Alright.
Do you guys have any links to articles?
[quote]elano wrote:
Do you guys have any links to articles?[/quote]
That’s exactly what someone like you does NOT need.
[quote]elano wrote:
Im talking from my experience with bodyfat calipers. I normally start seeing abs around 9 and get very lean looking around 5. Again this is using a caliper measurement and bodyfat % formula.
[/quote]
Is this a joke? You START to get “very lean” at 5% body fat?
What I really don’t get is why, since you and others like you are so clueless, you don’t listen more than you type. You clearly don’t know what you are talking about and your concept of body fat percentages is about as wrong as you can get…yet here you are after several pages still typing.
There are people who don’t hit a true 5% even in competition shape. Much below that and you could start to experience health problems.
This is why beginners should avoid even worrying about their body fat NUMBER. This information could serve no purpose at all other than to hold you back from making progress.
When you actually learn what it takes to build some real size on you, then you can take as many random readings as you want. Until then, this obsession with numbers is plain stupid. None of you are making enough progress to even justify that angle.
I could see if all of you were just blowing up and surpassing everyone else here with that approach…BUT WHERE ARE THE ONES WHO ARE SEEING SUCH GREAT PROGRESS FROM THIS?
Losing some body fat is NOT difficult. It is also NOT like getting into literal contest shape and takes relatively little time…so why make that the primary focus?
This is all kinds of ridiculous.
You need to stop focusing on these articles - I started making a LOT more progress when I stopped believing everything I read on here and just stuck with the basics. The only articles are mainly read now are regarding recovery and preventative measures against injuries.
If you keep lifting and learning about your body through trial and error with food and workouts, you will eventually “get” it. Hopefully.
Interesting thread, especially in my position:
In the last 18 months I’ve gone from 260lbs to 170lbs (I’m now about 15-17% bf). I discovered lifting about 9 months ago (and I love it!). My goal is to be lean and to add muscle (what a shock, hehe).
But, after 18 months of weight loss my body either got too accustomed to it, or I just lost the will, or both. So I started a bulking cycle (my first) 3 weeks ago. My plan (before reading this thread maybe, hehe) was to bulk for 8 weeks, then cut for 4. Then repeat. I have my diet carefully planned. I’m tweaking my calories upwards (at 3000 now, but will move up to 3500 next week, etc).
My goal is to add 1lb a week during bulking, then lose 2lbs a week during the cut - keeping the lifts heavy & protein high. My theory behind this plan was to add muscle & strength, then continue losing the excess fat. I also thought the 2 months of high calories would make the cut more effective.
I know most people feel you should get lean first, but after 18 months I’d really had enough and my body just didn’t respond. Am I doing this all wrong?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
elano wrote:
Do you guys have any links to articles?
That’s exactly what someone like you does NOT need.[/quote]
I wish I would’ve made a documentary of my first 6 months of training starting at 6’2 and under 160lbs.
Almost ZEE-ROH information, no internet then. All I did was push n pull on stuff until it hurt a lot and ate Burger King. I made gains that everybody I knew noticed.
You know that whole story, but I thought I’d throw in the very short version for this guy’s edification.
[quote]appro wrote:
Interesting thread, especially in my position:
In the last 18 months I’ve gone from 260lbs to 170lbs (I’m now about 15-17% bf). I discovered lifting about 9 months ago (and I love it!). My goal is to be lean and to add muscle (what a shock, hehe).
But, after 18 months of weight loss my body either got too accustomed to it, or I just lost the will, or both. So I started a bulking cycle (my first) 3 weeks ago. My plan (before reading this thread maybe, hehe) was to bulk for 8 weeks, then cut for 4. Then repeat. I have my diet carefully planned. I’m tweaking my calories upwards (at 3000 now, but will move up to 3500 next week, etc).
My goal is to add 1lb a week during bulking, then lose 2lbs a week during the cut - keeping the lifts heavy & protein high. My theory behind this plan was to add muscle & strength, then continue losing the excess fat. I also thought the 2 months of high calories would make the cut more effective.
I know most people feel you should get lean first, but after 18 months I’d really had enough and my body just didn’t respond. Am I doing this all wrong? [/quote]
You since you’ve lost a LOT of fat, I would take a break and maintain my bodyweight at that point for a few months so your body gets used to it - all while still lifting weights.
You just need to sit on a maintenance level for a while and let your body get used to your new weight, then go back to losing the last few pounds. A complete substitution of foods with a low carb approach would be what I’d do.
