[quote]jacob-1310 wrote:
Clean will make you explosive from the floor and snatch at the hips? is that correct? [/quote]
what? repeat your question please.
[quote]PB Andy wrote:
[quote]jacob-1310 wrote:
Clean will make you explosive from the floor and snatch at the hips? is that correct? [/quote]
what? repeat your question please.[/quote]
haha yeah I was confused too.
I think he is wondering whether cleans teach you to be explosive from the floor (for deadlifts, presumably) and whether snatches make your hips explosive.
Clean pulls (from the ground to your thighs) are pretty technical. Superficially resembling a deadlift, to be sure, but really quite different… Most people who learn Olympic Weightlifting (from a proper coach) don’t get to lift from the floor until they have developed competency from lifting from the hang (from thigh to rack or overhead).
I wouldn’t bother trying to learn to clean pull, if I were you. Speed deadlifts (lighten the load and lift the weight up as fast as you can with good form) would probably better help you develop power for deadlifting.
The heart of both the clean and the snatch (and probably the jerk, too) is hip drive. Olympic Lifting done properly trains explosive hip drive. There are other ways (that are less technical) that train explosive hip drive, though.
The jury is out… Some people say it isn’t really worth learning the Olympic Lifts. They take too much time to become technically proficient. One is better off doing other (easier) exercises to get the training effect one wants. Other people say that you don’t need to be picky about form and it isn’t that hard to learn them well enough to get good training effect. Meh. I guess I’m more with the first camp. But only because it makes my eyes bleed the way most people do Oly Lifting when they aren’t Oly Lifters. But probably I’m just jealous they muscle around more weight than me…
[quote]alexus wrote:
I think he is wondering whether cleans teach you to be explosive from the floor (for deadlifts, presumably) and whether snatches make your hips explosive.
Clean pulls (from the ground to your thighs) are pretty technical. Superficially resembling a deadlift, to be sure, but really quite different… Most people who learn Olympic Weightlifting (from a proper coach) don’t get to lift from the floor until they have developed competency from lifting from the hang (from thigh to rack or overhead).
I wouldn’t bother trying to learn to clean pull, if I were you. Speed deadlifts (lighten the load and lift the weight up as fast as you can with good form) would probably better help you develop power for deadlifting.
The heart of both the clean and the snatch (and probably the jerk, too) is hip drive. Olympic Lifting done properly trains explosive hip drive. There are other ways (that are less technical) that train explosive hip drive, though.
The jury is out… Some people say it isn’t really worth learning the Olympic Lifts. They take too much time to become technically proficient. One is better off doing other (easier) exercises to get the training effect one wants. Other people say that you don’t need to be picky about form and it isn’t that hard to learn them well enough to get good training effect. Meh. I guess I’m more with the first camp. But only because it makes my eyes bleed the way most people do Oly Lifting when they aren’t Oly Lifters. But probably I’m just jealous they muscle around more weight than me…
[/quote]
that is pretty much what i was asking. Explosive power off the floor will carryover to deadlifts and squats, hip power will carryover to lockouts.
speed deadlifts suck more arse than a gay man seriously. I only deadlift once every month or so because its boring lol. But squats work the same thing. ANYHOW that is again a completely different story.
i just enjoy mixing everything up and olympic lifts seem to be the only thing i havnt tried.
thanks for the answer.
Explosive power off the floor will carryover to deadlifts and squats, hip power will carryover to lockouts.
maybe…
speed deadlifts suck more arse than a gay man seriously.
sometimes the thing we hate the most is what we need to learn to love.
tell us… how is a powerclean (the way you do them) different from a speed deadlift (aside from the whole racking it thing)?
I only deadlift once every month or so because its boring lol.
sounds to me like you aren’t lifting heavy enough weight if you find it boring. are you really a powerlifter???
But squats work the same thing.
mmm hmm. if your goal is to do better at the powerlifts then why don’t you ask the powerlifters over on that forum??
but sure. chucking weight around can be fun for a while. luck.
6/10/11
FS
Bar x 5,5,5
Bar x 5
40x5,5,5
60x5
100x3
130x1
140x1
132 2x2
20min
PS
40x4
60x2
701
80x1
90x1
92x0
92x1
95x0
95x0
85 2x2
2 hours lunch
PC&J
60x2->someone walked over the platform when I was lifting WTF!!!
100x1
105x1
110x1
115x1
120x1 solid hardly had to dip
125xclean pushed me under
100 3x2 power clean one jerk
15mins
FS
Bar x 5
40x5,5,5
60x5
100x3
130x1
140x1
130 2x2
7/10/11
FS
Bar x 5
40x5,5,5
60x5
100x3
130x1
140x1
130 2x2
PM
Snatch 2 sec pause at knee
40x4
60x2
80x2,2,2
90x1
95x1
100x1 pb
102x0,0,0,0 all damn close
Clean and jerk
80x1
100x1
110x1
120x1
Amazing week of training. Added 5kg to my snatch since the crash and 10kg to my FS, progression is good so far
good progress man. you hit a 125 PC&J??? that’s solid. did you make that 130 C&J yet?
