Orals Only Due to Skin Condition

Pharma
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[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
gaudrtyl wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:

I really don’t expect you’ve been skin-grafted 100% of your body. Thus there should be places that are not grafted that should be less sensitive than other places. IM injection with an insulin needle can be done in very, very many possible locations. I do expect it could be done. I think you are assuming too soon it cannot be done without problem.

That said, though, now that you’ve posted the above: It’s hard to reconcile with your previous statements of having competed in bodybuilding and how it’s hard to tell you’ve had the grafts unless within a few feet of you.
[/quote]
Like I said I appoligize if I was extra sensitive about things. The skin graphing was done not long after it happend. I was seven when it happend and 8 when the skin graphing was actually finished. It has healed quite well but i still look wrikly and loose. When I completed when I was in my early 20’s through dieting and dehydrating I still looked a little wrinkly which was my downfall on stage because it looked like i was holding water or some bodyfat.

Presently I keep myself only about 10 lbs or so from where I would compete which if you were 5 feet infront of me you’d see slight wrinkling on my shoulders chest and back and even deeper wrinkling on my legs.The leaner and tigher I stay the less wrinkles I have. But lately I have been getting over the whole idea that I don’t look normal and the more size I put on the more my confidence goes up. I’m 190lbs and have a visable six pack with only a little body fat in the love handle area. I wanna see what I look like at 200 - 210lbs.

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Has anyone else had any experience with andriol (oral tes) sounds interesting execpt for only 20% thing BONEZ217 mentioned earler.

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Not at all, even if you had. Though so far as I can tell, actually you didn’t make anything appear to be from me that wasn’t, so in fact absolutely nothing at all. No worries.

Glad to see you are developing more confidence and probably a more accurate view of what others see. I would think that when you nail your condition, the judges will know it and credit you properly.

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[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
For an intramuscular injection of say 1 mL or more, which is the usual size for a steroid cycle, you need a muscle that has enough bulk – which need not be much, but cannot be tiny – so that there is some muscle around the point being injected into, which is 1/2" deep.

Forearms seem a poor choice.

As a GUESS I would expect there is musculature in the back area of the neck that would be suitable but that would require specialized knowledge to be able to say. It is not a location anyone uses in bodybuilding and there would be all kinds of wrong places. So let’s rule that out too.

Hands, feet, face, and head, no. Shins, not really.

Aaargh, besides lower back, that leaves us with calves!

Now actually there are quite a few bodybuilders that do inject into the calves. But most that have tried doing that, hate it.

The lower back, IM, would probably be best described the way I did the neck.

So that would leave is with sub-Q (sub-cutaneous, the way insulin users do it) injections. Just beneath the skin.

These are really non-fussy for location.

Calves or lower back could be good choices.

An issue is injection volume. Dr Shippen, a physician who does a great deal of work in hormone replacement therapy, has found sub-Q to work quite well for steroid injections but he uses quite small volumes. I don’t know what the upper limit is for comfort (it’s not a safety issue in any case.) Perhaps 1/2 mL. Something like 1/4 mL is absolutely certainly not a problem.

Let’s as a guess say you start at 1/4 mL and work your way up and for sake of discussion say that 0.40 is what you decide is all that you like. And you don’t care to inject more than once per day, let’s say.

That would work out to 2.8 mL per week. With a 250 mg/mL preparation that would be 700 mg/week. A very solid amount.

As your doctors were willing to advise you on whether anabolic steroid use would aggravate your skin condition, perhaps they may oblige in giving a tip on subcutaneous injection. If not, it’s something that very many bodybuilders have taught themselves, though ordinarily with water-based compounds. (No difference in injection techniques, except that oil based will inherently be a slower injection, perhaps taking 15 or 30 seconds.)

Hitting a major nerve is not an issue with this method.
[/quote]

Thanks that sounds very tempting. One questions though. Even though the needles are so small, doesn’t that mean that i’d be injection everyday into the same spots for a 12 week cycle and wouldn’t I have problems with injecting too many times into the same spot(absese ?? or scar tissue) Orals still sound like the better choice for now. I don’t mind the idea of injecting once or twice a week but every day??? ouch.

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You indeed would not want to inject into the same spot every day.

But even a half inch away is a different spot.

So even if you used calves-only, between both calves, there’s a ton of spots.

I don’t see how you could reach your lower back yourself, so if not having someone to help you that is probably ruled out, but if the obliques are a suitable area with regards to being less sensitive skin there, that would add yet further area.

Additionally, the insulin needle is so very fine that you might well find that intramuscular is doable after all in areas you had ruled out. Perhaps thighs or biceps, for example. Then you could use 1 mL at a time.

On every day: Lots of bodybuilders do.

Those of us that use low mg/mL preparations such as some trenbolone acetate preparations, or to a lesser degree testosterone propionate solutions, may inject not only every day but for example three or four times a day, if favoring 1 mL injections.

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Oh, and the three or four times is not counting extra injections for things such as GH, insulin, Melanotan II, or what-have-you. So the daily total can be still more, actually.

