I’m only 44 but my cardio in BJJ, I’m a purple belt for life, hasn’t gone down. What has gone down is my recovery. I have found that sparring, especially the dreaded no gi, is almost all the high intensity work I need. Doing stuff like CF just adds to my recovery deficit. I hit the weights at an easy pace and 90% of my running is in the 70% MHR range.
[quote]brotardscience wrote:
[quote]Robert A wrote:
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
there are also different methods of appearing faster to the opponent and ways to nullify an opponent’s speed advantage over you. [/quote]
This is in spades. Plus a liberal portion of being so damn fast/strong when younger that even when bitching about getting old they are still above average.
Regards,
Robert A[/quote]
double quoted for the truf.
It took me a long time to figure out -how not to judge the waning athleticism
based on the 20 year old I once was.
Its hard not to look at things very skewed[/quote]
Some of this I am sure, doesn’t mean it has validity though.LOL
JT - I get the recovery deficit , good point. Robert touched on this earlier, pick your lifts. Just when we finally put it all together and think we know what we are doing father time catches up.
last road work subed 30# pack for 2 miles for the 2 mi run. Working today.
Road work today- felt different like I had more spring in my stride did 3 miles. Some clap PU after and Abd rollouts and back extensions. Tonight first sparring in 5 days due to cold. Going to turn it up a notch and see if they keep up. This protocol seems to be adding speed to sparring tonight will tell a lot.
Thought I would update , I have been sticking close to the protocol above. Seeing some good results. The long warm up and prehab are allowing me to do things I have not done in a long time during the work outs. Feels like I am making headway on the speed. I am going to up the mileage from 6ish to 9miles per week. Sparred against two past opponents last week did 6 rounds with 1 minute breaks. Was really sucking wind. Using those six rounds to measure against moving forward. also started a daily log over in the over thiry five forum and will update here with progress.
I am seeing progress with hand speed, currently attribute it to the effects of the HMWU on the tempo of the workout there after. And since extending prehab a bit I have had no injuries of any type, no pulls tweeks DOMS nothing which is a very good thing for progress. The dynamic portion of the workout means that regardless of the day there is mobilty activation and something dynamic.
[quote]Dude623 wrote:
Looking for some ideas from the older guys here on conditioning. Now in my late forties I am faced for the first time by some issues with slowing down during sparring with the twenty somethings. I don’t want to stop sparring with them ( I don’t think I am a effective coach ) if I am not putting in some rounds with them.
Conditioning wise I need some input on what worked for you to retain your speed. This am I did all core based routine including GHR,SU,adb roll outs,back extensions. Then did some mirror work slipping. I feel that I am missing something fundamental, I feel slow for the first time. There has to be something I could add to that core WO that would make it more geared toward retaining speed. Or something that I should be concentrating on.
A little backround to go on. Last spring I cut out all power lifting and have dropped 30 pounds down to 235, currently filling the strength component with crossfit type WO concentrating on OLY lifts and triple extension functional exercises. And am working on getting to 220. Thanks for your input. [/quote]
You need to work on speed.Sprints,jumps,med ball throws.
I’ve reset my road work for the winter. I’ve increased the treadmill incline to 3 degrees and am going for time rather than distance. I feel this will give me the time needed to develop my aerobic base while keeping the millage down. I have to be careful though keeping the intensity low otherwise the incline will screw up my squatting.
When you say you have to watch the intensity of the running or it will effect your squats what do you mean. What are you seeing as results from this. I have cut my heavy lifting out for six months and trying to get both aerobic and anaerobic thresholds up at the same time and while I don’t mind loseing the strength I don’t want to lose it all. So if you have some specific ideas on what to avoid it would be great. Or even some anecdotal information. Currently I am doing about 9 miles per week, it seems about right, I do two long 3-4 mile runs or pack run and a 1-2 miles as fast as I can each week, times really suck right now but improving. I would like to get my 2 mile down to the 13-14 minute mark if possible while maintaining as much strength as possible. I have no idea how much I will have to sacrifice to get there.
When I was doing a lot of intervals and tempo runs I felt great running but my legs were always tired. Plus I live on the backend of a tiny ski resort so it’s really hilly around my house and running those hills hard is like doing Bulgarian split squats. And the beating on my joints is no doubt effected because after a hard tempo day I limp. Now the limp is not from running, it’s from sitting in a car seat 40 hrs a week for the last twenty years, it does get aggravated. Stew Smith just put out book for guys who have to ace the Ranger 5 mile run and it’s a 26 week build up for those who are already above fifteen miles a week. I was at 35. I went back down to 18 to start the program and the only speed work I do now is strides and a once a week interval day which isn’t in the program but some days I just got to go. So within past three weeks my squat has progressed the best it has all year.
The good thing about running at the 3 degree angle on the treadmill is that it’s fast enough to do the program without being on the thing for an hour. On the long run I either run it outside or just do a 1 degree angle.