[quote]ape288 wrote:
good progress man. you hit a 125 PC&J??? that’s solid. did you make that 130 C&J yet?[/quote]
Nah man, caught it high but it pushed me under! Will have it in the next few weeks. the 130 jerk is illuding me, clean it 10-15 times missed the jerk every time. If i expend too much energy on a clean the jerk is near on impossible for me! I’ll have it in a comp before the year is out.
well I got sick. great…
oh well. Next comp should be january/feb Gotta hit either 235 or 250 total if I go down to 94kg. 247 or 262 if I’m 105.
Time to squat my ass off and step-by-step learn good technique in clean and jerk. No need to rush it anymore. At least my knees seem to recover faster and faster.
Yay, 4th competition ever and first time that I bombed out. Of course it had to be the snatch. Not that the weight was heavy or that I had pain. I just wasn’t there mentally (=acted like a giant pussy).
C&J was ok, made 85/88/90. Absolutely no problem though imo the first attempt was an obvious pressout. Luckily, the judges were really nice today.
I’m going to work my ass off for the snatch, especially the overhead bottom position needs to be fixed.
[quote]lesfayes wrote:
Yay, 4th competition ever and first time that I bombed out. Of course it had to be the snatch. Not that the weight was heavy or that I had pain. I just wasn’t there mentally (=acted like a giant pussy).
C&J was ok, made 85/88/90. Absolutely no problem though imo the first attempt was an obvious pressout. Luckily, the judges were really nice today.
I’m going to work my ass off for the snatch, especially the overhead bottom position needs to be fixed.[/quote]
I’ve found lately that sprawling my feet out into a slightly wider stance for the catch on the snatch allows me to keep my torso muchhhh more upright and keeps me much more stable. I think it has been a pretty big improvement on my snatch. I used to be pretty shaky in the hole and now I’m not so much anymore. I don’t know what your issue is but maybe that can be helpful lol.
[quote]Ed Ache wrote:
[quote]ape288 wrote:
good progress man. you hit a 125 PC&J??? that’s solid. did you make that 130 C&J yet?[/quote]
Nah man, caught it high but it pushed me under! Will have it in the next few weeks. the 130 jerk is illuding me, clean it 10-15 times missed the jerk every time. If i expend too much energy on a clean the jerk is near on impossible for me! I’ll have it in a comp before the year is out.
[/quote]
That’s strong man. hell I haven’t even cleaned 125 since June lol. Hit a solid 95/120 today. Almost cleaned 123 but the bastard tipped me over.
At the moment I just overthink every attempt I make. Also I don’t finish my second pull and my arms are shaky in the overhead squat position.
9/10/11
Sore-tired-and feeling crap
FS
Bar x 5,5,5,5
40x5,5,5,5,5
60x5
100x3
130x1
140x1
145x1
135 2x2
4 hours
FS
Bar x 5,5,5
60x5
100x3
130x1
142x1
132x2
132x1/0
2hours
Snatch
40x4
60x2
80x2
90x1
100x1 How I did this I dont know
105x0 nearly dropped it on myself like last sunday…head went
PC and J
80x2
100x1
105x1
105x1
105x0 too wrecked. Going home.
trained at my new gym today.
mens oly bar 
felt heavy. and a bit stiff / creaky.
snatches - up to 37.5kg. took a bit of getting used to the bar…
cleans - up to 37.5kg. getting under okay, just weak standing them up (as usual)
power jerk / squat jerk - up to 40kg. not quite locking that out. triples with a lighter weight trying to find a solid catch depth.
it was weird… i’ve only lifted at my old gym. weird not having my bar the platform was different, too. the matting shifts so i need to kick it back and it takes a while to get it all lined up and properly symmetrical (which is of course very important).
there are jerk blocks, though, which is cool. and i guess i’ll be motivated to get stronger since i need to lift 40kg to use the bumpers now (and not 35kg). and… they don’t much like people dropping the greens because they reckon they are a bit flimsy they are a very hard / brittle seeming rubber…
bunch of powerlifters, really. still… guess it means they will help me get stronger.
there were more squat racks than people training today (bet it gets busier in the evenings, though). that was kinda cool.
i think i’ll be alright there 
[quote]alexus wrote:
trained at my new gym today.
mens oly bar
felt heavy. and a bit stiff / creaky.
snatches - up to 37.5kg. took a bit of getting used to the bar…
cleans - up to 37.5kg. getting under okay, just weak standing them up (as usual)
power jerk / squat jerk - up to 40kg. not quite locking that out. triples with a lighter weight trying to find a solid catch depth.
it was weird… i’ve only lifted at my old gym. weird not having my bar the platform was different, too. the matting shifts so i need to kick it back and it takes a while to get it all lined up and properly symmetrical (which is of course very important).
there are jerk blocks, though, which is cool. and i guess i’ll be motivated to get stronger since i need to lift 40kg to use the bumpers now (and not 35kg). and… they don’t much like people dropping the greens because they reckon they are a bit flimsy they are a very hard / brittle seeming rubber…
bunch of powerlifters, really. still… guess it means they will help me get stronger.
there were more squat racks than people training today (bet it gets busier in the evenings, though). that was kinda cool.
i think i’ll be alright there
[/quote]
Why the new place? What was wrong with your old place? Wasn’t your old play an oly club?
