Economics of Steroids...

Pharma
1

Natural Supplementation vs Steroids

I’ve been considering my first cycle, and throughout my research in designing the best cycle for me I decided to crunch some numbers.

Ive decided to go all oral. Debating the logic behind this is not important, nor really the specifics of the cycle I outline here (its pretty basic, and not by any means final). So no badmouthing the cycle, but if you have some constructive suggestions they are of course very welcome. The point of this post is simply to present some the numbers I calculated.

anyway, I’m going to shut up now and just break down the cost of my normal natural supplementation bulking cycle vs an all oral steroid bulk. 11 week bulk.

       -Natural-

[Supplement] [$/day] [Totals/cycle]

BCAA 1.9------- 147
Fish-oil 0.38------ 30
Creatine 0.52------ 40
Energy 0.42------ 32
ZMA 0.3------- 23
Neuro Support 0.9------- 70
PWO Protein 1.4------- 108

         $5.8/day      $450 Total



       -Unnatural-

[Supplement] [$/mg][Totals]

Dianabol 40mg/day Wks:1-6 0.05/mg – 90
Winstrol 50mg/day Wks:3-8 0.05/mg – 125
Anavar 40mg/day Wks:6-8 0.20/mg – 200
Clomid 40mg/day Wks:9-11 0.03/mg – 30
PWO Protein – 108

                           Total $453

$450 Natural vs $453 Unnatural.

Granted, its certainly not an exact calculation. As I wouldn’t necessarily drop all the supplements from the natural only bulk, but then the natural only bulk total is the price for that exact amount of supps needed for a bulk of that duration (ie serving for serving), while the unnatural total is exactly how much I’d spend to buy everything beforehand (as such the natural total is underestimated quite a bit, and the unnatural is a bit also, they’d most likely even out).

I was pleasantly surprized. When I first considered steroids I was turned off by the high price, but looking at it now I’m spending the same on natural products and reaching only a third of the gains. (As you may have guessed my decisions are based on a need for anonymity, fear of legal action, and lack of a trusted local source. As such the price was driven higher than what may be otherwise.)

PS- Sure the natural supps are in the high price range, but they are quality, or so you all say heh. And the steroids are paper products (again, dont bother arguing if thats the best choice).Im just sharing the numbers i came up with

2

You forgot to include liver care such as liv-52.

I am not sure what the point of this was.

I can run a cycle of test E for half of what you have listed.

Common sense should come into play here at some point.

3

You are foolish… Clomid will not even be effective at such a low dose. Also, combining winstrol with d-bol, your just asking for liver problems.

4

Why have you decided to go all oral?

Don’t forget to add another $500/month or so for food on top of that.

What is Energy? - the metabolic cost of an activity in ATP dollars?

Yes, BB is expensive.

5

Of course a cycle of test E would be half the price. But i dont have any at my disposal.

a fool I may be… Dont really know why I wrote Clomid to tell you the truth, I guess because In my head I knew that I’ll probably end up on a combination of Clomid and Nolvadex. But swap Nolvadex in for Clomid and its fine.

winstrol + dbol = liver problems?

Why all oral? not really important. They are a perfectly viable option. And they fit my needs far better than injections.

of course I have to add price for food. I was comparing cost for things only pertaining to either option.

energy SUPPLEMENT. IE caffeine, ginkgo etc.

no shit its expensive

6

thats one of the stupidest things ive ever heard. all oral cycle? haha…liver damage anyone? another thing, u can get all of these orals, if they are even real, but u cant score some test? and as for economics: test-e 2 vials 5000mg for $180 is what it goes for, and nolva for $40 per 1000mg, so, $220 for a ten week cycle of test is alot cheaper, more effective, less toxic, and will yield better more easily to keep gains.

7

thanks for the unpropitious remarks

enjoy your cycle

8

[quote]Hugearms69 wrote:
thats one of the stupidest things ive ever heard. all oral cycle? haha…[/quote]

ok, dbol and winstrol together being rather risky, sure. agreed, even for just the 3 weeks.

but an all oral cycle is laughable? prove it.

Granted oral is not as effective as injections, but like I said, injections are not an option. I should have expected such an anti oral bias here.

9

[quote]SwampMonster wrote:
Hugearms69 wrote:
thats one of the stupidest things ive ever heard. all oral cycle? haha…

ok, dbol and winstrol together being rather risky, sure. agreed, even for just the 3 weeks.

but an all oral cycle is laughable? prove it.

