I only worship one man, Jesus Christ.
[quote]Judas was pissed because the ointment was wasted, but the ointment is intended to be used for gods work, love, not horded and used to stroke greed. You don’t seem to get that lesson.
[/quote]
I don’t think you’ve explained the lesson, though if I’m wrong isn’t it good to give knowledge to the unknowledgeable? So, give me this knowledge that you have about this lesson of Judas.
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
Now I am getting double teamed. I just shared the Good News of Jesus and now getting beat up. I was used to that on the offensive line, and also when I was a center on the basketball team. Now two Roman Catholics going into two different directions, and now I will have to address them both.
This is what I am talking about. I have heard 4 different answers from 4 different Roman Catholics. 2 on this website, and 2 in the real world one included is a priest at the local Roman Catholic Church. Jesus is the head of the Church and I agree with that. We his people are the church. Jesus did not leave the church because the Roman Catholic Church is not the only Church on this planet. The Church is ALL believers in Christ. Could the Roman Catholic Church have left Christ? That is a speculation a lot of people could make based on making the Tradition of RCC equal with the Holy Scriptures. Paul said that the sword of Truth was the Holy Word, so the Traditions of the RCC that deviate from the Holy Scriptures are wrong. Did God leave the Jews, and then just move to the Roman Catholic Church? I would say that he did not. Jesus is still a Jew and the word was first for the Jew, and then for the Gentile. All I am saying is that the Church does not only include the Roman Catholic Church as many Roman Catholics believe. And if you believe that the Roman Catholic Church is the only church, then if “there is no salvation outside of the Church” then you just lied to me on another thread. You stated that the Roman Catholic Church does not decide who is saved, if you believe that the Roman Catholic Church is the only church then “salvation only comes from the Roman Catholic Church.”
Jesus did not leave us orphaned, but you could say that Jesus is in heaven, and if he is Human as you say then he can not be omnipotent. I will say that the Holy Spirit, or as the RCC says, Holy Ghost, is with us here today to guide the church.
Lets get into works. An acceptance of Jesus as your Lord and Savior is not work, unless accepting the most precious gift for all humanity that was freely given is a work or chore then I will accept that. Sacraments on the other hand are works. Do not get me wrong, I am all for the Sacraments such as Baptism, Communion (I call it the Lord’s Supper, and I do not believe in Transubstantiation), Anointing the Sick, and other things are good for a good Christian Life, and all Christians should try to do those things, BUT they are not necessary to be saved or as Jesus said, “Born Again.”
At Pat, I never came up with the idea of worship. Brother Chris called the Pope a Monarch, and through out history of this Planet, all Monarchs demand homage or what some would say, “worship.” The “whore of babylon” comment I have no clue what you are talking about, but if in reference to Revelation, then it should not matter to the RCC because they have stopped looking at the Book of Revelation because it should be removed from the cannon. At least that is what you said to a Jehovas Witness on this site a couple of years ago.
@Pat, I agree that the selection of Pastors (you call them Priest), elders, and deacons are very scriptural. The selection of the Pope and Cardinals (some are archbishops) are not. Pastors and priests are really not selected by the church so to speak. They are called by God to preach the Word or shepherd the flock, you might say oversee the church.
@Pat, it is one thing to Honor Mary, it is another thing to make her something that she is not. I am not against Mary, but why ask a dead person to pray for you? In Revelation is talks about how the Dead in Christ will rise to meet him in the air. Who are the Dead in Christ? I say they are all Christians who are currently dead. If I am correct then Mary is one of those Dead in Christ, so she is dead and her body has decomposed, and her Spirit is waiting for Jesus to return so she and all other Dead in Christ can meet him in the air. I have stated this before, but the RCC will not strike it down. There is a movement inside the RCC to deify Mary. Many Catholics here have said they would reject the RCC if Mary was ever deified. Would you reject the RCC Pat if Mary was deified? A tradition is nothing more than an idea that is talked about for many generations and then it becomes law in the church. The Eternal Virgin Mary was not made tradition until recently. It was talked about for several hundred years, but not made RCC tradition, please forgive me I am doing this from memory, and included in the catechism either in 1992 or the one in 1907 (I think). I have brought this up before, but why is the traditional Nativity scene of both Catholics, Protestants, and Evangelicals show just Joseph, Mary, the Baby Jesus, 3 Wisemen, and Shepherds. If Joseph already had children would they not have also had to travel with their Father (Joseph) to Bethleham for the census as order by Cesar? I know the Nativity Scene is not Biblical, but the Holy Scriptures only talk about Joseph, and Mary traveling to Bethleham for the Census. No Joseph children traveling with them. I guess they were with his ex-wife.
