Only One Month of Bulking?

Training Bodybuilding
81

[quote]Short Hoss wrote:
elano wrote:
Professor X wrote:
elano wrote:

Im talking from my experience with bodyfat calipers. I normally start seeing abs around 9 and get very lean looking around 5. Again this is using a caliper measurement and bodyfat % formula.

Is this a joke? You START to get “very lean” at 5% body fat?

You read that wrong, START getting lean around 9. Very lean around 5. This isnt a precise measurement either, this is using a caliper and formula.

Sentoguy wrote:

elano wrote:
I am a complete fatass unless I make a conscious effort to watch what I eat.

yeah, im 175lb 6"1 and been lifting for 2 years.

Dude, no you’re NOT. You are nowhere near being a fatass at 175 6’1". You are skinny, maybe skinny-fat, but not at fatass.

Also, no one is suggesting that you “never” cut. Just that cutting everytime you start to make progress will get you nowhere fast.

If you want to gain substantial amounts of muscle mass, then bulk until you reach your desired goal (whatever that may be) and then, decide where you want to go from there. Maybe you still want more mass, so you continue to bulk until you reach your new goal. Maybe you’re satisfied with your new mass, so you decide to cut down to see it more clearly. That was the original concept behind bulking and cutting.

The concept of bulking and cutting cycles is solid, it’s just been misconstrued and misused by people who are obsessed with seeing their abs to mean running around in circles by way of 3 month bulking cycles and 2 month cutting cycles throughout the year.

I know I am not fat, skinny, or skinny-fat. I was just saying that If I dont watch what I eat my physique goes to shit. Im ~10% at the moment.

Thanks to the guys who are actually giving useful information to back up their statements.

Let me see if i got the “Basics” on dieting down here…
Start by picking a number you think will give you mass. Well say this is 3000. You eat that # every day, sometimes a little more, never less. You notice the bf creeping up over a few weeks so you cut back a couple hundred cals. It works for a while and all lifts #s go up. Eventually, you go a couple weeks or a month without making any gains on the lifts so you up the cals by 200? Calories comming from clean foods of course and no cheating?

Im guessing its better to judge “gaining” by the lifts going up instead of the scale moving since so many other factors are involved with that right?

Is that how yall are doing it?

No. I use the scale and mirror. I do not count calories. I eat fast food WITH clean food. Notice “WITH”. I don’t like eating a lot; a triple whopper will solve that.

I pick a waist size number (I’m 5’6" and the waist size I picked is 36") to not go over. If I do, I do cardio. If that doesn’t solve it, I cut back a bit on food. Once again, I do not count calories. This shit is so simplistic that you don’t need calorie counters, etc.

JUST USE YOUR SCALE AND MIRROR.
[/quote]

Dude this is bulking/cutting phases.

So you bulk until your waist gets to 36", then you cut until its back down and start the cycle over again. The only way to lower your bf% is to cause a calorie deficit or increasing LBM while keeping bf the same which is very, very hard to do accurately without counting. I mean you said it yourself one day you may eat otmeal and chicken, the next a tripple whopper, how do keep track of where you calories are going?

82

[quote]elano wrote:
Let me see if i got the “Basics” on dieting down here…
Start by picking a number you think will give you mass. Well say this is 3000. You eat that # every day, sometimes a little more, never less. You notice the bf creeping up over a few weeks so you cut back a couple hundred cals. It works for a while and all lifts #s go up. Eventually, you go a couple weeks or a month without making any gains on the lifts so you up the cals by 200? Calories comming from clean foods of course and no cheating?

Im guessing its better to judge “gaining” by the lifts going up instead of the scale moving since so many other factors are involved with that right?

Is that how yall are doing it?

[/quote]

I started at 3k kcals. I weigh myself every morning after urinating. Every time that weight stopped going up for 3 days, I increased kcals by 200.

I’m currently at 4.6k kcals… like Hoss (and most people) I eat clean food with junk food as long as the junk food provides decent nutritional value. As long as the junk food isn’t straight sugar and you aren’t excessive, you shouldn’t gain tons of fat.

