OTS Big Beyond Belief Program

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
(and besides, how do you know you won’t be able to increase the weight? Planning to do the same weight for the whole ramp sounds like one of those stupid hypothetical things someone comes up with on the internet all the time :wink: Your body doesn’t want to be huge and muscular, you’ll just have to force it. So go ahead and TRY to progress in weight. If you end up having to lift the pink DB’s by the 5th or whatever set, then so be it… Those extra sets are just there to get you somewhat overtrained and thus prep you for the regular training phase)
[/quote]

Yup at the very start of it, i was getting all muddled lol so i PM’d Modok ( did that alot lol)

His response was:

I literally took this to heart and have been progressing even when i don’t hit the reps :stuck_out_tongue:

Why doing same exercises for Day 1,5 and Day 2,6 are so good, if you get 7 or above reps on Day 5,6 then use that weight on Day 1,2 and try get up to 15 reps. Keep on progressing that way, i have found has enabled me to make serious jumps in weight :slight_smile:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Yep, go beat the logbook.

And perhaps eat a little more :slight_smile:
You’ll have to increase your intake every now and again to keep progressing, anyway… May as well eat a little extra during the ramps to get through them.
[/quote]

Ya i do keep adding food lol, i’m buying ALOT of food :stuck_out_tongue:

Tins of Tuna are my best friends these days lol, each one has 25g protein and 10g fat when drained, eat them in between my meals now with some nuts… don’t know how ye do it being bigger do ye just buy a cow and kill it ?

:stuck_out_tongue:

p.s. Thanks for all your time round here, i saw that English guys rant you do spend ALOT of time helping people, hopefully Karma exists eh :slight_smile:

[quote]SmallToBig wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
(and besides, how do you know you won’t be able to increase the weight? Planning to do the same weight for the whole ramp sounds like one of those stupid hypothetical things someone comes up with on the internet all the time :wink: Your body doesn’t want to be huge and muscular, you’ll just have to force it. So go ahead and TRY to progress in weight. If you end up having to lift the pink DB’s by the 5th or whatever set, then so be it… Those extra sets are just there to get you somewhat overtrained and thus prep you for the regular training phase)

Yup at the very start of it, i was getting all muddled lol so i PM’d Modok ( did that alot lol)

His response was:

On week 2 and 3, you are cutting your rest times way down, which will affect the weight you will be able to lift on sets 2-5 significantly. As long as you are progressing on the FIRST set, you are doing great, and that is what you should look at to see if you got stronger. Due to the decreasing rest, you will have to drop weight further on weeks 2 and 3 of the ramp than you did on week 1. If you miss a rep range, drop weight…and try to hit the rep range on the next set. You won’t be perfect all the time. In supergrowth, this will all be a moot point, as you get your rest back and your sets go back to 3. Week 3 ramp is really to tax your system, not set PRs. That is done in supergrowth. Just do your best to hit the rep ranges, and don’t worry about being perfect.

I literally took this to heart and have been progressing even when i don’t hit the reps :stuck_out_tongue:

Why doing same exercises for Day 1,5 and Day 2,6 are so good, if you get 7 or above reps on Day 5,6 then use that weight on Day 1,2 and try get up to 15 reps. Keep on progressing that way, i have found has enabled me to make serious jumps in weight :)[/quote]
Unfortunately, that kind of fast progress will no longer be possible further down the road, but for now, keep at it!

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Unfortunately, that kind of fast progress will no longer be possible further down the road, but for now, keep at it!

[/quote]

You keep saying that :stuck_out_tongue:

8 weeks later still going up !

Dunno how i’ll take being stuck at a weight, not to good with staying still either go back or forward but dont stay still :stuck_out_tongue:

[quote]SmallToBig wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Unfortunately, that kind of fast progress will no longer be possible further down the road, but for now, keep at it!

You keep saying that :stuck_out_tongue:

8 weeks later still going up ![/quote] LOL. That’s 8 weeks out of the next 6-10 years my friend.
Still, of course tings should keep moving up, just not at the kind of rate that they are now (i.e. 5 reps on friday and 15 on monday with the same weight) [quote]

Dunno how i’ll take being stuck at a weight, not to good with staying still either go back or forward but dont stay still :P[/quote]

For Ramp 2 I’m not sure that I could take training legs 6 times a week because of trouble I’ve had with my knees in the past so do you think it would be a good idea to train back 6 times a week instead of legs, this should also help out with shoulder stability what with all the heavy pressing. So what do the big guys think, MODOK, C_C, DH?

Man, this week I was content beating last week’s numbers by a single rep (same weight). Week 3 is a cruel, cruel bitch :slight_smile:

I’ll be done today though. Looking forward to my 3 week “break” before hitting my final ramp.

[quote]Getting Closer wrote:
For Ramp 2 I’m not sure that I could take training legs 6 times a week because of trouble I’ve had with my knees in the past so do you think it would be a good idea to train back 6 times a week instead of legs, this should also help out with shoulder stability what with all the heavy pressing. So what do the big guys think, MODOK, C_C, DH?[/quote]

Why not keep doing Ramp 1 so ?