Granted oral is not as effective as injections, but like I said, injections are not an option. I should have expected such an anti oral bias here. [/quote]

I’m gonna have to piggyback on Shamus’s previous comment and state that most of us here are not anti-oral. Jenna Jameson, Briana Banks, Miko Lee, those are all very good choices. Hope this helps.

10

WTF, orals are not as effective as injections? They are, but are way more harmful, especially if you stack them the way you are. These homies are tryin’ to help ya make an informed decision and you slap them in the face. Like Rain said, what was the point of this post if you’re gonna be a dick. Fuck it, do the “all-oral” and you’ll understand what the hell they were saying. I sense you are afraid of a shot! Where, in this great big world, can you get a shitload of orals but zero injectibles. I’m calling BULLSHIT!

[quote]SwampMonster wrote:
Hugearms69 wrote:
thats one of the stupidest things ive ever heard. all oral cycle? haha…

ok, dbol and winstrol together being rather risky, sure. agreed, even for just the 3 weeks.

but an all oral cycle is laughable? prove it.

Granted oral is not as effective as injections, but like I said, injections are not an option. I should have expected such an anti oral bias here. [/quote]

11

LMMFAO!!! I love Kylie Ireland, just watch her hand-mouth combinations! She is the consumate professional. What were we talking about? Oh, oral juice, yeah, he’s fuckin’ his liver, and the nutz will more than likely shrink like a snail in salt.

[quote]H-Train wrote:
SwampMonster wrote:
Hugearms69 wrote:
thats one of the stupidest things ive ever heard. all oral cycle? haha…

ok, dbol and winstrol together being rather risky, sure. agreed, even for just the 3 weeks.

but an all oral cycle is laughable? prove it.

Granted oral is not as effective as injections, but like I said, injections are not an option. I should have expected such an anti oral bias here.

I’m gonna have to piggyback on Shamus’s previous comment and state that most of us here are not anti-oral. Jenna Jameson, Briana Banks, Miko Lee, those are all very good choices. Hope this helps.[/quote]

12

If ya wanna optimize the juice you’re considering, take all the supps you listed also. Can you really put a price on health???

13

Interesting post. I have often wondered about the price difference.

However I must say that your cycle poses serious risk to your liver. You only have one body, cut the dose (a lot), get some more clomid and search for some test-E.

Everyone here knows about the temptation of steroids. You have to have the discipline to do it correctly, or they get a bad name.

14

why don’t you just do 4 2 week cycles with the stuff, chances are you will retain more gains and recovery is a breeze.

oh ya, your liver will thank you.

15

[quote]Future2501 wrote:
Interesting post. I have often wondered about the price difference.

However I must say that your cycle poses serious risk to your liver. You only have one body, cut the dose (a lot), get some more clomid and search for some test-E.

Everyone here knows about the temptation of steroids. You have to have the discipline to do it correctly, or they get a bad name.[/quote]

hey hey hey. somebody who caught the point. I apologize that some of you missed the point. As I said in the original post, and since, this is not what I plan to do. I posted this as an example, just of something I could have done and the price breakdown. It was surprizing to me.

As for the cycle, I hadnt really considered the example cycle I presented as off the wall crazy as you all (i did realize it was certainly on the risky side of orals, which are on the risky side themselves). I just came home from work yesterday and wanted to crunch the numbers to see the difference in price between my options, I pulled that oral only cycle from a respectable forum from a respectable poster (my mistake).

I’m choosing all orals for a few reasons. No I’m certainly not scared of needles, I stab people all day. But I don’t have access to injectable steroids. All the people I lift with are doctors/nurses/or friends of, and I certainly cant go asking around, I’d ruin my life (kind of odd in a way, I’m surrounded by people with access, but that makes them more unattainable).

So online ordering is my only option. Sure I can order injectables there too, but then it comes into me fearing the government. Injectables are far easier to catch coming through customs, while paper products are not. I really hadn’t considered steroids so seriously until I came across there existence (a little late mind you, but I haven’t always regularly kept up with steroid message boards).

Maybe its an unwarranted fear, but I’m not willing to take the risk at this point, maybe later I’ll feel more comfortable about it. But then, I am not far off from my ultimate goal, maybe 20 pounds (I’m 5’10, 165, 5% body fat, legitimately tested, been cutting for a beech trip with the lady friend) Most likely my first cycle will be turinabol only, and a gradual increase in dosage, just to really see how I take all of this.

So my choice in all orals will never change. And something that angers me is the way that so many consider it such an inferior way of juicing, that it leads to inferior results, and is pointless. And therefore theres a pretty big lack of information on it (or so I’ve found reading through board after board, If you know of a treasure trove of oral only info, PLEASE point me to it). Orals meet my needs very well.

