OTS Big Beyond Belief Program

Training Bodybuilding
961

This is on page 23 from DH:

Well there are a few ways to look at this, Zraw.

  1. This is a supergrowth phase and the purpose is to create a rebound effect so I don’t think your idea is off base at all. But the one caveat to take into the big picture is duration of supergrowth. On many programs guys will deload for a week. Call it Blast and Dust or Blast and Cruise or whatever your flavor is. In the end its a down week or two at most.

  2. BBB gives you a true 3 week phase. In my opinion this is too long to just go with what you propose. If we were going a week or two, then I like the idea. But the duration of your “cruise” is longer than others suggest. Also, by virtue of fewer reps and sets, the total volume has been reduced by about 40-60% (without busting out a calculator). Then the rest periods are increased dramatically. This creates a longer and more long term plan for rebound/growth.

So, you idea is solid for sure, but it would be better to back off that significantly ONLY if you were using a week or two for a “cruise”.

Now, I do like the idea of leaving a rep in the hole, at least until the final set. But you will find that I like this approach most of the time anyway. Leaving one rep shy will give the same growth response and better ensure recovery.

Now, one thing I should clarify. Leaving a rep in the hole is best left to guys with a good 6 months expereience at least. They know where that point is and they can generate the intensity that allows them to benefit from coming “close” to failure vs failure.

Here is a study that hits on this idea:

J Appl Physiol 100: 1647-1656, 2006. First published January 12, 2006; doi:10.1152/japplphysiol.01400.2005
8750-7587/06 $8.00
Differential effects of strength training leading to failure versus not to failure on hormonal responses, strength, and muscle power gains
Mikel Izquierdo,1 Javier Iba�±ez,1 Juan Jos�© Gonz�¡lez-Badillo,2 Keijo H�¤kkinen,3 Nicholas A. Ratamess,4 William J. Kraemer,5 Duncan N. French,6 Jesus Eslava,1 Aritz Altadill,1 Xabier Asiain,1 and Esteban M. Gorostiaga1
1Studies, Research and Sport Medicine Center, Government of Navarra and 2Olympic Center of Sport Studies, Spanish Olympic Committee, Madrid, Spain; 3Department of Biology of Physical Activity, University of Jyv�¤skyl�¤, Jyv�¤skyl�¤, Finland, 4Department of Health and Exercise Science, The College of New Jersey, Ewing, New Jersey; 5Department of Kinesiology, Human Performance Laboratory, University of Connecticut, Storrs, Connecticut; and 6Institute of Sport, Northumbria University, Newcastle, United Kingdom
Submitted 4 November 2005 ; accepted in final form 8 January 2006
The purpose of this study was to examine the efficacy of 11 wk of resistance training to failure vs. nonfailure, followed by an identical 5-wk peaking period of maximal strength and power training for both groups as well as to examine the underlying physiological changes in basal circulating anabolic and catabolic hormones. Forty-two physically active men were matched and then randomly assigned to either a training to failure (RF; n = 14), nonfailure (NRF; n = 15), or control groups (C; n = 13). Muscular and power testing and blood draws to determine basal hormonal concentrations were conducted before the initiation of training (T0), after 6 wk of training (T1), after 11 wk of training (T2), and after 16 wk of training (T3). Both RF and NRF resulted in similar gains in 1-repetition maximum bench press (23 and 23%) and parallel squat (22 and 23%), muscle power output of the arm (27 and 28%) and leg extensor muscles (26 and 29%), and maximal number of repetitions performed during parallel squat (66 and 69%). RF group experienced larger gains in the maximal number of repetitions performed during the bench press. The peaking phase (T2 to T3) after NRF resulted in larger gains in muscle power output of the lower extremities, whereas after RF it resulted in larger gains in the maximal number of repetitions performed during the bench press. Strength training leading to RF resulted in reductions in resting concentrations of IGF-1 and elevations in IGFBP-3, whereas NRF resulted in reduced resting cortisol concentrations and an elevation in resting serum total testosterone concentration. This investigation demonstrated a potential beneficial stimulus of NRF for improving strength and power, especially during the subsequent peaking training period, whereas performing sets to failure resulted in greater gains in local muscular endurance. Elevation in IGFBP-3 after resistance training may have been compensatory to accommodate the reduction in IGF-1 to preserve IGF availability.
strength training; repetition to failure; insulin-like growth factor 1; insulin-like growth factor-binding protein-3; testosterone; cortisol

962

I dont know if this has been posted in here before but here is the program for free

http://www.slideshare.net/guest5ff101/big-beyond-belief

963

[quote]willsee wrote:
This is on page 23 from DH:

Well there are a few ways to look at this, Zraw.