Sorry this was so long, but I had to address 2 individuals.
It is amazing how the RCC picks and chooses what part of the Bible they will use and what parts they will not use. This is where I question the RCC about Tradition over Scripture. I know Brother Christ the Scripture is part of tradition. [/quote]
No, there is only one Church. Where Peter is, the Church.
[quote]Legionary wrote:
Pope Francis shuns grand apartment for two room apartment. I deeply admire this man’s moral conviction and abundant humility. Incredible.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21949118[/quote]
Yes, he exemplifies “Apostolic Simplicity.”
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
This is my opinion but I would think Mary would dislike all the attention she gets from the RCC. She would say, “Why are you asking me to talk to my son. You don’t need me. You can do it yourself. He is right over there. Go talk to him.”[/quote]
Your opinion is wrong (not a big surprise, most of my opinions I have found to be wrong), because plainly from the example of the Wedding of Cana, this is not how she operates. She instigated his first public miracle. She’s also the source of the tradition of the Wedding of Cana.
[quote]Da Man reloaded wrote:
Pat, as usual you have got me deeply thinking. Like dmaddox, I have never understood the Catholic Mary thing.
[/quote]
Basically, if she is good enough for Jesus, she is good enough for me.
Jesus choose her to be the path which he came to the world, and she is the path he choose for us to come to Him. Plain and simple to me. This Jesus only thing is foreign to the Early Church and orthodox Christians.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I would say this even if it were a protestant, but I’d be a bit more impressed if it weren’t on TV. [quote]5-"And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. [/quote] Jesus speaking in Matthew 6:5 The most God honoring acts of righteousness are ones few know about until the judgement. [/quote]
He doesn’t really have control over that being as he is the Bishop of Rome.
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]Severiano wrote:
Humility[/quote]
I have done this myself. I spent a week in Ecuador washing the feet of children, and giving them a new pair of socks and shoes. I did this with an organization called Happy Feet International. The feet that the Pope is kissing are much nicer than the feet I got to wash.
Just imagine wearing rubber boots that are 3-4 sizes too small for a couple of years. The feet are all mangled up. That is what I got to see. It is a sign of humility no doubt, but that is what Christians are suppose to do. I really hope the RCC is making a change towards being Christ like.
[/quote]
We all need to, individually and as institutions.
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
What is your definition of legitimate claim?[/quote]
It is His Church.
History.
[quote]What is an addition and what is a subtraction.
I never said that the RCC has no claim to Christianity. I just hope they are getting back to the basics. Lutherans have the same claim to Christianity as the Catholics. The Protestants also have a claim. The Evangelicals have a claim to Christ.[/quote]
No Lutherans don’t have the same claim as Christianity. They are heretics, and at one time schismatics. Same for Protestants in general (being heretics). And, same for Evangelicals.
The Church is those baptized faithful in union with Peter. No, there can be those that are not formally in communion with the Church, but are materially in communion with the Church (most notably the Orthodox, and at one point the Anglicans). There is no salvation outside the Church.
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
I understand. I have one more thing to add to the discussion of Mary. I was reading Matthew 1:24-25. 24 When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. 25 But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.
How can Mary still be a virgin if Joseph and Mary consummated their marriage after Jesus was born? The act of consummation as we all know is having sex. I am not trying to denounce what Mary did by carrying and giving birth to Jesus. All I am saying is why does it matter to the Gospel that Mary be eternally virgin? I would say that it doesn’t.[/quote]
Where does Scripture say that he consummated the marriage? This is a false assumption, and there is no reason to believe that the marriage was consummated. It is considered blaspheme to say that Joseph took Mary, as her spouse is the Holy Ghost. But, I’m nevertheless interested why people think this since it is completely unprecedented even with Martin Luther, Calvin, &c.