You “dont” have to do the whole program, each Ramp is independent of the other Ramp 1 so far is my favorite lol, Ramp 2 is SERIOUSLY taxing on you though maybe that might be a good thing come supergrowth.

Of course you could also drop to the 4 day…

[quote]Getting Closer wrote:
For Ramp 2 I’m not sure that I could take training legs 6 times a week because of trouble I’ve had with my knees in the past so do you think it would be a good idea to train back 6 times a week instead of legs, this should also help out with shoulder stability what with all the heavy pressing. So what do the big guys think, MODOK, C_C, DH?[/quote]

You’re training chest, back, calves, and legs 6x a week in ramp 2. I also have some knee problems, but I’ve countered it by limiting my squatting movement. Would something like that work for you?

Also, keep in mind that you’ll probably alternate between quad-dominant movements and hamstring-dominant movements, so you shouldn’t be putting too much stress on your knees if you plan it out carefully.

Here’s what I did for legs in ramp 2. I’ll also include my back pairings because I’ve also had to deal with lower back issues.

1- HS lat pulldown (supinated grip), Angled leg press
2- One-arm DB rows, Swiss ball leg curls
3- Wide-grip rack chins, BB hack squat
4- Chest-supported seated rows, BB Romanian deadlift
5- Wide-grip lat pulldowns, Back squat
6- Bent-over BB rows, Lying leg curls

Basically, if you alternate back width/thickness exercises and quad/hamstring exercises, you should be fine. Only thing I’d change with the above set up is Day 3’s quad exercise. I started with machine hack squats, but those killed my knees. I switched to BB hack squats, and they worked pretty well, but this week I noticed it was at the expense of my lower back. For some reason, I can’t lift the bar up without rounding my lower back (this is even with really light weight…maybe this exercise is more suited for those with longer arms?).

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
LOL. That’s 8 weeks out of the next 6-10 years my friend.

Still, of course things should keep moving up, just not at the kind of rate that they are now (i.e. 5 reps on friday and 15 on monday with the same weight)
[/quote]

Bah, we shall see :stuck_out_tongue:

I have full faith in my body to keep progressing, it’s costing me enough food to feed it so it better return the favor !

[quote]Getting Closer wrote:
For Ramp 2 I’m not sure that I could take training legs 6 times a week because of trouble I’ve had with my knees in the past so do you think it would be a good idea to train back 6 times a week instead of legs, this should also help out with shoulder stability what with all the heavy pressing. So what do the big guys think, MODOK, C_C, DH?[/quote]

IF you have/had knee trouble and want to improve your back some etc, try out one of the 2 custom phases I posted a page or 2 back or so.

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
DH wrote:
Then keep your rest at 2 minutes for the whole ramping phase. It is very intense to both add sets and drop rests. This makes the density increase exponentially. If you only add the sets you are still getting the core of the program.

Week 1 to week 2 is a 33% increase in volume. Week 2 to week 3 is a 25% increase in volume. By keeping the rests at 2 mins, you will still rebound in supergrowth.

Its back to a reduced volume of 3 sets and its a 50% increase in rest. (going from 2mins to 3 mins.)

The concepts and structure are very good on BBB. So IF you MUST, then do the above and hang in there.

Or jump to the 4 day program if you are doing the six. That is where I have decided to start again at.

DH

Speaking of which, what would you guys think about keeping weights exactly the same throughout the ramp? If anything it seems like you would be lucky to do that and as you mentioned not only are you getting the significant increase in volume each week but also if your reducing rest times as laid out your largely increased work density as well, seems like keeping the weight would be fine and a large progression with the reduced rest time and increased volume.

Then you may as well skip the ramp.

Doing a lot of volume with little rest with 135 isn’t going to cause your muscles to grow bigger than a set with 315 or whatever would.

Why don’t you just try to increase the weight on the first set as often as you can and then just decrease it on the other sets as needed? You want to get strong as fast as you can manage (without injury). That’s not going to happen by turning this into a crossfit workout.

[/quote]

Well regardless of if your starting strength is being able to lift 135 or 315 the increase in volume and density will lead to the fatigue/overtraining purpose of the ramp and then you could focus on getting stronger in the SG phase.

That being said, I was thinking of the overall sets and wasn’t thinking about how you’re going to be fresh the first set anyway every week so you could certainly add weight at least on that set and go from there on subsequent ones.

[quote]SmallToBig wrote:

His response was:

On week 2 and 3, you are cutting your rest times way down, which will affect the weight you will be able to lift on sets 2-5 significantly. As long as you are progressing on the FIRST set, you are doing great, and that is what you should look at to see if you got stronger. Due to the decreasing rest, you will have to drop weight further on weeks 2 and 3 of the ramp than you did on week 1. If you miss a rep range, drop weight…and try to hit the rep range on the next set. You won’t be perfect all the time. In supergrowth, this will all be a moot point, as you get your rest back and your sets go back to 3. Week 3 ramp is really to tax your system, not set PRs. That is done in supergrowth. Just do your best to hit the rep ranges, and don’t worry about being perfect.