  1. This is a supergrowth phase and the purpose is to create a rebound effect so I don’t think your idea is off base at all. But the one caveat to take into the big picture is duration of supergrowth. On many programs guys will deload for a week. Call it Blast and Dust or Blast and Cruise or whatever your flavor is. In the end its a down week or two at most.

  2. BBB gives you a true 3 week phase. In my opinion this is too long to just go with what you propose. If we were going a week or two, then I like the idea. But the duration of your “cruise” is longer than others suggest. Also, by virtue of fewer reps and sets, the total volume has been reduced by about 40-60% (without busting out a calculator). Then the rest periods are increased dramatically. This creates a longer and more long term plan for rebound/growth.

So, you idea is solid for sure, but it would be better to back off that significantly ONLY if you were using a week or two for a “cruise”.

Now, I do like the idea of leaving a rep in the hole, at least until the final set. But you will find that I like this approach most of the time anyway. Leaving one rep shy will give the same growth response and better ensure recovery.

Now, one thing I should clarify. Leaving a rep in the hole is best left to guys with a good 6 months expereience at least. They know where that point is and they can generate the intensity that allows them to benefit from coming “close” to failure vs failure.

Here is a study that hits on this idea:

J Appl Physiol 100: 1647-1656, 2006. First published January 12, 2006; doi:10.1152/japplphysiol.01400.2005
8750-7587/06 $8.00
Differential effects of strength training leading to failure versus not to failure on hormonal responses, strength, and muscle power gains
Mikel Izquierdo,1 Javier Iba�?�±ez,1 Juan Jos�?�© Gonz�?�¡lez-Badillo,2 Keijo H�?�¤kkinen,3 Nicholas A. Ratamess,4 William J. Kraemer,5 Duncan N. French,6 Jesus Eslava,1 Aritz Altadill,1 Xabier Asiain,1 and Esteban M. Gorostiaga1
1Studies, Research and Sport Medicine Center, Government of Navarra and 2Olympic Center of Sport Studies, Spanish Olympic Committee, Madrid, Spain; 3Department of Biology of Physical Activity, University of Jyv�?�¤skyl�?�¤, Jyv�?�¤skyl�?�¤, Finland, 4Department of Health and Exercise Science, The College of New Jersey, Ewing, New Jersey; 5Department of Kinesiology, Human Performance Laboratory, University of Connecticut, Storrs, Connecticut; and 6Institute of Sport, Northumbria University, Newcastle, United Kingdom
Submitted 4 November 2005 ; accepted in final form 8 January 2006
The purpose of this study was to examine the efficacy of 11 wk of resistance training to failure vs. nonfailure, followed by an identical 5-wk peaking period of maximal strength and power training for both groups as well as to examine the underlying physiological changes in basal circulating anabolic and catabolic hormones. Forty-two physically active men were matched and then randomly assigned to either a training to failure (RF; n = 14), nonfailure (NRF; n = 15), or control groups (C; n = 13). Muscular and power testing and blood draws to determine basal hormonal concentrations were conducted before the initiation of training (T0), after 6 wk of training (T1), after 11 wk of training (T2), and after 16 wk of training (T3). Both RF and NRF resulted in similar gains in 1-repetition maximum bench press (23 and 23%) and parallel squat (22 and 23%), muscle power output of the arm (27 and 28%) and leg extensor muscles (26 and 29%), and maximal number of repetitions performed during parallel squat (66 and 69%). RF group experienced larger gains in the maximal number of repetitions performed during the bench press. The peaking phase (T2 to T3) after NRF resulted in larger gains in muscle power output of the lower extremities, whereas after RF it resulted in larger gains in the maximal number of repetitions performed during the bench press. Strength training leading to RF resulted in reductions in resting concentrations of IGF-1 and elevations in IGFBP-3, whereas NRF resulted in reduced resting cortisol concentrations and an elevation in resting serum total testosterone concentration. This investigation demonstrated a potential beneficial stimulus of NRF for improving strength and power, especially during the subsequent peaking training period, whereas performing sets to failure resulted in greater gains in local muscular endurance. Elevation in IGFBP-3 after resistance training may have been compensatory to accommodate the reduction in IGF-1 to preserve IGF availability.
strength training; repetition to failure; insulin-like growth factor 1; insulin-like growth factor-binding protein-3; testosterone; cortisol[/quote]

