[quote]Koing wrote:
If the worlds best coach told you to not do pin squats would you bother doing pin squats even if you had success with it? I would ditch it personally. Seriously mate, learn from others mistakes and don’t make them again. I know I’ve wasted time doing random sh!t that my lifters will not waste due to me telling them what the f0ck the deal is.
Koing[/quote]
You’re damn right I would. This will likely be one of my last posts here, since I only came in to keep myself motivated to post better numbers, not to be ambushed regarding my programming. From my perspective, there is merit to do more than just front squat (gasp!). Peace out.
[/quote]
Blanket statements about only doing front squats are difficult to accept for a multitude of reasons. Making an exhaustive list of them would be impossible, but to note a few, as it appears to me anyway:
1). The bulgarians back squatted, as can be seen in numerous Ironmind videos.
2). Lifters who have trained extensively under the system - and I understand the ARTguy has/does, with the man himself - ie the cal strength guys, back squat. They also explicitly say that you can only truly understand the system after training under it for a good space of time. Max Aita talks about doing OH squats, pulls, BS and other exercises.
3). Broz and, if you believe him, Krastev, back squatted and continue to do so successfully with his lifters.
4). Plenty of nations other than Bulgaria have been extremely successful in weightlifting using different systems and many different exercises.
If you want to debate those points then fine. Its admirable that you have found something that you believe in so much and I am sure that your belief will lead you to some results. There is no need to try and force it onto other people though.
[quote]debraD wrote:
Koing, I dreamt I was in London and I trained with you and your bros. F0cking smash it![/quote]
lol love it.
Well if your in London let me know. We can do some training
Koing[/quote]
I’m going to be in Scotland for a bit in the September but I don’t know what my mom has planned for me but if I’m going to be there I will let you know.
I thought you were going to have that 152.5kg C&J because the clean went up so nicely and the other jerks looked so good![/quote]
Cool, let me know.
I followed myself twice on the 147.5 so I had a max of 2mins, so I probably took 110seconds if not 100 or so, so it just felt heavy for the Jerk and it was a lame attempt. I could have probably Cleaned 155, 160 be gut busting. I just need more Jerking practice. I’ve modified my routine so that I am going to only Sn 2x a week and CJ 3-4x a week and twice on the Monday session. Sn needs less work, need to work on the Jerks.
I was surprised at how the 147.5kg went up. I had been having a nightmare (missed at 140, 135, 136 loads) over the the past 3 weeks CJ as can be seen in my training log.
[quote]Koing wrote:
If the worlds best coach told you to not do pin squats would you bother doing pin squats even if you had success with it? I would ditch it personally. Seriously mate, learn from others mistakes and don’t make them again. I know I’ve wasted time doing random sh!t that my lifters will not waste due to me telling them what the f0ck the deal is.[/quote]
When youre CJ PR is 93kg, anything works, doesnt mean that its optimal. Not everyone will listen, so if they want to learn the hard way, so be it.
[/quote]
Indeed mate, indeed.
If I had only gotten the f0cking memo to do what I do now about 2yrs ago when WOODHOUSE suggested it…
[quote]tork94 wrote:
I dont know why all you guys are giving 1llusion such a hard time about back squats.
Yes front squat are MORE important, but their are plenty of world class Weightlifters who back squat on a regular basis. Back squats are in most soviet programs just as much if not more then front squats and the Russians seem to be doing pretty well dont they, same thing goes for the Chinese. Hell even Abajeiv had some of his lifter do back squats, same thing goes with john broz and glen pendlay who both follow a version of the Bulgarian program.
If you could only do one, then front squats are the clear choice, but back squats are much easier for anyone who needs to do a high amount of volume to develop the lower body/posterior chain because more reps can be done with strict form sense the upper back is not as much of limiting factor. [/quote]
I’m really refering to the pin squats and the 10-20seconds negatives…who does this? Sorry I should have made it clearer. My main issue is of the pin squats and 10-20second negatives, not of the back squats. Just do regular squats.
Sorry I don’t care about certs etc. When you can lift proficiently or not even that, when you can coach proficiently lifters to a standard then that is all that matters to me. As a coach your talent is directly related to your lifters technique and your ability to fix it. Or to coach yourself.
This is a point of discussion. Take it or leave it mate. That is up to you.
[quote]Dave284 wrote:
Blanket statements about only doing front squats are difficult to accept for a multitude of reasons. Making an exhaustive list of them would be impossible, but to note a few, as it appears to me anyway:
1). The bulgarians back squatted, as can be seen in numerous Ironmind videos.
2). Lifters who have trained extensively under the system - and I understand the ARTguy has/does, with the man himself - ie the cal strength guys, back squat. They also explicitly say that you can only truly understand the system after training under it for a good space of time. Max Aita talks about doing OH squats, pulls, BS and other exercises.