I don’t think 9 miles should be effecting you that much and I think you can accommodate that workload pretty fast as long as you don’t force it. That being said 9 miles is on the low side for sub 7 min pace in the two mile. My rule of thumb for the cadets I train is that you should be able to run the PT test twice at the pace you need that way short of a compound fracture you’ll be able to pass it.
If you can do one short interval day, a tempo day and then a long slow day (6miles) I think you’ll get a lot more juice from the squeeze and you can do the interval days on your squat day.
JRT- Thank You for posting, good points. I am going to up the miles to 11 and go with a 6 mile , 2 (2mile) and a interval day. It can’t hurt I am not losing weight like I thought I would. Any intervals that you think would lend itself to what I am doing. I was thinking 100y sprint 100y walk/jog x10.
Sounds good. I like alternating 100m days with 200m days. When you start to get tired call it a day regardless of how many reps you have b in.
Well I have been out for a while and this looks like a good thread for me to be in. There is some great information in here already and I will be reading through it all again. One area I noticed was the running. I am 41 now and I have noticed that I perform better if I take a slightly slower pace but go for longer. I feel like this gives me some extra umph when sparring because my body seems to not be as fast or strong after long sessions or 4-5 rounds of sparring.
I don’t know if I have much to add to this, I am not a S&C guy I have just done trial and error mostly but I will add where I can and certainly take what I can as well.
Thanks
Ranzo- Thanks for looking in , lots of good advise so far. minor set back about ten days ago, had to stop running( I was running in the snow doing a 5 mile and the next day the ankle was so tender I couldn’t bear any weight on it )so no running in the last ten days. I have a log in the O35.
I am seeing some increases in hand speed. I attribute it to many things , the HMWU seems to set the stage for very focused / productive workouts. The plyo day is most definitely having a positive effect.
I have been sparring a lot, with a lot of different people while coaching. Will be kicking it up a notch in the next week or two putting the younger guys through a offensive immersion cycle. Everybody will be sparring minimum of 20 rounds per week , I am going to be hitting the bag for a extra 4 hours per week. At the end of the cycle my guys will be sparring some guys from a MMA gym near us.
Dang, seems like you have a lot of volume in your training. I really feel lazy now. When you say sparring are we talking about standup? and how long are the rounds. We normally do 5 minute rounds and 5 of those really make me tired depending on what all we did before sparring.
Ranzo- there is a lot of volume, that’s just me though. I don’t mind volume, I am in a coaching role so I can relax during those rounds. As far as duration it all depends on what I am trying to get them to do and whether or not they are getting it. If I am trying to bring out a aggressive offense the rounds will be shorter, if I am trying to get them to execute a specific set up and combo they may be shorter yet with trips to the bag on the break. All of our practices are less than 2 hours with the last hour being just sparring.
I do not exceed three minute rounds very often when boxing. Occasionally 5-10 minute rounds are great for conditioning, but are not economical for traning others or small groups. I like to place fighters at a huge disadvantage on defense for short duration. For instance I was running a drill last night where one fighter was allowed to use only his jab and the other was not allowed to use his hands at all to strike or for defense. Evading with only footwork and slipping and shoulder rolls or pushing off with the shoulder, there hands had to remain at hip level.
Well last night everybody was happy with just 1 minute rounds for that drill. Another night we where doing takedown defense in the parking lot , due to the size of the area we went with 5 minute rounds. Knee pads and elbow pads where mandatory obviously. Hope this was clear. Next two weeks will be running practice for a couple of the guys 5 days
yeah I got you, we did drills like that in krav maga quite often. I have to say if you limit your weapons and defense it will make you better for sure.
Ranzo - I also mix up the offence, like give one the elbows and one the hooks. That is always has some entertainment value. They go in circles the first round before they figure it out. With short rounds this can really improve there short range game, just before they lock up , or as they break contact. It is a good filler drill, keeps everybody upbeat.
Just a little update protocol is working good, currently on a 2 week offence cycle that is working well everybody is stepping up a couple levels , three more days to go . Have been sparring full 20-30 minutes a night four times a week. One night I did 5 6minute rounds with a opponent swap halfway. I think my timing is as good as it has ever been . The HMWU is allowing me to work at levels that I had not been pushing in ten years. Also speed is coming back slowly. due to left ankle injury I have only put 4 miles in in the last 7 days, but lots of skipping rope and burpees.
Need some input on making the joint pain go away, currently taking 3-4 fish oil pills per week. Not big on supplements , but if you know of something that really works let me know. The HMWU is allowing me to really cause the joint pain now that I am upping the intensity of my WO’s. All in all this is working, weight/bulk is coming off, speed is coming back. I am thinking that I will take a fight again if it comes up, I plan on making some trips to Lansing and GR and sparring in the Feb.