Interesting study, it seems like the differences weren’t that big in the end. I see the benefits of waiting until the last set to hit failure and wouldn’t mind that myself except in the context of this routine I see 2 problems

  1. The main problem being that your supposed to lower the weight each set so you hit the same amount of reps whereas I think with DH’s example earlier in the thread it was about the same weight but getting like 15,14,13 for example. Theoretically I guess you could just take off a small amount of weight each time because it would still be harder in subsequent sets if you didn’t so maybe like 250x15 240x15 230x15 and leaving a rep in the hold each time. just as an example. In that case though I don’t think it would be a huge deal either way and I can see there being benefits to that

  2. A potential problem I could see is that if your training to failure and got 225x10 last time and get to 225x10 this time and KNOW you could only get 1 more rep, well do you stop right there and not make progress or do you push that last rep so you do make progress? That seems to be a big problem with stopping short of failure, what do you do when you know you won’t do better than last time unless you do go to just getting that last rep? Something I’ve never heard knowledgeably answered honestly

964

Well I pulled a muscle in my lower back right around the pelvis area. a few days ago tossing a fridge into a trailer at work. Now I’m pretty much fucked on any kind of heavy leg work or bent over back exercises until I get it fixed. I’m going to get an appointment set up with a chiropractor and get myself adjusted and have a massage should help out a bit.

Looks like I get cheated out of a week or more of the program depending on what exactly I did to my back. I’m going to try and do some extensions and curls and some chest supported rowing machines to see if it doesn’t aggravate. I can’t even put on my pants without feeling a good amount of pain so I think the best idea is just to avoid back and leg work all together until it goes away instead of trying to tough my way through it and end up with a more serious injury.

965

[quote]Zackgsc wrote:
That looks fine to me, but just personally I would have Hammercurls in there instead of another ez bar day. I’d also toss in another day of Incline instead of one of the dumbbell press days, unless you really like it. I feel that heavy inclines are the best exercise for building a big chest.

Also I’d have a day of CGBP instead of two days of cable pressdowns[/quote]

That is interesting. I was under the impression that you were supposed to pick one or two exercises per bodypart, but you seem to be suggesting that for certain bodyparts three is better?

966

[quote]Roundhead wrote:
Zackgsc wrote:
That looks fine to me, but just personally I would have Hammercurls in there instead of another ez bar day. I’d also toss in another day of Incline instead of one of the dumbbell press days, unless you really like it. I feel that heavy inclines are the best exercise for building a big chest.

Also I’d have a day of CGBP instead of two days of cable pressdowns

That is interesting. I was under the impression that you were supposed to pick one or two exercises per bodypart, but you seem to be suggesting that for certain bodyparts three is better?[/quote]

I’m confused about that as well, I think it was mentioned earlier in the thread but can’t remember when

967

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
MAF14 wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
OK I’m going to give this a shot in 2 weeks, going with the 4-day split. I haven’t had any time to read through the full program but this is what I got:

I’m not sure about doing deads for multiple sets to failure, is that a problem?