3). Broz and, if you believe him, Krastev, back squatted and continue to do so successfully with his lifters.
4). Plenty of nations other than Bulgaria have been extremely successful in weightlifting using different systems and many different exercises.
If you want to debate those points then fine. Its admirable that you have found something that you believe in so much and I am sure that your belief will lead you to some results. There is no need to try and force it onto other people though.
[/quote]
No it’s not. People blindlly believe Religion, so why not just listen to what others say about front squats?
I trained with Uncle for a week. He did not have me back squat ONCE out of the 13 sessions I did. NOT ONCE. His system is evoling and his system now is not what it was back at the start of his training programme. It was very experimental in the early stages and he has continued to refine it further, as any good coach would. Sure training with Uncle for a week isn’t a whole lot of time but it’s 50hrs more then most people here and it was first hand coaching, not second hand or what this person wrote or read online. I was in the gym with Uncle.
Yes they did,
The Cal Strength guys do not train under The System. They train under Glenns system. Max was not probably commenting on a Bulgarian lifter doing OHS. OHS have their place for a beginner. Uncle would not have you do OH in any shape or form mate, pulls if your injured your hand, bs if you injured your hand. He won’t make you FS if yoru hand is busted.
Broz is his own system.
Completely agree
I didn’t force him. I just told him to just FS daily.
[quote]alexus wrote:
we usually get some pretty good discussions going on in this forum.
don’t go just because you want to do something that others might not think is best…
i’m currently doing starting strength trying to get my low bar back squat up. maybe it won’t help my cleans. other people don’t think it will help my cleans. pretty sure koing thinks it won’t help my cleans :-p
but i have an idea that it might just… (by teaching me hip drive that hopefully might then carry over to my front squat and eventually my cleans).
maybe i’m hopelessly misguided… but, whatever.
each of us needs to walk our own path. and it isn’t like any of us are doing this for a living or whatever.
but people will call you out if they disagree. and… isn’t that a good thing? a good way to get other perspectives so one can come to a more informed choice.
peace to you, too.[/quote]
I’d probably do more volume on the squats front and back as long as you can stay upright your good to go.
FS 3rep x 3-5sets
BS 3reps x 3-5sets
Start and at the end of the session. Lift inbetween. I still firmly believe that if you add another 10-15-20-kg on to your FS you will Sn and CJ A LOT BETTER. You are pushing absolute limits of your basic strength so the lifts are really tough for you but you make them so thats good.
How is Starting Strength going? Getting stronger overall for you will help you out a lot. No debating that imo. Then get back on The System
[quote]Dave284 wrote:
In an interview on youtube, Max stated than Uncle made him do OH squat and pulls for up to 10 reps. Its all on youtube. [/quote]
Different stages in training. Uncles training at the beginning was VASTLY different to what it is now.
A few experimental exercises does not change the core of The System. And granted my week does not make me a master or anything and no one will ever know the full extent of the System unlessed you lived and trained it.
But you have to be sh!tting me if you think uncle would have his lifters do OHS and pulls for 10’s as per the norm of their training.
yep! 5kg. And the clean(which I was having trouble with) still felt rather easy.
I will try 115 in a couple weeks!
Basically I front squatted 110 for multiple 5s, so good thing I can c&j 110. Lets see if when I’m doing 120 for 5’s I can c&j 120.
tomorrow depending on how well my knees feel it will either be light weights+front squats or (and more likely) multiple singles at ~90% trying to make the reps easier and easier. In the jerk I got a good dip and drive, now I need to improve my catch. On the snatch I need to project and catch the bar in a better way. Basically need to make the catch in the snatch effortless
[quote]Dave284 wrote:
In an interview on youtube, Max stated than Uncle made him do OH squat and pulls for up to 10 reps. Its all on youtube. [/quote]
He also says he did that because he was hurt. Abadjiev’s early system (like late 60’s) had much higher rep work on assistance movements but still to maximum. Hes ditched that as well as back squats over time. Yes the Bulgarian dvd has back squats but thats more than 10 years old and hes evolved since then, just as the Russians have evolved since Medveyev’s programming.
[quote]Dave284 wrote:
In an interview on youtube, Max stated than Uncle made him do OH squat and pulls for up to 10 reps. Its all on youtube. [/quote]
He also says he did that because he was hurt. Abadjiev’s early system (like late 60’s) had much higher rep work on assistance movements but still to maximum. Hes ditched that as well as back squats over time. Yes the Bulgarian dvd has back squats but thats more than 10 years old and hes evolved since then, just as the Russians have evolved since Medveyev’s programming.[/quote]
The point I was trying to make was that he adapts his program to the lifter, with the intention of moving towards his classic fs/sn/cj model. Either way, I defer to greater experience. My point remains however, that just front squatting isnt THE way, its A way.