83

Why do people say abs get chicks? Do people go to bars and clubs without shirts on? Do people go to the beach every day? If you can pick up a chick, you can pick up a chick. Being borderline anorexic and having a six pack, versus having some muscle and sort of a six pack in the right light will probably not make a difference. Except if you are one of those douchebags who lifts their shirts up every time a camera goes off, in which case, stop being a douchebag.

84

[quote]elano wrote:

Dude this is bulking/cutting phases.

So you bulk until your waist gets to 36", then you cut until its back down and start the cycle over again. The only way to lower your bf% is to cause a calorie deficit or increasing LBM while keeping bf the same which is very, very hard to do accurately without counting. I mean you said it yourself one day you may eat otmeal and chicken, the next a tripple whopper, how do keep track of where you calories are going?[/quote]

No, this is continual minor adjustments. A cutting phase would be ditching the current diet, dropping calories, and increasing cardio with the main goal of LOSING FAT.

How is it difficult to do? Bodybuilders tend to eat the same things day in and day out. If its making them too fat, they eat a little less, if its not putting size on them, they eat a little more.

How do you know what is difficult and what isnt…YOU HAVENT DONE SHIT YET.

The mindset you are displaying here is making it very clear to me why we are even having this discussion with you. Here is what you need to do:

  1. throw your computer out the window
  2. lift heavy
  3. eat
  4. lift heavier
  5. repeat
85

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
elano wrote:

Dude this is bulking/cutting phases.

So you bulk until your waist gets to 36", then you cut until its back down and start the cycle over again. The only way to lower your bf% is to cause a calorie deficit or increasing LBM while keeping bf the same which is very, very hard to do accurately without counting. I mean you said it yourself one day you may eat otmeal and chicken, the next a tripple whopper, how do keep track of where you calories are going?

No, this is continual minor adjustments. A cutting phase would be ditching the current diet, dropping calories, and increasing cardio with the main goal of LOSING FAT.

How is it difficult to do? Bodybuilders tend to eat the same things day in and day out. If its making them too fat, they eat a little less, if its not putting size on them, they eat a little more.

How do you know what is difficult and what isnt…YOU HAVENT DONE SHIT YET.

The mindset you are displaying here is making it very clear to me why we are even having this discussion with you. Here is what you need to do:

  1. throw your computer out the window
  2. lift heavy
  3. eat
  4. lift heavier
  5. repeat[/quote]

I admire you guys’ patience at this…

Having mostly read IM’s dogg pound before coming here 2 years ago, I’m still not used to people ignoring the search function and starting the same debates over and over again, writing while they should be reading.

That, and the lack of serious trainees with progress to show :confused:

86

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

  1. throw your computer out the window
  2. lift heavy
  3. eat
  4. lift heavier
  5. repeat[/quote]

That should probably be a sticky

87

Elano you have to look at this from a problem solving perspective. Like stronghold said people will fall into habits of eating roughly the same things for most of their meals so let’s just call that “baseline”.

After 3 months of the baseline diet working a person notices their size gains have halted. They are training hard, the diet hasn’t slacked so let’s problem solve.

A) Add 1-2 oz to your meat portions
see how it goes for 4 weeks. Problem solved? Ok then see you next month. Not solved? OK let’s move to step B
B) Add 1 tbsp olive oil to 2 protein drinks a day for 4 weeks. Problem solved? OK then see you next month. Not solved? Ok let’s try something else
etc etc

Another person has their own personal baseline diet and although they are gaining strength and size it is at the expense of too much bodyfat. Let’s just say they want to keep clear sight of their abs the whole time. Well then let’s problem solve again…

A) Add 20 minutes cardio 2-3 times a week at low intensity for 4 weeks. Problem solved? OK then see you next month. Not solved? let’s try again

B) Cut carbs out of the last 2 meals of the evening(unless post workout) for 4 weeks? Problem solved? Ok see you next month. Not solved? let’s try plan C… etc etc etc

2 years later 170 lb Johnnie is now 215 lb Johnnie and he never got too out of shape. He ate to grow, trained his ass off and made necessary tweaks along the way to keep things as optimal as he needed.

