[quote]browndisaster wrote:
brick your posts are consistently great. The more and more I learn about what matters in bbing, the more I agree with what you say.[/quote]
Thanks. 
[quote]schanz_05 wrote:
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Why should one care about carbohydrates “post workout”?
Insulin does not matter to building new muscle tissue.
Any protein one eats will elicit an insulin response.
One only needs a few grams of protein more than maintenance levels to build skeletal muscle.
One can only build a limited amount of skeletal muscle at a time; especially without hormonal therapy.
The biggest factor to building new muscle is energy intake and hormone balance; too little energy intake and hormone imbalance will not allow optimal muscle growth.
Eat lots of fat and protein and lift heavy weights.
…and don’t ask bodybuilders for their opinions about nutrition because they are only guessing.[/quote]
I REALLY don’t like to mention my credentials these days–an undergraduate in nutrition and a masters in nutrition and exercise physiology (sports nutrition focus) with a mentor that co-founded the most influental sports nutrition organization in the world–but it applies here, in an unexpected way.
With all my studies (and a thesis dealing with carb intake of endurace athletes), I learned VERY LITTLE regarding the actual practice of and counseling on sports and bodybuilding nutrition.
So I turn to and advise everyone else to turn to what every successful, or at least decent, bodybuilder has ever done to build muscle because it is boring for me and most to sift through nerdy studies that are unenjoyable to read and which can’t be correctly critiqued by most! And it’s pretty much the same shit across the board, regardless of what studies say or what information is pushed from point A to point B!
Here it is for mass gaining (contest prep is another topic):
- Protein set at 1 to 1.5 grams per pound.
- Moderate carbs and fats.
- Four to six days a week in the gym.
- Cardio a few times a week for heart health and to keep bodyfat in check.
- Two to four exercises per bodypart.
- 6 to 15 reps (sometimes even higher for legs or some isolation exercises).
- Isolation, machine, and basic free weight lifts thrown into the mix.
That’s it! I haven’t seen anyone else do anything different: all spins and styles and a million reinventions of the wheel! We can sift through geeky studies, reason, analyze, and talk about warm and fuzzy stuff like “insulin spikes” (if I hear this one more time…), nutrient timing (OK, this one isn’t so bad), and god knows what else. Yes, some BB’ers, believe, say, and do silly shit. But most of us don’t have time or inclination to reinvent the wheel or figure out everything out ourselves.
[/quote]
I understand what you’re getting at, but what is the point of having a supplement and nutrition forum to discuss this stuff then? I mean your post just revealed everything anyone ever needs to know, right?
My point is, what is so bad about debating ways to optimize everything you’re doing inside and outside of the gym?
[/quote]
Uh, actually you’re right. I think I fall into my old (sometimes bad) habit of getting a little too emotional when posting and just firing words onto the screen. 
A forum should be used to help each other out and of course that involves discussion of fine tuning. I just sometimes think, “Well if we’re not gonna go by what good bodybuilders have done and are doing, what examples are we gonna turn to?”
Heh, it’s hard to know what to listen to and what not to. On one hand we want to pay attention to those who’s physiques, strength and accomplishments we admire, on the other hand we want to take as scientific an approach as possible. There isn’t always a dichotomy between the two, but there is sometimes.
To be honest I’m not always impressed with the physiques or writings of some of the guys who write for T-muscle, but am I only going to pay attention to guys like C.T, Dave Tate or John Meadows? We need our own filters and the use of common sense. Sometimes our common sense or our filters are a little bit off, and we need somebody to tell us to stfu and listen, or stfu and put more work in and that’s hard ass pill to swallow being that most guys in our way of life/hobby have ego’s that match their ideal physiques. I can only imagine the amount of hours, days, months, years these guys have put into their progress. I’m just thankful there are some honest guys around who love this shit and are willing to share concepts and ideas to fine tune an already solid foundation that these guys have lived.
Brickhead, I sure as hell hope you have some ideas to share with your background. I would love to pick the brain of someone like yourself.