Day 1 (13-15 Reps)

Back: 1-arm DB rows
Chest: BB incline
Biceps: Pinwheel Curls
Calves: Seated Calf Raises

Day 2 (13-15 Reps)
Delts: DB Press
Triceps: CBBP
Thighs: 45�??�?�° Leg Press
Abs: Decline Sit-Up (Weighted)

Day 3 (10-12 Reps)
Back: Reverse Grip Pull Downs
Chest: DB Bench
Triceps: Cable extension
Thighs: Lying Leg Press
Delts: Rear Delt Raises
Calves: Lying Leg press ext
Biceps: Ez Curls

Day 4 (8-10 Reps)
Thighs: Squats
Chest: BB Bench
Back: Deadlift
Delts: Military Press
Calves: 45�??�?�° Leg press ext.
Triceps: OH Ext
Biceps: Preacher Curls

How’s it look? It looks like most people are doing a different exercise per muscle for each different rep range?

Day 4 looks like it’s going to kick my ass lol.

Thanks guys

if you’re doing deads i would get straps - i dont know about you, but theres no way i can get past 3 sets w/o them. also why not just do rack pulls instead of deads for back?

Good idea, I’ve never done Rack pulls so now would be a good time to try them I guess. I’m thinking straps would be even more essential in that case since I’d be using heavier weights. I have some at home (I’m at college now) so I’ll have to see if someone can send them over.

I actually took a good amount of the set up from your plan mentioned above somewhere, pretty sure you had deadlifts so I think that’s where I got it.

Modok and DH, any other opinions or suggestions?

By the way when it’s said to go “to failure” thats basically just barely getting that last rep not being able to get another right? Not actually trying for another rep and failing mid-rep I assume.

Thanks again
[/quote]

i thought this looked familiar… btw i think i made the mistake of putting deads on a day other than day 4. i just got back from a week two workout and 4 sets of deads to failure, or close to it, are f***ing brutal. that was the most destroyed i felt from lifting in a while

968

I think that it’s important to toss in something like Hammercurls or Pinwheel curls since they hit the forearms and a different part of the bicep more instead of the conventional easy bar and dumbbell curl. Also for back I try to hit the Upper, Middle, Lats, and Lower. So I do a barbell bent over row for my middle back, reverse grip laterals for my lats and a bit of my lower back, and deadlifts for everything else. As far as for something like chest you can do very well with just inclines and declines.

I think that in a workout like this you want to break it down to 2-3 money exercises that hit each of muscle the best of the body part your trying to train.

969

OK I have taken a few things on board and this is my revised schedule. I hit the third day of the first week today and it felt pretty good.

Monday
Back- Pull ups
Chest- incline smith bench press
Biceps- EZ curls
Calves- leg press machine calf press

Wednesday
Deltoids- military press
Triceps- skull crusher
Thighs- front squat
Abs- weighted decline crunches

Friday
Back- bent over row
Chest- dumbbell bench
Thigh- deadlift
Deltoids- military press
Calves- seated calf raise
Biceps- hammer curls
Triceps- close grip bench press

Saturday
Thighs- front squats
Chest- incline smith machine bench press
Back- chin ups
Deltoids- side raises
Calves- leg press machine calf press
Biceps- EZ bar curls
Triceps- tricep cable pressdown

I put the chins in there because I respond really well to them, but I can’t do more than 5. Do I use assisted chins or do I do the five (or whatever I can do) and then switch to the assisted chins to reach the required reps?

970

[quote]MAF14 wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
MAF14 wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
OK I’m going to give this a shot in 2 weeks, going with the 4-day split. I haven’t had any time to read through the full program but this is what I got:

I’m not sure about doing deads for multiple sets to failure, is that a problem?

Day 1 (13-15 Reps)

Back: 1-arm DB rows
Chest: BB incline
Biceps: Pinwheel Curls
Calves: Seated Calf Raises

Day 2 (13-15 Reps)
Delts: DB Press
Triceps: CBBP
Thighs: 45° Leg Press
Abs: Decline Sit-Up (Weighted)

Day 3 (10-12 Reps)
Back: Reverse Grip Pull Downs
Chest: DB Bench
Triceps: Cable extension
Thighs: Lying Leg Press
Delts: Rear Delt Raises
Calves: Lying Leg press ext
Biceps: Ez Curls

Day 4 (8-10 Reps)
Thighs: Squats
Chest: BB Bench
Back: Deadlift
Delts: Military Press
Calves: 45° Leg press ext.
Triceps: OH Ext
Biceps: Preacher Curls

i thought this looked familiar… btw i think i made the mistake of putting deads on a day other than day 4. i just got back from a week two workout and 4 sets of deads to failure, or close to it, are f***ing brutal. that was the most destroyed i felt from lifting in a while[/quote]