So whether that baseline diet you picked out in the beginning carries you all the way to your goals with no plateuas along the way(fat chance) or you end up with

baseline+A+B+C-D+E+F=maximum muscle mass gains with minial bodyfat gains to be happy just freaking get it done. Nobody wants to hear about your genetics or tendencies to gain fat or have a hard time gaining muscle. Everyone has their own individual things they have to worry about. For myself, I know I can’t go hog wild with the food and have to maintain at least 3 30 minute cardio sessions a week to stay lean enough on my journey upward. The guy next to me in the gym might need to add natural peanut butter to all his meals to get his calories high enough to grow. Figure out what YOU need to do and get it done or be happy going in circles.

88

[quote]Scott M wrote:
Elano you have to look at this from a problem solving perspective. Like stronghold said people will fall into habits of eating roughly the same things for most of their meals so let’s just call that “baseline”.

After 3 months of the baseline diet working a person notices their size gains have halted. They are training hard, the diet hasn’t slacked so let’s problem solve.

A) Add 1-2 oz to your meat portions
see how it goes for 4 weeks. Problem solved? Ok then see you next month. Not solved? OK let’s move to step B
B) Add 1 tbsp olive oil to 2 protein drinks a day for 4 weeks. Problem solved? OK then see you next month. Not solved? Ok let’s try something else
etc etc

Another person has their own personal baseline diet and although they are gaining strength and size it is at the expense of too much bodyfat. Let’s just say they want to keep clear sight of their abs the whole time. Well then let’s problem solve again…

A) Add 20 minutes cardio 2-3 times a week at low intensity for 4 weeks. Problem solved? OK then see you next month. Not solved? let’s try again

B) Cut carbs out of the last 2 meals of the evening(unless post workout) for 4 weeks? Problem solved? Ok see you next month. Not solved? let’s try plan C… etc etc etc

2 years later 170 lb Johnnie is now 215 lb Johnnie and he never got too out of shape. He ate to grow, trained his ass off and made necessary tweaks along the way to keep things as optimal as he needed.

So whether that baseline diet you picked out in the beginning carries you all the way to your goals with no plateuas along the way(fat chance) or you end up with

baseline+A+B+C-D+E+F=maximum muscle mass gains with minial bodyfat gains to be happy just freaking get it done. Nobody wants to hear about your genetics or tendencies to gain fat or have a hard time gaining muscle. Everyone has their own individual things they have to worry about. For myself, I know I can’t go hog wild with the food and have to maintain at least 3 30 minute cardio sessions a week to stay lean enough on my journey upward. The guy next to me in the gym might need to add natural peanut butter to all his meals to get his calories high enough to grow. Figure out what YOU need to do and get it done or be happy going in circles.
[/quote]

Excellent post, Scott. Your posts always have a way of clarifying things for me even when you’re not addressing me.

89

That’s also a huge problem.

You believe that you “begin” getting lean at 9 % - are you fucking kidding me? Single digit bodyfat IS lean…

You have some serious food/body image issues if that’s your line of thinking.

90

Great post ScottM!

I’ve made (we all have) that point several times but it still seems like it falls on deaf ears.

That point being that if 4,200 calories is making you grow now at 170lbs, it will (hopefully) soon not be enough energy to sustain that growth. You may need 4,600 to grow and even THAT will eventually not be sufficient to allow growth to take place.

AS YOU get bigger, you’re calorie level must grow with you.

91

Well, thanks for clarifying for to elano for me, guys.

Never knew tweaking things was so hard to understand.

92

[quote]Scott M wrote:
Elano you have to look at this from a problem solving perspective. Like stronghold said people will fall into habits of eating roughly the same things for most of their meals so let’s just call that “baseline”.

After 3 months of the baseline diet working a person notices their size gains have halted. They are training hard, the diet hasn’t slacked so let’s problem solve.