Once you start “bulking”, starting at maintenance is fine, but don’t jump in increments of 500kcal in a week, that’s asking for trouble since you used to be a lot larger and will be more prone to gain the fat back. 200kcal a week is what I’d shoot for - it’s not a race to raise calories - do things slowly with a single goal in mind and you will get there, and gain a better understanding of your body during the journey. If you start gaining weight to fast, try throwing in some light cardio 2-3x a week.
As for cycles ever 8 weeks, since you aim to bulk 8lbs, and then cut 8lbs you’d be running around in circles and just get frustrated with little-to-no progress, as has been mentioned before.
Have your calories above maintenance, but don’t be afraid to raise them up if you are not seeing results. You will gain some fat, maybe even more than what a really skinny person would on a bulk, but lift heavy and you will get there.
[quote]rsg wrote:
You since you’ve lost a LOT of fat, I would take a break and maintain my bodyweight at that point for a few months so your body gets used to it - all while still lifting weights.
You just need to sit on a maintenance level for a while and let your body get used to your new weight, then go back to losing the last few pounds. A complete substitution of foods with a low carb approach would be what I’d do.
Once you start “bulking”, starting at maintenance is fine, but don’t jump in increments of 500kcal in a week, that’s asking for trouble since you used to be a lot larger and will be more prone to gain the fat back. 200kcal a week is what I’d shoot for - it’s not a race to raise calories - do things slowly with a single goal in mind and you will get there, and gain a better understanding of your body during the journey. If you start gaining weight to fast, try throwing in some light cardio 2-3x a week.
As for cycles ever 8 weeks, since you aim to bulk 8lbs, and then cut 8lbs you’d be running around in circles and just get frustrated with little-to-no progress, as has been mentioned before.
Have your calories above maintenance, but don’t be afraid to raise them up if you are not seeing results. You will gain some fat, maybe even more than what a really skinny person would on a bulk, but lift heavy and you will get there.[/quote]
I’m at maintenance now, but I feel a lot stronger - my lifts are increasing every week. I am very wary of adding more fat, so maybe continuing on maintenance for the rest of this bulk is a good idea. Then I can cut. I’ll monitor things closely for a couple of weeks.
As for my diet, I’ve been on the Anabolic Diet for a few months. If I eat carbs I pile on weight, so the AD works well for me. It also forces me to be disciplined and is high protein too. I record every calorie, gram of fat/protein/carbs I eat every day. This enables me to spot possible problems and tweak my diet easily.
If I gained 8lbs over the 8 weeks, then go on a cut (to lose 8 lbs) then I may be going around in circles. But I was under the impression that if I kept protein high, and kept lifting big, that I could minimise muscle loss. Is this incorrect?
I think this is a bit of an experiment for me. I want to shake my body up, to stop it going into starvation mode as soon as I cut.
funny thing is, I’m no longer disputing those who have been there done that. If they say bulking for 6-8 months then a few months of cutting isn’t a good idea, I’ll believe them because it does make sense.
Amazing how some will argue over every little thing. You’d think they would be burning 500 calories a day just in arguing, lol
[quote]elano wrote:
GuerillaZen wrote:
It’s obvious when people have no idea what real bodyfat percentages are. 7-10% is VERY lean for the average person walking around. You probably do not even know anyone who walks around at less than 7%
Im talking from my experience with bodyfat calipers. I normally start seeing abs around 9 and get very lean looking around 5. Again this is using a caliper measurement and bodyfat % formula.
Anyways it could be 10-15% or whatever, were talking about maintaining a decent level of conditioning here not what your bodyfat % is.[/quote]
Geeeesh! Alright, this is 18-20% bf. See the outline of his abs? I do.
“Fatasses”!
Ha!
Dude, no you’re NOT. You are nowhere near being a fatass at 175 6’1". You are skinny, maybe skinny-fat, but not at fatass.
Also, no one is suggesting that you “never” cut. Just that cutting everytime you start to make progress will get you nowhere fast.
If you want to gain substantial amounts of muscle mass, then bulk until you reach your desired goal (whatever that may be) and then, decide where you want to go from there. Maybe you still want more mass, so you continue to bulk until you reach your new goal. Maybe you’re satisfied with your new mass, so you decide to cut down to see it more clearly. That was the original concept behind bulking and cutting.
The concept of bulking and cutting cycles is solid, it’s just been misconstrued and misused by people who are obsessed with seeing their abs to mean running around in circles by way of 3 month bulking cycles and 2 month cutting cycles throughout the year.