We may not always see eye to eye, but we all share a similar love for lifting and challenging, competing with ourselves and others. Sometimes we lose sight of what’s important and we get a little disillusioned, or the whole thing becomes convoluted when we plateau. It’s exactly at this time when we need to refocus and take a serious look at what we can and should do differently.
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Why should one care about carbohydrates “post workout”?
Insulin does not matter to building new muscle tissue.
Any protein one eats will elicit an insulin response.
One only needs a few grams of protein more than maintenance levels to build skeletal muscle.
One can only build a limited amount of skeletal muscle at a time; especially without hormonal therapy.
The biggest factor to building new muscle is energy intake and hormone balance; too little energy intake and hormone imbalance will not allow optimal muscle growth.
Eat lots of fat and protein and lift heavy weights.
…and don’t ask bodybuilders for their opinions about nutrition because they are only guessing.[/quote]
I REALLY don’t like to mention my credentials these days–an undergraduate in nutrition and a masters in nutrition and exercise physiology (sports nutrition focus) with a mentor that co-founded the most influental sports nutrition organization in the world–but it applies here, in an unexpected way.
With all my studies (and a thesis dealing with carb intake of endurace athletes), I learned VERY LITTLE regarding the actual practice of and counseling on sports and bodybuilding nutrition.
So I turn to and advise everyone else to turn to what every successful, or at least decent, bodybuilder has ever done to build muscle because it is boring for me and most to sift through nerdy studies that are unenjoyable to read and which can’t be correctly critiqued by most! And it’s pretty much the same shit across the board, regardless of what studies say or what information is pushed from point A to point B!
Here it is for mass gaining (contest prep is another topic):
- Protein set at 1 to 1.5 grams per pound.
- Moderate carbs and fats.
- Four to six days a week in the gym.
- Cardio a few times a week for heart health and to keep bodyfat in check.
- Two to four exercises per bodypart.
- 6 to 15 reps (sometimes even higher for legs or some isolation exercises).
- Isolation, machine, and basic free weight lifts thrown into the mix.
That’s it! I haven’t seen anyone else do anything different: all spins and styles and a million reinventions of the wheel! We can sift through geeky studies, reason, analyze, and talk about warm and fuzzy stuff like “insulin spikes” (if I hear this one more time…), nutrient timing (OK, this one isn’t so bad), and god knows what else. Yes, some BB’ers, believe, say, and do silly shit. But most of us don’t have time or inclination to reinvent the wheel or figure out everything out ourselves.
[/quote]
shhh…you forgot to mention steroids.
[quote]schanz_05 wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Insulin does not matter to building new muscle tissue.
[/quote]
Really? Extreme example, but ask a type 1 diabetic how easy it is for them to build muscle before they started taking exogenous insulin. Non insulin mediated AA and glucose uptake only happens from 4-5 hours after activity. Protein synthesis isn’t completed by the end of that period.
Insulin absolutely has an affect on building muscle tissue. Hell, an article on here by Meadows and another guy provided research that shows that even with non insulin mediated uptake of AA and glucose provided from working out, there was enhanced protein synthesis when combined with an insulin spike from carbohydrates. Insulin could arguably be the most anabolic hormone in the body and to say it does not matter to building new muscle tissue is just a bit silly IMO. Good discussions on here lately btw![/quote]
Kind of like saying oxygen matters to performance. Too little oxygen and we would die anyway; likewise with insulin.
Insulin is not the limiting factor to muscle growth otherwise you could just inject it and growz HUGE!
The limiting factor is how much protein synthesis is allowed to happen within the muscle tissue over a given time. There are certain other hormones in play here and they ALL matter in relation to each other.
…but this doesn’t mean low carbohydrate is the way to go. I see no reason to go low carb other than during fat loss phases.
I completely disagree with “Eat lots of fat and protein and lift heavy weights.” Past your protein intake, splitting the calories between carbs and fat would at the very least improve performance in the gym.
[quote]browndisaster wrote:
…but this doesn’t mean low carbohydrate is the way to go. I see no reason to go low carb other than during fat loss phases.
I completely disagree with “Eat lots of fat and protein and lift heavy weights.” Past your protein intake, splitting the calories between carbs and fat would at the very least improve performance in the gym.[/quote]
Keeping insulin low helps one maintain weight. For this reason low carbohydrate dieting is useful for people who compete in weight dependent/performance based sports.