Yea seriously, thats one of the reasons I put Deadlift (and most of my biggest exercises for each muscle group) on day 4. First of all I want to be able to lift heaviest with those exercises but secondly I sure as hell don’t want to be doing 5x15 to near failure for squats and deadlifts in the later weeks of the ramp with shorter rest…holy shit I can’t even imagine :\ lol

[quote]Zackgsc wrote:
I think that it’s important to toss in something like Hammercurls or Pinwheel curls since they hit the forearms and a different part of the bicep more instead of the conventional easy bar and dumbbell curl. Also for back I try to hit the Upper, Middle, Lats, and Lower. So I do a barbell bent over row for my middle back, reverse grip laterals for my lats and a bit of my lower back, and deadlifts for everything else. As far as for something like chest you can do very well with just inclines and declines.

I think that in a workout like this you want to break it down to 2-3 money exercises that hit each of muscle the best of the body part your trying to train.[/quote]

Well that’s pretty much exactly what I’m doing so hopefully that works out well

I’m going to finish 5/3/1 with a deload next week and then jump into this on the 11th or 13th

again any other tips/suggestions about my setup are still appreciated

971

By the way how many hours of sleep are you guys getting/did you get get while on the routine?

972

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
By the way how many hours of sleep are you guys getting/did you get get while on the routine?[/quote]

I get 6…but thats the most i can get…it sucks

973

[quote]Roundhead wrote:
OK I have taken a few things on board and this is my revised schedule. I hit the third day of the first week today and it felt pretty good.

Monday
Back- Pull ups
Chest- incline smith bench press
Biceps- EZ curls
Calves- leg press machine calf press

Wednesday
Deltoids- military press
Triceps- skull crusher
Thighs- front squat
Abs- weighted decline crunches

Friday
Back- bent over row
Chest- dumbbell bench
Thigh- deadlift
Deltoids- military press
Calves- seated calf raise
Biceps- hammer curls
Triceps- close grip bench press

Saturday
Thighs- front squats
Chest- incline smith machine bench press
Back- chin ups
Deltoids- side raises
Calves- leg press machine calf press
Biceps- EZ bar curls
Triceps- tricep cable pressdown

I put the chins in there because I respond really well to them, but I can’t do more than 5. Do I use assisted chins or do I do the five (or whatever I can do) and then switch to the assisted chins to reach the required reps?[/quote]

Good luck doing 5 sets of 15 for front squats
I wouldn’t do pull ups on the 13-15 rep day if you can only do 5…you are supposed to pick exercises you can progress on
I would do CGBP on Monday and Saturday and do something else for Tris on Friday
Will your lower back be ok on Friday? BOR put a nice strain on my lower back

The above is just my opinion on myself…Your body may be different

974

The real issue here is how this all plays out in the macrocycle. Even if you see very few load/rep increases during the ramp, the frequency itself will stimulate anabolism. BBB forces “work” to increase at an alarming rate from week to week. The volume jumps by adding a set are tremendous. And realize that the cumulative fagtigue will be alleviated in the growth phase where you will see your strength gains. The dual factor theory mandates that you look at a macro cycle the same way people usually look at a single training session. We are pushing ourselves for 3 weeks and then allowing the fatigue that masks your gains to dissipate and reveal your improvements. Thats how the supercompensation theory treats a single workout (and thats why programs based on it are less optimal IMO)

We are hitting the muscle with great frequency and creating a constant environment of anabolism. Even training with the same load for a period of 3 weeks will still allow for hypertrophy once you hit SG. After all, “work” is inceased some 33% and 25% respectively in weeks 2 and 3.

Now, dont’ take that as a mandate to not bump the load when you can or get that extra rep (but dont hit failure. CNS drain will screw you on this frequency) when you can. Just don’t force it and certainly dont take my above statements as reason to NOT do more work/loading when you can. “Make haste slowly” as they say.

Best,
DH

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
willsee wrote:
This is on page 23 from DH:

Well there are a few ways to look at this, Zraw.