[quote]rsg wrote:
You since you’ve lost a LOT of fat, I would take a break and maintain my bodyweight at that point for a few months so your body gets used to it - all while still lifting weights.
You just need to sit on a maintenance level for a while and let your body get used to your new weight, then go back to losing the last few pounds. A complete substitution of foods with a low carb approach would be what I’d do.
Once you start “bulking”, starting at maintenance is fine, but don’t jump in increments of 500kcal in a week, that’s asking for trouble since you used to be a lot larger and will be more prone to gain the fat back. 200kcal a week is what I’d shoot for - it’s not a race to raise calories - do things slowly with a single goal in mind and you will get there, and gain a better understanding of your body during the journey. If you start gaining weight to fast, try throwing in some light cardio 2-3x a week.
As for cycles ever 8 weeks, since you aim to bulk 8lbs, and then cut 8lbs you’d be running around in circles and just get frustrated with little-to-no progress, as has been mentioned before.
Have your calories above maintenance, but don’t be afraid to raise them up if you are not seeing results. You will gain some fat, maybe even more than what a really skinny person would on a bulk, but lift heavy and you will get there.[/quote]
I’m at maintenance now, but I feel a lot stronger - my lifts are increasing every week. I am very wary of adding more fat, so maybe continuing on maintenance for the rest of this bulk is a good idea. Then I can cut. I’ll monitor things closely for a couple of weeks.
As for my diet, I’ve been on the Anabolic Diet for a few months. If I eat carbs I pile on fat, so the AD works well for me. It also forces me to be disciplined and is high protein too. I record every calorie, gram of fat/protein/carbs I eat every day. This enables me to spot possible problems and tweak my diet easily.
If I gained 8lbs over the 8 weeks, then go on a cut (to lose 8 lbs) then I may be going around in circles. But I was under the impression that if I kept protein high, and kept lifting big, that I could minimise muscle loss. Is this incorrect?
I think this is a bit of an experiment for me. I want to shake my body up, to stop it going into starvation mode as soon as I cut. obviously I’m a newbie and still learning.
Here is your problem. You are planning to fuck up. Dont want to gain a lot of bodyfat, well then STOP PLANNING TO EAT A TON OF SHITTY FOOD.
[quote]elano wrote: Do you guys acutally never go on diets to loose BF?
If not, I want to know step by step what to do to not gain any more bf on my current building phase because I wish I never had to cut calories again.[/quote]
Its not that we NEVER do, we just wait until we have accumulated enough mass to actually mean something after the diet. We find out how much we need to eat to grow, eat that, when we stop growing, we eat a little more, and so on and so forth. Its about constant adjustment and along with other things, it keeps the bodyfat gain at bay. Gaining 40-50 lbs and then cutting off 20 of it makes a hell of a lot more sense than gaining 10 lbs, cutting off 6, and then repeating 7-8 more times. Thats not really a difficult concept is it?
You should eventually start taking in carbs to gain muscle (perhaps another 6 months down the line) once you’ve cut down to a goal weight and been there for a few months.
You sell yourself short but limiting carb intake while trying to add muscle - I’ve been there and done that. You just need carbs from better food sources, plenty protein & cardio with your bulk. The AD work well for me to lose weight, but not as well when I was trying to add muscle.
Shit, run for the hills, BB.com logic is invading the forums.
You know, if we were to delete all the repeat-discussions going on in these forums, there’d be about 20 threads left in bb and 5 in beginners.
Perhaps a handful more in bb relating to news and events, and that’d be it.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
You know, if we were to delete all the repeat-discussions going on in these forums, there’d be about 20 threads left in bb and 5 in beginners.
Perhaps a handful more in bb relating to news and events, and that’d be it.[/quote]
Well, in all honesty there’s only so much that can be said. I know some people just like to hear themselves talk, but once someone has the basics down there’s not much else for them to discuss for several years. Even then, most people who make progress after the first couple of years seem to have a grip on what works best for their body and an understanding of some advanced strategies. This is a simple game in reality. Tons of hard work, but really simple. Not rocket-science. Get your diet right. Ligt heavy shit, repear. It may not be desirable, but it is logical that most of the threads are repeats from newbies who are either A) tryin to get a handle on those basics or B) overthinking things way too much (David1991).
[quote]Professor X wrote:
elano wrote:
Im talking from my experience with bodyfat calipers. I normally start seeing abs around 9 and get very lean looking around 5. Again this is using a caliper measurement and bodyfat % formula.
Is this a joke? You START to get “very lean” at 5% body fat?