Having glycogen in muscle cells does not mean one need consume carbohydrate as the majority macronutrient in ones diet. Protein can support this, too. And remember, glycogen is only necessary during anaerobic activity. Most people can store up to 2000 kcal at any given time which is more than enough to sustain hours of intense activity (>60% V02 Max).
If carbohydrate is only to make energy then that can be met by eating fat which can sustain all activity.
There is much research necessary in the field of low carbohydrate and performance nutrition.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]browndisaster wrote:
…but this doesn’t mean low carbohydrate is the way to go. I see no reason to go low carb other than during fat loss phases.
I completely disagree with “Eat lots of fat and protein and lift heavy weights.” Past your protein intake, splitting the calories between carbs and fat would at the very least improve performance in the gym.[/quote]
Keeping insulin low helps one maintain weight. For this reason low carbohydrate dieting is useful for people who compete in weight dependent/performance based sports.
Having glycogen in muscle cells does not mean one need consume carbohydrate as the majority macronutrient in ones diet. Protein can support this, too. And remember, glycogen is only necessary during anaerobic activity. Most people can store up to 2000 kcal at any given time which is more than enough to sustain hours of intense activity (>60% V02 Max).
If carbohydrate is only to make energy then that can be met by eating fat which can sustain all activity.
There is much research necessary in the field of low carbohydrate and performance nutrition.[/quote]
I believe Jeff Volek has done research on VLCDs and athletic performance (maybe in cyclists, I forget) showing that performance once adapted did not suffer.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]browndisaster wrote:
…but this doesn’t mean low carbohydrate is the way to go. I see no reason to go low carb other than during fat loss phases.
I completely disagree with “Eat lots of fat and protein and lift heavy weights.” Past your protein intake, splitting the calories between carbs and fat would at the very least improve performance in the gym.[/quote]
Keeping insulin low helps one maintain weight. For this reason low carbohydrate dieting is useful for people who compete in weight dependent/performance based sports.
Having glycogen in muscle cells does not mean one need consume carbohydrate as the majority macronutrient in ones diet. Protein can support this, too. And remember, glycogen is only necessary during anaerobic activity. Most people can store up to 2000 kcal at any given time which is more than enough to sustain hours of intense activity (>60% V02 Max).
If carbohydrate is only to make energy then that can be met by eating fat which can sustain all activity.
There is much research necessary in the field of low carbohydrate and performance nutrition.[/quote]
Bullshit
They give Football players IV for a reason. Anyone who has ever had a cramp and needed to continue maximum performance knows the importance of sugar.
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]browndisaster wrote:
…but this doesn’t mean low carbohydrate is the way to go. I see no reason to go low carb other than during fat loss phases.
I completely disagree with “Eat lots of fat and protein and lift heavy weights.” Past your protein intake, splitting the calories between carbs and fat would at the very least improve performance in the gym.[/quote]
Keeping insulin low helps one maintain weight. For this reason low carbohydrate dieting is useful for people who compete in weight dependent/performance based sports.
Having glycogen in muscle cells does not mean one need consume carbohydrate as the majority macronutrient in ones diet. Protein can support this, too. And remember, glycogen is only necessary during anaerobic activity. Most people can store up to 2000 kcal at any given time which is more than enough to sustain hours of intense activity (>60% V02 Max).
If carbohydrate is only to make energy then that can be met by eating fat which can sustain all activity.
There is much research necessary in the field of low carbohydrate and performance nutrition.[/quote]
I believe Jeff Volek has done research on VLCDs and athletic performance (maybe in cyclists, I forget) showing that performance once adapted did not suffer.
[/quote]
So he observed performance can be sustained but can it be improved?
My own anecdotal evidence suggests it can but I want to know boundaries because I hate guesswork.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]browndisaster wrote:
…but this doesn’t mean low carbohydrate is the way to go. I see no reason to go low carb other than during fat loss phases.