I literally took this to heart and have been progressing even when i don’t hit the reps :stuck_out_tongue:

Why doing same exercises for Day 1,5 and Day 2,6 are so good, if you get 7 or above reps on Day 5,6 then use that weight on Day 1,2 and try get up to 15 reps. Keep on progressing that way, i have found has enabled me to make serious jumps in weight :)[/quote]

Yea MODOK’s PM pretty much sums up what I was just thinking.

STB, unfortunately people who aren’t complete beginners won’t be able to change a 7rm into 15 reps within a few days or even weeks for the most part.

[quote]jo3 wrote:
Man, this week I was content beating last week’s numbers by a single rep (same weight). Week 3 is a cruel, cruel bitch :slight_smile:

I’ll be done today though. Looking forward to my 3 week “break” before hitting my final ramp.[/quote]

Jeez man CONGRATS lol, your doing better than I, i nearly bitched out on the 2nd week :stuck_out_tongue:

You sticking with the training phase 2 or you going to use Ramp 1’s training phase ??

[quote]SmallToBig wrote:
jo3 wrote:
Man, this week I was content beating last week’s numbers by a single rep (same weight). Week 3 is a cruel, cruel bitch :slight_smile:

I’ll be done today though. Looking forward to my 3 week “break” before hitting my final ramp.

Jeez man CONGRATS lol, your doing better than I, i nearly bitched out on the 2nd week :stuck_out_tongue:

You sticking with the training phase 2 or you going to use Ramp 1’s training phase ??[/quote]

I’m sticking with the program. I might even run through the 18 weeks again before deciding which ramp/training phase I want to stick with. The 2nd run would have to be on the 4x/week plan though since I’ll be considerably busier with school.

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Yea MODOK’s PM pretty much sums up what I was just thinking.

STB, unfortunately people who aren’t complete beginners won’t be able to change a 7rm into 15 reps within a few days or even weeks for the most part.
[/quote]

Well at least try then :stuck_out_tongue:

Never know what your capable of till you try it. this program really REALLY takes you to the limit of what you can do, everyone who has done it says that. Modok said what you put in you get out, so more you try move more weight even if you fail, come supergrowth you will get it.

Also told me (lol) don’t tinker/mess/fuck with the program if at all possible, just run it as is… it’s pretty much 100% perfect changing it will have a knock on effect somewhere else.

:slight_smile:

Don’t really want to go to the 4 day. C_C I might do one of your modified versions at some point but i would like to try the whole program first if I can manage it. Jo3 the exercises you chose seem like they might be ok apart from I dont have a leg press as I train in my garage most of the time. Although my knees do ache a bit already on ramp 1.

How about if I were to do Ramp 1 again but make it so that I train back 6 times a week? I know i’m messing with it a bit but i really dont want to have serious problems with my knees again and I don’t want to start having problems with my shoulders.

So i’m thinking I could do Ramp 1 as is, Ramp 2 the same as Ramp 1 but training back 6 days a week, then Ramp 3 as it is then maybe I’d give Ramp 2 a go if I feel my knees will hold out. What do you think?

Arrrgh its a tough decision!!!

[quote]Getting Closer wrote:
So i’m thinking I could do Ramp 1 as is, Ramp 2 the same as Ramp 1 but training back 6 days a week, then Ramp 3 as it is then maybe I’d give Ramp 2 a go if I feel my knees will hold out. What do you think?

Arrrgh its a tough decision!!![/quote]

How did you do legs during ramp 1? Did you do what most people here did and do 2 exercises on each leg day (one for your quads and another for your hamstrings)? That’s what I ended up doing, so this ramp really wasn’t much different because I just put the exercises on different days rather than doing two on the same day.

If that wasn’t the case, then I guess it’s a moot point.

Do your knees hurt when you deadlift? I ask because BB hack squats have a very similar motion to deadlifts. I noticed that they really don’t do much to my knees like regular back squats do. Might want to take that into account.

I suppose you could just go to ramp 1, but I highly encourage you to just stick with ramp 2. Who knows… maybe you’ll end up responding the best to the ramp 2 set up. That’s what this program’s all about (figuring out what works).

just hit 335x6 on oly squats, 20 lb PR from last week, that’s the heaviest weight I’ve used on this ever
and bench went from 225x5, 205x5, 185x8 last week to ---->230x5, 205x8, 205x7 this week

:slight_smile:

[quote]trav123456 wrote:
just hit 335x6 on oly squats, 20 lb PR from last week, that’s the heaviest weight I’ve used on this ever
and bench went from 225x5, 205x5, 185x8 last week to ---->230x5, 205x8, 205x7 this week

:)[/quote]

Great progress man, What week was the 230x5,205x8,205x7 for you?