A) Add 1-2 oz to your meat portions
see how it goes for 4 weeks. Problem solved? Ok then see you next month. Not solved? OK let’s move to step B
B) Add 1 tbsp olive oil to 2 protein drinks a day for 4 weeks. Problem solved? OK then see you next month. Not solved? Ok let’s try something else
etc etc

Another person has their own personal baseline diet and although they are gaining strength and size it is at the expense of too much bodyfat. Let’s just say they want to keep clear sight of their abs the whole time. Well then let’s problem solve again…

A) Add 20 minutes cardio 2-3 times a week at low intensity for 4 weeks. Problem solved? OK then see you next month. Not solved? let’s try again

B) Cut carbs out of the last 2 meals of the evening(unless post workout) for 4 weeks? Problem solved? Ok see you next month. Not solved? let’s try plan C… etc etc etc

2 years later 170 lb Johnnie is now 215 lb Johnnie and he never got too out of shape. He ate to grow, trained his ass off and made necessary tweaks along the way to keep things as optimal as he needed.

So whether that baseline diet you picked out in the beginning carries you all the way to your goals with no plateuas along the way(fat chance) or you end up with

baseline+A+B+C-D+E+F=maximum muscle mass gains with minial bodyfat gains to be happy just freaking get it done. Nobody wants to hear about your genetics or tendencies to gain fat or have a hard time gaining muscle. Everyone has their own individual things they have to worry about. For myself, I know I can’t go hog wild with the food and have to maintain at least 3 30 minute cardio sessions a week to stay lean enough on my journey upward. The guy next to me in the gym might need to add natural peanut butter to all his meals to get his calories high enough to grow. Figure out what YOU need to do and get it done or be happy going in circles.
[/quote]

That makes alot of sense Scott. Thanks for clarifying the whole process. Great post. Im going to actually try doing it this way. normally when the fat starts creepin’ up i would just forget about it and say “ill loose it when i cut”, but now I will try to think of it as just tweaking the overall diet and not so much as changing diet phases.

[quote]SkyNett wrote:
That’s also a huge problem.

You believe that you “begin” getting lean at 9 % - are you fucking kidding me? Single digit bodyfat IS lean…

You have some serious food/body image issues if that’s your line of thinking. [/quote]

Again for like the 5th time here, when i say 9%, I am just telling you what my calculator says when I put in the mm measurements from the bodyfat caliper when I begin to start seeing abs. If your body is different then great for you but don’t start trying to act like a psychiatrist telling people they have food/body issues and shit because they believe 9% and under is what they consider lean.

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Stronghold wrote:

How do you know what is difficult and what isnt…YOU HAVENT DONE SHIT YET.

The mindset you are displaying here is making it very clear to me why we are even having this discussion with you. Here is what you need to do:

  1. throw your computer out the window
  2. lift heavy
  3. eat
  4. lift heavier
  5. repeat

I admire you guys’ patience at this…

Having mostly read IM’s dogg pound before coming here 2 years ago, I’m still not used to people ignoring the search function and starting the same debates over and over again, writing while they should be reading.

That, and the lack of serious trainees with progress to show :confused:
[/quote]

First of all you dont me so why are you going to say that I havnt done shit yet. I can almost pull 2x bodyweight and bench 1.25 bw. I know this isnt advanced but saying that I havnt accomplished shit is just being dickish.

I did however think it was funny how you throw your computer out the window every time you start lifting heavier.

IF you have any good articles in mind for the rest of us to read on the topic then post the links if you want to be useful.

[quote]raindrops wrote:
Why do people say abs get chicks? Do people go to bars and clubs without shirts on? Do people go to the beach every day? If you can pick up a chick, you can pick up a chick. Being borderline anorexic and having a six pack, versus having some muscle and sort of a six pack in the right light will probably not make a difference. Except if you are one of those douchebags who lifts their shirts up every time a camera goes off, in which case, stop being a douchebag.[/quote]

Because its true. If you want to pick up a chick at a bar in a college town, you either have to have money, spit good game, be very good looking, dance real good, have a big dick, or something to offer them over the next guy. If you have a nice six-pack and decent muscle mass then you don’t have to have any of the above things to look attractive to a chic. Im not talking about having a six-pack for taking pictures, Im saying have something hard for a girl to feel on while your grindin’ her ass in the club that will make here want to come home with you and Im not talking about your dick. Its proven that a true six-pack is considered universally attractive.