I completely disagree with “Eat lots of fat and protein and lift heavy weights.” Past your protein intake, splitting the calories between carbs and fat would at the very least improve performance in the gym.[/quote]
Keeping insulin low helps one maintain weight. For this reason low carbohydrate dieting is useful for people who compete in weight dependent/performance based sports.
Having glycogen in muscle cells does not mean one need consume carbohydrate as the majority macronutrient in ones diet. Protein can support this, too. And remember, glycogen is only necessary during anaerobic activity. Most people can store up to 2000 kcal at any given time which is more than enough to sustain hours of intense activity (>60% V02 Max).
If carbohydrate is only to make energy then that can be met by eating fat which can sustain all activity.
There is much research necessary in the field of low carbohydrate and performance nutrition.[/quote]
Bullshit
They give Football players IV for a reason. Anyone who has ever had a cramp and needed to continue maximum performance knows the importance of sugar. [/quote]
Given that these people probably rely heavily on Gatorade for energy, no wonder they cramp and need IV.
Take carbohydrate away from them for a given period of time and they will not be dependent on dietary carbohydrates at all. Once adapted to a ketogenic diet fat becomes the primary fuel source conserving glycogen for only the most intense of bouts (i.e., the tpyical 8 sec play of football with plenty of rest in between downs).
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]browndisaster wrote:
…but this doesn’t mean low carbohydrate is the way to go. I see no reason to go low carb other than during fat loss phases.
I completely disagree with “Eat lots of fat and protein and lift heavy weights.” Past your protein intake, splitting the calories between carbs and fat would at the very least improve performance in the gym.[/quote]
Keeping insulin low helps one maintain weight. For this reason low carbohydrate dieting is useful for people who compete in weight dependent/performance based sports.
Having glycogen in muscle cells does not mean one need consume carbohydrate as the majority macronutrient in ones diet. Protein can support this, too. And remember, glycogen is only necessary during anaerobic activity. Most people can store up to 2000 kcal at any given time which is more than enough to sustain hours of intense activity (>60% V02 Max).
If carbohydrate is only to make energy then that can be met by eating fat which can sustain all activity.
There is much research necessary in the field of low carbohydrate and performance nutrition.[/quote]
Bullshit
They give Football players IV for a reason. Anyone who has ever had a cramp and needed to continue maximum performance knows the importance of sugar. [/quote]
Given that these people probably rely heavily on Gatorade for energy, no wonder they cramp and need IV.
Take carbohydrate away from them for a given period of time and they will not be dependent on dietary carbohydrates at all. Once adapted to a ketogenic diet fat becomes the primary fuel source conserving glycogen for only the most intense of bouts (i.e., the tpyical 8 sec play of football with plenty of rest in between downs).[/quote]
Like who?
All forms of sprinting, running are intense bouts, your muscles have to embrace for 60%+ of your body weight every foot strike. Your body will adapt to no/vl carbs by performing less intensely. Anything you do less intensely requires less muscle building.
Anyone performing and training with vl/zero carbs will be second tier to someone training just as intensely with higher closer to optimum carb levels.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]browndisaster wrote:
…but this doesn’t mean low carbohydrate is the way to go. I see no reason to go low carb other than during fat loss phases.
I completely disagree with “Eat lots of fat and protein and lift heavy weights.” Past your protein intake, splitting the calories between carbs and fat would at the very least improve performance in the gym.[/quote]
Keeping insulin low helps one maintain weight. For this reason low carbohydrate dieting is useful for people who compete in weight dependent/performance based sports.
Having glycogen in muscle cells does not mean one need consume carbohydrate as the majority macronutrient in ones diet. Protein can support this, too. And remember, glycogen is only necessary during anaerobic activity. Most people can store up to 2000 kcal at any given time which is more than enough to sustain hours of intense activity (>60% V02 Max).
If carbohydrate is only to make energy then that can be met by eating fat which can sustain all activity.
There is much research necessary in the field of low carbohydrate and performance nutrition.[/quote]
Bullshit
They give Football players IV for a reason. Anyone who has ever had a cramp and needed to continue maximum performance knows the importance of sugar. [/quote]
Given that these people probably rely heavily on Gatorade for energy, no wonder they cramp and need IV.