  1. This is a supergrowth phase and the purpose is to create a rebound effect so I don’t think your idea is off base at all. But the one caveat to take into the big picture is duration of supergrowth. On many programs guys will deload for a week. Call it Blast and Dust or Blast and Cruise or whatever your flavor is. In the end its a down week or two at most.

  2. BBB gives you a true 3 week phase. In my opinion this is too long to just go with what you propose. If we were going a week or two, then I like the idea. But the duration of your “cruise” is longer than others suggest. Also, by virtue of fewer reps and sets, the total volume has been reduced by about 40-60% (without busting out a calculator). Then the rest periods are increased dramatically. This creates a longer and more long term plan for rebound/growth.

So, you idea is solid for sure, but it would be better to back off that significantly ONLY if you were using a week or two for a “cruise”.

Now, I do like the idea of leaving a rep in the hole, at least until the final set. But you will find that I like this approach most of the time anyway. Leaving one rep shy will give the same growth response and better ensure recovery.

Now, one thing I should clarify. Leaving a rep in the hole is best left to guys with a good 6 months expereience at least. They know where that point is and they can generate the intensity that allows them to benefit from coming “close” to failure vs failure.

Here is a study that hits on this idea:

J Appl Physiol 100: 1647-1656, 2006. First published January 12, 2006; doi:10.1152/japplphysiol.01400.2005
8750-7587/06 $8.00
Differential effects of strength training leading to failure versus not to failure on hormonal responses, strength, and muscle power gains
Mikel Izquierdo,1 Javier Iba�??�?�±ez,1 Juan Jos�??�?�© Gonz�??�?�¡lez-Badillo,2 Keijo H�??�?�¤kkinen,3 Nicholas A. Ratamess,4 William J. Kraemer,5 Duncan N. French,6 Jesus Eslava,1 Aritz Altadill,1 Xabier Asiain,1 and Esteban M. Gorostiaga1
1Studies, Research and Sport Medicine Center, Government of Navarra and 2Olympic Center of Sport Studies, Spanish Olympic Committee, Madrid, Spain; 3Department of Biology of Physical Activity, University of Jyv�??�?�¤skyl�??�?�¤, Jyv�??�?�¤skyl�??�?�¤, Finland, 4Department of Health and Exercise Science, The College of New Jersey, Ewing, New Jersey; 5Department of Kinesiology, Human Performance Laboratory, University of Connecticut, Storrs, Connecticut; and 6Institute of Sport, Northumbria University, Newcastle, United Kingdom
Submitted 4 November 2005 ; accepted in final form 8 January 2006
The purpose of this study was to examine the efficacy of 11 wk of resistance training to failure vs. nonfailure, followed by an identical 5-wk peaking period of maximal strength and power training for both groups as well as to examine the underlying physiological changes in basal circulating anabolic and catabolic hormones. Forty-two physically active men were matched and then randomly assigned to either a training to failure (RF; n = 14), nonfailure (NRF; n = 15), or control groups (C; n = 13). Muscular and power testing and blood draws to determine basal hormonal concentrations were conducted before the initiation of training (T0), after 6 wk of training (T1), after 11 wk of training (T2), and after 16 wk of training (T3). Both RF and NRF resulted in similar gains in 1-repetition maximum bench press (23 and 23%) and parallel squat (22 and 23%), muscle power output of the arm (27 and 28%) and leg extensor muscles (26 and 29%), and maximal number of repetitions performed during parallel squat (66 and 69%). RF group experienced larger gains in the maximal number of repetitions performed during the bench press. The peaking phase (T2 to T3) after NRF resulted in larger gains in muscle power output of the lower extremities, whereas after RF it resulted in larger gains in the maximal number of repetitions performed during the bench press. Strength training leading to RF resulted in reductions in resting concentrations of IGF-1 and elevations in IGFBP-3, whereas NRF resulted in reduced resting cortisol concentrations and an elevation in resting serum total testosterone concentration. This investigation demonstrated a potential beneficial stimulus of NRF for improving strength and power, especially during the subsequent peaking training period, whereas performing sets to failure resulted in greater gains in local muscular endurance. Elevation in IGFBP-3 after resistance training may have been compensatory to accommodate the reduction in IGF-1 to preserve IGF availability.
strength training; repetition to failure; insulin-like growth factor 1; insulin-like growth factor-binding protein-3; testosterone; cortisol