[/quote]
You read that wrong, START getting lean around 9. Very lean around 5. This isnt a precise measurement either, this is using a caliper and formula.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
elano wrote:
I am a complete fatass unless I make a conscious effort to watch what I eat.
yeah, im 175lb 6"1 and been lifting for 2 years.
Dude, no you’re NOT. You are nowhere near being a fatass at 175 6’1". You are skinny, maybe skinny-fat, but not at fatass.
Also, no one is suggesting that you “never” cut. Just that cutting everytime you start to make progress will get you nowhere fast.
If you want to gain substantial amounts of muscle mass, then bulk until you reach your desired goal (whatever that may be) and then, decide where you want to go from there. Maybe you still want more mass, so you continue to bulk until you reach your new goal. Maybe you’re satisfied with your new mass, so you decide to cut down to see it more clearly. That was the original concept behind bulking and cutting.
The concept of bulking and cutting cycles is solid, it’s just been misconstrued and misused by people who are obsessed with seeing their abs to mean running around in circles by way of 3 month bulking cycles and 2 month cutting cycles throughout the year.[/quote]
I know I am not fat, skinny, or skinny-fat. I was just saying that If I dont watch what I eat my physique goes to shit. Im ~10% at the moment.
Thanks to the guys who are actually giving useful information to back up their statements.
Let me see if i got the “Basics” on dieting down here…
Start by picking a number you think will give you mass. Well say this is 3000. You eat that # every day, sometimes a little more, never less. You notice the bf creeping up over a few weeks so you cut back a couple hundred cals. It works for a while and all lifts #s go up. Eventually, you go a couple weeks or a month without making any gains on the lifts so you up the cals by 200? Calories comming from clean foods of course and no cheating?
Im guessing its better to judge “gaining” by the lifts going up instead of the scale moving since so many other factors are involved with that right?
Is that how yall are doing it?
[quote]elano wrote:
Professor X wrote:
elano wrote:
Im talking from my experience with bodyfat calipers. I normally start seeing abs around 9 and get very lean looking around 5. Again this is using a caliper measurement and bodyfat % formula.
Is this a joke? You START to get “very lean” at 5% body fat?
You read that wrong, START getting lean around 9. Very lean around 5. This isnt a precise measurement either, this is using a caliper and formula.
Sentoguy wrote:
elano wrote:
I am a complete fatass unless I make a conscious effort to watch what I eat.
yeah, im 175lb 6"1 and been lifting for 2 years.
Dude, no you’re NOT. You are nowhere near being a fatass at 175 6’1". You are skinny, maybe skinny-fat, but not at fatass.
Also, no one is suggesting that you “never” cut. Just that cutting everytime you start to make progress will get you nowhere fast.
If you want to gain substantial amounts of muscle mass, then bulk until you reach your desired goal (whatever that may be) and then, decide where you want to go from there. Maybe you still want more mass, so you continue to bulk until you reach your new goal. Maybe you’re satisfied with your new mass, so you decide to cut down to see it more clearly. That was the original concept behind bulking and cutting.
The concept of bulking and cutting cycles is solid, it’s just been misconstrued and misused by people who are obsessed with seeing their abs to mean running around in circles by way of 3 month bulking cycles and 2 month cutting cycles throughout the year.
I know I am not fat, skinny, or skinny-fat. I was just saying that If I dont watch what I eat my physique goes to shit. Im ~10% at the moment.
Thanks to the guys who are actually giving useful information to back up their statements.
Let me see if i got the “Basics” on dieting down here…
Start by picking a number you think will give you mass. Well say this is 3000. You eat that # every day, sometimes a little more, never less. You notice the bf creeping up over a few weeks so you cut back a couple hundred cals. It works for a while and all lifts #s go up. Eventually, you go a couple weeks or a month without making any gains on the lifts so you up the cals by 200? Calories comming from clean foods of course and no cheating?
Im guessing its better to judge “gaining” by the lifts going up instead of the scale moving since so many other factors are involved with that right?
Is that how yall are doing it?
[/quote]
No. I use the scale and mirror. I do not count calories. I eat fast food WITH clean food. Notice “WITH”. I don’t like eating a lot; a triple whopper will solve that.
I pick a waist size number (I’m 5’6" and the waist size I picked is 36") to not go over. If I do, I do cardio. If that doesn’t solve it, I cut back a bit on food. Once again, I do not count calories. This shit is so simplistic that you don’t need calorie counters, etc.
JUST USE YOUR SCALE AND MIRROR.