Take carbohydrate away from them for a given period of time and they will not be dependent on dietary carbohydrates at all. Once adapted to a ketogenic diet fat becomes the primary fuel source conserving glycogen for only the most intense of bouts (i.e., the tpyical 8 sec play of football with plenty of rest in between downs).[/quote]
Like who?
All forms of sprinting, running are intense bouts, your muscles have to embrace for 60%+ of your body weight every foot strike. Your body will adapt to no/vl carbs by performing less intensely. Anything you do less intensely requires less muscle building.
Anyone performing and training with vl/zero carbs will be second tier to someone training just as intensely with higher closer to optimum carb levels. [/quote]
Which is why I want to see more research on it because I don’t believe that statement is true.
So I’m the OP and just realized that this thread really came to life…This is good. Perhaps we can come to a consensus on what we must do post workout to maximize protein synthesis in order to facilitate new muscle growth. Since the study I initially posted was intended to stir debate over whether or not pure glucose is optimal for glycogen replenishment , and it seems that glycogen repletion isnt the main factor anyways, perhaps discussing protein synthesis optimization would be beneficial…
I’ve heard around these forums that the “'slin spike” post workout is only necessary in those individuals who train fasted. Me personally, I have a whey shake and 45-75g CHO pre workout. When I’m about 90% way through my workout, I notice a loss in a pump. Even when not directly hitting the biceps, I can tell it’s dissipating. It’s usually at that point that I cease my lifting… I try my best to get all of my work in before that happens, but in reality, it’s not a matter of racing through your workout and getting it completed before you lose that pump… If you went super slow during your workout, the pump would be there for the duration, however if you did the same exact volume, but faster, the pump would dissipate faster. At least thats the way I see it.
So I see it as the muscle being depleted of glycogen, thus needing to be repleted post workout. The slin spike and all that jibber jabber is essentially a “train” to the muscle cells, and AA’s, creatine, glucose,water etc are all the passengers, and we want to get the train rolling ASAP… That’s the way I see it…So, my spiel aside, if the glycogen repletion in not the #1 factor for muscle growth, and protein synthesis IS, let’s take the conversation in that direction…
How do we maximize that post workout? Oh and if anyone wants to chime in with regards to my interpretation of the “pump” and glycogen, etc… I’d love to hear your thoughts. Great thread guys
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Why should one care about carbohydrates “post workout”?
Insulin does not matter to building new muscle tissue.
Any protein one eats will elicit an insulin response.
One only needs a few grams of protein more than maintenance levels to build skeletal muscle.
One can only build a limited amount of skeletal muscle at a time; especially without hormonal therapy.
The biggest factor to building new muscle is energy intake and hormone balance; too little energy intake and hormone imbalance will not allow optimal muscle growth.
Eat lots of fat and protein and lift heavy weights.
…and don’t ask bodybuilders for their opinions about nutrition because they are only guessing.[/quote]
I REALLY don’t like to mention my credentials these days–an undergraduate in nutrition and a masters in nutrition and exercise physiology (sports nutrition focus) with a mentor that co-founded the most influental sports nutrition organization in the world–but it applies here, in an unexpected way.
With all my studies (and a thesis dealing with carb intake of endurace athletes), I learned VERY LITTLE regarding the actual practice of and counseling on sports and bodybuilding nutrition.
So I turn to and advise everyone else to turn to what every successful, or at least decent, bodybuilder has ever done to build muscle because it is boring for me and most to sift through nerdy studies that are unenjoyable to read and which can’t be correctly critiqued by most! And it’s pretty much the same shit across the board, regardless of what studies say or what information is pushed from point A to point B!
Here it is for mass gaining (contest prep is another topic):
- Protein set at 1 to 1.5 grams per pound.
- Moderate carbs and fats.
- Four to six days a week in the gym.
- Cardio a few times a week for heart health and to keep bodyfat in check.
- Two to four exercises per bodypart.
- 6 to 15 reps (sometimes even higher for legs or some isolation exercises).
- Isolation, machine, and basic free weight lifts thrown into the mix.