16

[quote]SwampMonster wrote:

but an all oral cycle is laughable? prove it.

Granted oral is not as effective as injections, but like I said, injections are not an option. I should have expected such an anti oral bias here. [/quote]

We don’t need to prove it. It’s already been proven by thousands of users that oral only cycles are a bad idea for numerous reasons.

Injections not an option? Why? Can’t get them, afraid of needles, mom and dad, what?

Test is cheap as shit. A 20cc bottle will last 12 weeks, and it only costs a hundred bucks.

To go along with your original post, yes steroids are FAR cheaper than legal supplements.

Monopoly

17

[quote]Monopoly19 wrote:

Injections not an option? Why? Can’t get them, afraid of needles, mom and dad, what?

[/quote]

can’t get them locally, and too afraid of having them mailed. I could care less about needles.

I plan on a relatively safe oral only cycle. Turinabol only, 7 weeks, increasing from 30mg/day to 50-60mg/day.

To tell you the truth, I don’t want to grow that much, as I said, another 20 pounds total and I’ll be happy as a clam. Right now I am rather disproportionate as far as size/strength, due to genetics not poor training. I come from a long line of Irish laborers with massive legs and backs but wimpy everything else. My dad benched shit, my grandpa benched shit, I bench shit. For instance, I dealift 250% of my LBM, squat nearly 200%, calf raise 450% but max out in bench not much over 100%. Believe me I’ve done every sort of chest specialization routine there is. My chest looks almost tolerable, lagging for sure, but there is no strength there whatsoever. So my real goal here is to put on a bit of mass all around, but specifically chest, and specifically add strength to my chest. Maybe anavar would be better for the strength aspect? anavar only? so pricey though. I was planning to do a second cycle of OT+anavar a good while after the OT only.

18

[quote]SwampMonster wrote:
To tell you the truth, I don’t want to grow that much, as I said, another 20 pounds total and I’ll be happy as a clam. Right now I am rather disproportionate as far as size/strength, due to genetics not poor training. I come from a long line of Irish laborers with massive legs and backs but wimpy everything else. My dad benched shit, my grandpa benched shit, I bench shit. For instance, I dealift 250% of my LBM, squat nearly 200%, calf raise 450% but max out in bench not much over 100%. Believe me I’ve done every sort of chest specialization routine there is. My chest looks almost tolerable, lagging for sure, but there is no strength there whatsoever. [/quote]

then you need to build up strength in your shoulder stabilizers and upper back muscles, that’s what supports a big bench. chances are it is not your chest or genetics holding you back.

also once you get above 40mg/d with tbol, you may experience back pumps.

19

[quote]SwampMonster wrote:

hey hey hey. somebody who caught the point. I apologize that some of you missed the point. As I said in the original post, and since, this is not what I plan to do. I posted this as an example, just of something I could have done and the price breakdown. It was surprizing to me.
[/quote]

My problem with this little exercise is that you used a bad example.

What point is doing a cost analysis if you are analyzing chemicals you are not going to take, or that makes no sense in a practical setting?

That’s like comparing gas and and propane, when you need diesel.

20

[quote]rainjack wrote:

My problem with this little exercise is that you used a bad example.
[/quote]

I apologize. I’m a good ways off from starting my first cycle. I wont be able to concentrate on lifting during the summer as much as I’d want to for my first run. Like I said, I pulled the cycle off another board. Its probably on the pricier side of oral stacks as far as what I’m considering, and seeing how this pricey stack compared to my natural supplements was just another thing that has added to my decision to run a cycle in the fall. I only meant to share that revelation. Obviously with steroids you get more bang for your buck, but I hadn’t realized they’d be cheaper all together for a given period of time lifting. Id considered them cheaper per pound of muscle gained but not cheaper per month of lifting etc.

I am by no means set on which cycle I’ll choose. I’m considering TBol the most at the moment, and I am leaning towards a cycle of a single oral to start out with just to see how I react, and do a second cycle later on of a stack.

And thanks ubl0 for the heads up on the back pumps. I hadnt heard of them being too much of an issue with Tbol, certainly not compared to Dbol. But anyhow thats why I’m going to ease into the cycle my first time, to see how my body reacts so I can adjust accordingly. And as for your recommendation about building up my bench. Well, Im really concentrating on shoulder stabilizers in my program right now, and I have noticed a slight benefit compared to how much attention I payed them before. I’m still 5 months away from my cycle, so I’ll have quite a bit of time to make more natural gains. But the fact still remains that I can row a good extra plate on each end more than I can bench. We’ll see if I can even them out a bit more.