93

[quote]elano wrote:

Because its true. If you want to pick up a chick at a bar in a college town, you either have to have money, spit good game, be very good looking, dance real good, have a big dick, or something to offer them over the next guy. If you have a nice six-pack and decent muscle mass then you don’t have to have any of the above things to look attractive to a chic. Im not talking about having a six-pack for taking pictures, Im saying have something hard for a girl to feel on while your grindin’ her ass in the club that will make here want to come home with you and Im not talking about your dick. Its proven that a true six-pack is considered universally attractive.[/quote]

How old are you? 17? 18?

Having a six pack doesnt give you something over the next guy. In case you havent noticed, something like 80% of college aged guys have six packs. Looking like you lift when you have a shirt on though…not so many.

I guaranfuckingtee you that I get more attention now than I did at 150.

94

[quote]elano wrote:

Because its true. If you want to pick up a chick at a bar in a college town, you either have to have money, spit good game, be very good looking, dance real good, have a big dick, or something to offer them over the next guy. If you have a nice six-pack and decent muscle mass then you don’t have to have any of the above things to look attractive to a chic. Im not talking about having a six-pack for taking pictures, Im saying have something hard for a girl to feel on while your grindin’ her ass in the club that will make here want to come home with you and Im not talking about your dick. Its proven that a true six-pack is considered universally attractive.[/quote]

I have friends of all shapes and sizes who have picked up all sorts of different chicks. Personality and self confidence win over all else. If having a six pack gives you more self confidence than being generally bigger, than more power to you. Just don’t complain a few years down the road about the years you wasted trying to remain cut while building some decent muscle. Btw I wasnt calling you douchebag or anything, sorry if it came of that way, I have just seen too many of these guys around school and can’t stand that shit.

95

[quote]raindrops wrote:

I have friends of all shapes and sizes who have picked up all sorts of different chicks. Personality and self confidence win over all else. If having a six pack gives you more self confidence than being generally bigger, than more power to you. Just don’t complain a few years down the road about the years you wasted trying to remain cut while building some decent muscle. Btw I wasnt calling you douchebag or anything, sorry if it came of that way, I have just seen too many of these guys around school and can’t stand that shit.[/quote]

Oh, ok thats straight. I guess different strokes for different folks. I agree in the end it is a self-confidence thing but you have to have something to feel confident about like being good at riding motorcycles or playing guitar, and being ripped.

Stronghold you weigh like 15lbs more than me and youve only been working out 1 year longer. I bet you have a pretty high bf% too.

96

There are four whole pages of this shit?

97

[quote]Professor X wrote:
There are four whole pages of this shit?[/quote]

Wrong.
There’s a whole forum full, and then some.

98

[quote]elano wrote:

Stronghold you weigh like 15lbs more than me and youve only been working out 1 year longer. I bet you have a pretty high bf% too.
[/quote]

Im 5’ 7" , 195, and no, I do not have a pretty high bf%. There are several members on this site who know me personally and can attest to the fact that I look like I lift. Thats about all that you are going to get out of me because I cant really justify spending more than 20 seconds defending myself against a 6 ft 170 dweeb who thinks hes hot shit on the internet.

99

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
elano wrote:

Stronghold you weigh like 15lbs more than me and youve only been working out 1 year longer. I bet you have a pretty high bf% too.

Im 5’ 7" , 195, and no, I do not have a pretty high bf%. There are several members on this site who know me personally and can attest to the fact that I look like I lift. Thats about all that you are going to get out of me because I cant really justify spending more than 20 seconds defending myself against a 6 ft 170 dweeb who thinks hes hot shit on the internet.[/quote]

I guess I missed the issue of men’s health that said “Common sense and logic are out”.

Congratulations to Stronghold for having the stats of a small tank :wink:

100

[quote]Professor X wrote:
There are four whole pages of this shit?[/quote]

It should have ended right after your first post but some people need it explained 18 different ways and have it pounded into their head over and over again till it “clicks” at least somewhat.

“Hmmm all these guys who have 20-60 lbs of LBM more than me are saying this… maybe I should reconsider my ways” lol

Now let’s argue some more about how to get college chicks in bed.