That’s it! I haven’t seen anyone else do anything different: all spins and styles and a million reinventions of the wheel! We can sift through geeky studies, reason, analyze, and talk about warm and fuzzy stuff like “insulin spikes” (if I hear this one more time…), nutrient timing (OK, this one isn’t so bad), and god knows what else. Yes, some BB’ers, believe, say, and do silly shit. But most of us don’t have time or inclination to reinvent the wheel or figure out everything out ourselves.
[/quote]
shhh…you forgot to mention steroids.
[/quote]
Yeah, that too. Just ask Bob Chick. “Steroids are just the finishing touch.” Haha!
[quote]Severiano wrote:
Heh, it’s hard to know what to listen to and what not to. On one hand we want to pay attention to those who’s physiques, strength and accomplishments we admire, on the other hand we want to take as scientific an approach as possible. There isn’t always a dichotomy between the two, but there is sometimes.
To be honest I’m not always impressed with the physiques or writings of some of the guys who write for T-muscle, but am I only going to pay attention to guys like C.T, Dave Tate or John Meadows? We need our own filters and the use of common sense. Sometimes our common sense or our filters are a little bit off, and we need somebody to tell us to stfu and listen, or stfu and put more work in and that’s hard ass pill to swallow being that most guys in our way of life/hobby have ego’s that match their ideal physiques. I can only imagine the amount of hours, days, months, years these guys have put into their progress. I’m just thankful there are some honest guys around who love this shit and are willing to share concepts and ideas to fine tune an already solid foundation that these guys have lived.
Brickhead, I sure as hell hope you have some ideas to share with your background. I would love to pick the brain of someone like yourself.
We may not always see eye to eye, but we all share a similar love for lifting and challenging, competing with ourselves and others. Sometimes we lose sight of what’s important and we get a little disillusioned, or the whole thing becomes convoluted when we plateau. It’s exactly at this time when we need to refocus and take a serious look at what we can and should do differently.[/quote]
Good post. And thanks for the compliment. Thought I don’t know if I have anything novel toshare. I’m just a guy who loves nutrition and exercise and a huge bodyduilding fan, aiming to do my first natural show next year.
[quote]McBEAST23 wrote:
So I’m the OP and just realized that this thread really came to life…This is good. Perhaps we can come to a consensus on what we must do post workout to maximize protein synthesis in order to facilitate new muscle growth. Since the study I initially posted was intended to stir debate over whether or not pure glucose is optimal for glycogen replenishment , and it seems that glycogen repletion isnt the main factor anyways, perhaps discussing protein synthesis optimization would be beneficial…
I’ve heard around these forums that the “'slin spike” post workout is only necessary in those individuals who train fasted. Me personally, I have a whey shake and 45-75g CHO pre workout. When I’m about 90% way through my workout, I notice a loss in a pump. Even when not directly hitting the biceps, I can tell it’s dissipating. It’s usually at that point that I cease my lifting… I try my best to get all of my work in before that happens, but in reality, it’s not a matter of racing through your workout and getting it completed before you lose that pump… If you went super slow during your workout, the pump would be there for the duration, however if you did the same exact volume, but faster, the pump would dissipate faster. At least thats the way I see it.
So I see it as the muscle being depleted of glycogen, thus needing to be repleted post workout. The slin spike and all that jibber jabber is essentially a “train” to the muscle cells, and AA’s, creatine, glucose,water etc are all the passengers, and we want to get the train rolling ASAP… That’s the way I see it…So, my spiel aside, if the glycogen repletion in not the #1 factor for muscle growth, and protein synthesis IS, let’s take the conversation in that direction…
How do we maximize that post workout? Oh and if anyone wants to chime in with regards to my interpretation of the “pump” and glycogen, etc… I’d love to hear your thoughts. Great thread guys[/quote]
If you haven’t yet, read this article:
Written by two very intelligent guys, along with a ton of references to current research.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]browndisaster wrote:
…but this doesn’t mean low carbohydrate is the way to go. I see no reason to go low carb other than during fat loss phases.