Interesting study, it seems like the differences weren’t that big in the end. I see the benefits of waiting until the last set to hit failure and wouldn’t mind that myself except in the context of this routine I see 2 problems

  1. The main problem being that your supposed to lower the weight each set so you hit the same amount of reps whereas I think with DH’s example earlier in the thread it was about the same weight but getting like 15,14,13 for example. Theoretically I guess you could just take off a small amount of weight each time because it would still be harder in subsequent sets if you didn’t so maybe like 250x15 240x15 230x15 and leaving a rep in the hold each time. just as an example. In that case though I don’t think it would be a huge deal either way and I can see there being benefits to that

  2. A potential problem I could see is that if your training to failure and got 225x10 last time and get to 225x10 this time and KNOW you could only get 1 more rep, well do you stop right there and not make progress or do you push that last rep so you do make progress? That seems to be a big problem with stopping short of failure, what do you do when you know you won’t do better than last time unless you do go to just getting that last rep? Something I’ve never heard knowledgeably answered honestly[/quote]

975

My needs increase by 1.5-2 hours for sure

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
By the way how many hours of sleep are you guys getting/did you get get while on the routine?[/quote]

976

A nap would be all the difference after so far into the program. Better than any supplement for sure.

DH

[quote]GramboUSMC88 wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
By the way how many hours of sleep are you guys getting/did you get get while on the routine?

I get 6…but thats the most i can get…it sucks[/quote]

977

i have close grip bench presses on my third day of the 4 day split. i always hear go heavy for cg-bp (i.e. 4-6 reps) to hit “the other” (i forget which head it is that is supposed to only grow with heavy dips and cg-bp’s).
i really want that head to grow. should i put that exercise on day 1 to emphasize it or will the lack of “heaviness” not stimulate any growth?

978

[quote]MAF14 wrote:
i have close grip bench presses on my third day of the 4 day split. i always hear go heavy for cg-bp (i.e. 4-6 reps) to hit “the other” (i forget which head it is that is supposed to only grow with heavy dips and cg-bp’s).
i really want that head to grow. should i put that exercise on day 1 to emphasize it or will the lack of “heaviness” not stimulate any growth?[/quote]

I don’t know - but I got some of my best results in size by doing higher reps ( 13-15 ) for multiple sets.

My advice would be to do them on your high rep AND low rep days with something like pushdowns or extensions in between.

Just my two cents worth-

Good Luck!

Pars

979

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
By the way how many hours of sleep are you guys getting/did you get get while on the routine?[/quote]

Seven or so for me- I also feel like I sleep alot deeper when on the program

Pars

980

[quote]MAF14 wrote:
i have close grip bench presses on my third day of the 4 day split. i always hear go heavy for cg-bp (i.e. 4-6 reps) to hit “the other” (i forget which head it is that is supposed to only grow with heavy dips and cg-bp’s).
i really want that head to grow. should i put that exercise on day 1 to emphasize it or will the lack of “heaviness” not stimulate any growth?[/quote]

Uh, if you mean the long-head, then just going heavier on presses isn’t going to do shit for it unless you have rather good tricep genetics… That’s from personal experience, anyway. You can alter your technique and setup some to include it more, but as far as presses go, In-Humans and SWRGB’s are the only ones that really hit the long head along with the rest (everything else just doesn’t train the long head’s function of bringing the upper arm to the side of the body… Works together with the lats and that’s why you can tear it on lat work).

Scott extensions, PJR’s, and dead stop extensions (lying on bench or floor, bar rests on ground/bench between reps to take out momentum, bring bar down behind the head, explode back up and stop with upper arms at an incline) are the exercises that really brought the tricep sweep/long-head out in my case.

And if you meant a different head… Well. The long head is the one at the inside of the arm, under the arm pit… Without some serious long head development, your tris will be flat in general and your arms will look narrow from the back.

Skullcrushers and such work it to some degree, but are very hard on the elbows… That goes for seated or standing OH extensions, especially.