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I’m liking the sounds of this so far. I’ll just have to find someone who can help me out in actually doing with me a few times so I get it down pat before I trust myself with it. lol. I have heard of water based test but I know for a fact around my area they are in high demand supposivley (no one can actually tell me why) so they run quite a bit more expensive than oil based. My connection also told me that he rarely comes across water based test that is legit around here because it’s easier to make and fake than oil base. Are all types of test available in water based??

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No, only unesterified testosterone.

The oil based preparations are testosterone with an additional part, an “ester,” added to it which is slowly removed by the body. This causes the testosterone to be released slowly.

When testosterone itself in oil is injected, the duration of action is only a matter of hours.

So that is not done. However, if it is injected in water and the particle size is sufficiently large (still quite small) then there is a duration of action of several days due to it taking time for the testosterone particles to dissolve.

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I thought there were problems with sub-q injections of oil based steroids? Calves are really painful for me personally to do intramuscular injections,but perhaps, calves, traps and upper arms would work. As for orals, I would bounce back and forth between dbol/anavar and winstrol/anadrol. I’ve never heard anything good about andriol. You could probably make a sublingual preperation with testosterone base that would be better than andriol.

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As I explained the problems with sub-Q for oil-based injections are volume-related.

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Ok guys this is just not going to work. I got hooked up this morning with a sub-Q 1/4 ml shot of test E. My body who also gets my candy for me is diabetic and he offered to show me how on the spot. He said he’s been doing these kind of shots on him for years. Lets just say i’m carrying around a bump on my calf the size of a soft ball. Within 20 minutes of the injection it just started to grow and boom. Off to the hospital with me. Again they said what are you doing dumb dumb? It says on the medical chart no shots anywhere but in veins. Lets just say my doctor wasn’t impressed. The needles were new nothing was contaminated and this was his personal supply that he’s been using for 10 weeks now, just a new bottle. This is human grade stuff too not Vet grade or UGL grade. I appreciate your help everyone, anyother ideas?? The orals keep looking better and better!!

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I asked the doctor about water based and he said "I’m not supporting the fact you want to use steroids and I’m not going to get them or inject them for you but he did say that if I’m going to do it anyways he did say that orals on short cycles would be best and he offered to perscribe something that would help protect my liver and some Novladex to help with the possible estrogen problem. I love my doctor!!!

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[quote]gaudrtyl wrote:
Ok guys this is just not going to work. I got hooked up this morning with a sub-Q 1/4 ml shot of test E. My body who also gets my candy for me is diabetic and he offered to show me how on the spot. He said he’s been doing these kind of shots on him for years. Lets just say i’m carrying around a bump on my calf the size of a soft ball. Within 20 minutes of the injection it just started to grow and boom. Off to the hospital with me. Again they said what are you doing dumb dumb? It says on the medical chart no shots anywhere but in veins. Lets just say my doctor wasn’t impressed. The needles were new nothing was contaminated and this was his personal supply that he’s been using for 10 weeks now, just a new bottle. This is human grade stuff too not Vet grade or UGL grade. I appreciate your help everyone, anyother ideas?? The orals keep looking better and better!![/quote]

You did sub-q into your calf? I wouldn’t think that there is enough fat on your calf for that to work out well. If you were willing to put the needle into your calf, why not just go IM?

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call me a glutten for pain. lol. either way this just somewhat confirms that injections may not workout. The same thing happened that happens everywhere else I tried to inject IM. The swelling. I can’t even pass this off as a calf implant.lol. oh well. I have two more choices left IM in the calf or sub Q in the lower back. I don’t have much fat on my anywere i’m pretty lean right now.

I’m kinda thinking back to orals for one reason only now. My doctor kinda gave me shit and offered to do what he can to help me to protect against health problems that orals could cause as long as I was honest and took his advice on liver and estrogen protection. But that still brings me back to my origional questions. One oral or two? If two what do I add together to make a reasonable cycle.

Your first bit of advice when you mentioned dbol 40mg and anavar 40 to 50mg has really been the only help so far. I thank you for that. That might end up being what I try. We’ll see if anyone else has anything else to say for a little bit longer.

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sounds intreging. How do you figure out the doses if you were to make tne hard candies? And would they go bad after a while? Say I wanted to do 250 mg (as an example) per week. Any idea how that would be figured out? Does anyone know how the absorption rate would be on this. I’d be on board if I get some more info on this. This is the best I’ve heard yet!

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Absorption is very limited this way when not complexed sublingually. There is a reason no bodybuilders do it this way. Not even male hormone replacement therapy, which has far lower goals for T levels, does so. (At least not routinely; there was some buzz about doing it with cyclodextrin complexation say 10 or more years ago but it seems to me it went nowhere or not far at all. And without any complexation, I don’t think it ever saw serious clinical use if any.)

And not for not having been looked into pharmaceutically: it has been. It’s for having been tested and not working well.

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This thread is getting interesting. Sublingual Test…hmmm…never thought of that actually.

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[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
That’s odd, because I saw some research which seemed to conclude that sublingual absorbtion of test propionate significantly raised blood plasma levels. I’ll see if I can find it.

BBB[/quote]

“Significantly” is a term, in scientific articles, referring to whether the amount was enough to break out of the error bars, so to speak.

Not as to whether it is large or useful, or most especially not whether it is large compared to what is required for bodybuilding purposes.