I completely disagree with “Eat lots of fat and protein and lift heavy weights.” Past your protein intake, splitting the calories between carbs and fat would at the very least improve performance in the gym.[/quote]
Keeping insulin low helps one maintain weight. For this reason low carbohydrate dieting is useful for people who compete in weight dependent/performance based sports.
Having glycogen in muscle cells does not mean one need consume carbohydrate as the majority macronutrient in ones diet. Protein can support this, too. And remember, glycogen is only necessary during anaerobic activity. Most people can store up to 2000 kcal at any given time which is more than enough to sustain hours of intense activity (>60% V02 Max).
If carbohydrate is only to make energy then that can be met by eating fat which can sustain all activity.
There is much research necessary in the field of low carbohydrate and performance nutrition.[/quote]
Bullshit
They give Football players IV for a reason. Anyone who has ever had a cramp and needed to continue maximum performance knows the importance of sugar. [/quote]
Given that these people probably rely heavily on Gatorade for energy, no wonder they cramp and need IV.
Take carbohydrate away from them for a given period of time and they will not be dependent on dietary carbohydrates at all. Once adapted to a ketogenic diet fat becomes the primary fuel source conserving glycogen for only the most intense of bouts (i.e., the tpyical 8 sec play of football with plenty of rest in between downs).[/quote]
Like who?
All forms of sprinting, running are intense bouts, your muscles have to embrace for 60%+ of your body weight every foot strike. Your body will adapt to no/vl carbs by performing less intensely. Anything you do less intensely requires less muscle building.
Anyone performing and training with vl/zero carbs will be second tier to someone training just as intensely with higher closer to optimum carb levels. [/quote]
Which is why I want to see more research on it because I don’t believe that statement is true.[/quote]
do you have anecdotal evidence of people getting big off no carb diets? I don’t see why they would be necessary for an athlete at ~10% bodyfat.
[quote]schanz_05 wrote:
[quote]McBEAST23 wrote:
So I’m the OP and just realized that this thread really came to life…This is good. Perhaps we can come to a consensus on what we must do post workout to maximize protein synthesis in order to facilitate new muscle growth. Since the study I initially posted was intended to stir debate over whether or not pure glucose is optimal for glycogen replenishment , and it seems that glycogen repletion isnt the main factor anyways, perhaps discussing protein synthesis optimization would be beneficial…
I’ve heard around these forums that the “'slin spike” post workout is only necessary in those individuals who train fasted. Me personally, I have a whey shake and 45-75g CHO pre workout. When I’m about 90% way through my workout, I notice a loss in a pump. Even when not directly hitting the biceps, I can tell it’s dissipating. It’s usually at that point that I cease my lifting… I try my best to get all of my work in before that happens, but in reality, it’s not a matter of racing through your workout and getting it completed before you lose that pump… If you went super slow during your workout, the pump would be there for the duration, however if you did the same exact volume, but faster, the pump would dissipate faster. At least thats the way I see it.
So I see it as the muscle being depleted of glycogen, thus needing to be repleted post workout. The slin spike and all that jibber jabber is essentially a “train” to the muscle cells, and AA’s, creatine, glucose,water etc are all the passengers, and we want to get the train rolling ASAP… That’s the way I see it…So, my spiel aside, if the glycogen repletion in not the #1 factor for muscle growth, and protein synthesis IS, let’s take the conversation in that direction…
How do we maximize that post workout? Oh and if anyone wants to chime in with regards to my interpretation of the “pump” and glycogen, etc… I’d love to hear your thoughts. Great thread guys[/quote]
If you haven’t yet, read this article:
Written by two very intelligent guys, along with a ton of references to current research.
[/quote]
Thanks… Will read now
Okay I had a follow up question somewhat in regards to my OP. I didn’t want to start a new thread for it b/c I feel its more than likely a simple answer…If on days we don’t exercise, thus no trans-location of the glut-4 receptor to the plasma membrane, when we consume carbohydrates in our meals, would it be wise to have a fast digesting carbohydrate before our slow digesting ones? Theory being that the insulin release will cause trans-location of the glut-4. I suppose the trick would be in making sure that it happens in skeletal muscle and not in adipocytes…Is this the function of Thioctic acid (aka. R-ALA)