11 days out with Uncle doing secret Bulgarian training.
Back to reality on Sunday, jet lag to f0ck
10/10/2011
Dynamic warm ups
FS
bar x 4
bar x 2
60 x 4
110
140
160 felt heavy
150 x2
150 x2
I used the 20, 25 and 15 metal places. I swear they are heavier! I’ll weigh them sometime!
PS
60 felt slow
60 felt fast
60 felt really good
Going to tear it up on Wednesday to see what I have.
Koing
[quote]Koing wrote:
11 days out with Uncle doing secret Bulgarian training.
Back to reality on Sunday, jet lag to f0ck
10/10/2011
Dynamic warm ups
FS
bar x 4
bar x 2
60 x 4
110
140
160 felt heavy
150 x2
150 x2
I used the 20, 25 and 15 metal places. I swear they are heavier! I’ll weigh them sometime!
PS
60 felt slow
60 felt fast
60 felt really good
Going to tear it up on Wednesday to see what I have.
Koing[/quote]
Strong power snatching. Glad you didnt just walk out the 160 
very jealous of your secret bulgarian training!
i didn’t have a club before, koing. you were my coach - remember???
there used to be a club but it kind of disintegrated. i got to train with a women’s competition eleiko bar and some nice bumpers, and got some pointers occasionally from a couple people… but basically trained on my own.
needed to move countries. apparently there is a coach in the vicinity… i’ve tried to contact him but no response… apparently he has been out for a bit with a hernia or something… i’ll keep trying… maybe make the commute out to his gym. hoping i might be able to train there once a week or something… the place where he trains is a commute, though, not feasible for daily training. it is also open only very restricted hours and you are supposed to be a student / tutor at a college to train there (which i am not).
i’ve joined the only gym in the city that has a platform. best i could do.
i figure they might be really good for helping me to get stronger (which is much needed). and there is a platform, at least. and a Really Very Decent sound system
[quote]alexus wrote:
very jealous of your secret bulgarian training!
i didn’t have a club before, koing. you were my coach - remember???
there used to be a club but it kind of disintegrated. i got to train with a women’s competition eleiko bar and some nice bumpers, and got some pointers occasionally from a couple people… but basically trained on my own.
needed to move countries. apparently there is a coach in the vicinity… i’ve tried to contact him but no response… apparently he has been out for a bit with a hernia or something… i’ll keep trying… maybe make the commute out to his gym. hoping i might be able to train there once a week or something… the place where he trains is a commute, though, not feasible for daily training. it is also open only very restricted hours and you are supposed to be a student / tutor at a college to train there (which i am not).
i’ve joined the only gym in the city that has a platform. best i could do.
i figure they might be really good for helping me to get stronger (which is much needed). and there is a platform, at least. and a Really Very Decent sound system :-)[/quote]
that’s a sweet ass gym
[quote]GqArtguy wrote:
[quote]Koing wrote:
11 days out with Uncle doing secret Bulgarian training.
Back to reality on Sunday, jet lag to f0ck
10/10/2011
Dynamic warm ups
FS
bar x 4
bar x 2
60 x 4
110
140
160 felt heavy
150 x2
150 x2
I used the 20, 25 and 15 metal places. I swear they are heavier! I’ll weigh them sometime!
PS
60 felt slow
60 felt fast
60 felt really good
Going to tear it up on Wednesday to see what I have.
Koing[/quote]
Strong power snatching. Glad you didnt just walk out the 160 :P[/quote]
lol you MOFO!!! Not everyone has a JACKED FS like you mate. Heal up and I’ll rock over sometime and we all can battle some more 
[quote]alexus wrote:
very jealous of your secret bulgarian training!
i didn’t have a club before, koing. you were my coach - remember???
there used to be a club but it kind of disintegrated. i got to train with a women’s competition eleiko bar and some nice bumpers, and got some pointers occasionally from a couple people… but basically trained on my own.
needed to move countries. apparently there is a coach in the vicinity… i’ve tried to contact him but no response… apparently he has been out for a bit with a hernia or something… i’ll keep trying… maybe make the commute out to his gym. hoping i might be able to train there once a week or something… the place where he trains is a commute, though, not feasible for daily training. it is also open only very restricted hours and you are supposed to be a student / tutor at a college to train there (which i am not).
i’ve joined the only gym in the city that has a platform. best i could do.
i figure they might be really good for helping me to get stronger (which is much needed). and there is a platform, at least. and a Really Very Decent sound system :-)[/quote]
Got you Alexus. Try the coach some more. Some people are a bit pants with getting back to people. I had PM’s going back weeks or months…You got a platform and the new place so just keep going at it. It will come together.
Koing