[quote]lordstorm88 wrote:
yep! 5kg. And the clean(which I was having trouble with) still felt rather easy.
I will try 115 in a couple weeks!
Basically I front squatted 110 for multiple 5s, so good thing I can c&j 110. Lets see if when I’m doing 120 for 5’s I can c&j 120.
tomorrow depending on how well my knees feel it will either be light weights+front squats or (and more likely) multiple singles at ~90% trying to make the reps easier and easier. In the jerk I got a good dip and drive, now I need to improve my catch. On the snatch I need to project and catch the bar in a better way. Basically need to make the catch in the snatch effortless[/quote]
the quad tendon isn’t really giving me any trouble anymore. I expect some very small inflammation now that I’ll be doing a bit too much till the comp, but otherwise its fine. However both knees now hurt at the mid and bottom at the patella.
I’ll have it looked into just to be sure but it definitely goes away with rest but comes back with training. The important thing is that on a 3-4 days per week training I don’t think that it will be getting worse and worse. Stretching the calves seems to have an immediate affect on the pain so I’ll be doing a lot of that.
PS
bar work
60x2
80
90 video
95 no video
100 no video
105 video
Bro was Sn so I thought I’d join in off the cuff
Sn
115x poor attempt felt a sh!t tonne off the floor, didn’t finish through, jumped back, bar di dn’t move
115x better, should have had it but swung
115x should have had this, over pull
120 booyah! stuck it, bit shaky but held it under controlled, warm ups done
121 booyah! Slick, felt really good, my best 121 ever
123 booyah! felt really slick, sharp, fast, caught the bounce on the recovery, nice
128x not quite
128x not quite
I’m sure I could nail 128 on a good day with more recovery after a comp
PC
105
105
PC&PJ
105
120
125
130 only PC
133 only PC
Clean
140
145
153
Done
Some older videos I hadn’t gotten around to uploading
128 missed it about 6x, again this was 2 days after I did the 127.5kg, the last 2 lifts are 120 from about 2 weeks and a week ago respectively.
Pretty happy with that, 147 is a PB. Would have been nice to get 140 for some doubles but got chatting. PM session was tough, weights felt heavy and me tired. Not enough carbs I dont think!
Power clean and split jerk
60x2
80x2
100x1
110x1
120x1 5kg pb, stuck ther jerk
120xpc missed the jerk because my back foot slipped out, fought for it though
10mins
FS
70x3
120x1
130x1
140x1
125x4
125x2
Cant seem to set my right shoulder properly since the crash. hard to explain but recieving snatches is difficult. Hopefully more physio will fix this. Happy with the power cleans though. I love what front squatting 8-10x weekly is doing for my lifting!
Mwah haha… I don’t think you guys remember all my questions about ‘why do you back squat’ and ‘how do you think it helps your Olympic Lifting?’ A simple search in the archives will suffice. I frigging Told You So. And only now are people starting to come around to the idea that back squatting might be a waste of time. Since people with a hell of a lot more credibility than me are suggesting it… Though I initially got the idea off a random website, tis true…
:-p
[quote]Koing wrote:
I still firmly believe that if you add another 10-15-20-kg on to your FS you will Sn and CJ A LOT BETTER. You are pushing absolute limits of your basic strength so the lifts are really tough for you but you make them so thats good.
How is Starting Strength going? Getting stronger overall for you will help you out a lot. No debating that imo. Then get back on The System
Koing[/quote]
Yep, I believe you, too. Unfortunately, my front squat seemed to have stalled, though. Didn’t make it past the 4x4 on the RSR. I’ve learned… That I’m not hip driving optimally. Partly because of my lack of ankle dorsiflexion (that I’m constantly working on improving). And partly because… Chicks do seem to have a problem with driving their knees out properly (perhaps because they naturally want a slightly wider stance given pelvis width which requires more of driving the knees out - and also greater relative femur length). I’ve got myself some micro-bands that I’m putting around my knees so I learn to drive them out really hard. I think that SS back squat program (3x a week) will help teach me hip drive and I’m hoping that applying that to my front squat / clean will help my Oly Lifting.
My (poor) front squat is limiting my Oly Lifting. But my front squat stalled… I think SS is going okay. I’m doing very small weight increases (1kg or 0.5kg depending on the weights - e.g., 0, 1kg, 2kg, 2.5kg, 3.5kg, 4.5kg, 5kg etc). Working really hard on perfecting form (with an eye to Oly lifting). Those weight increases aren’t trivial given my 1Rm for front squat. I should get linear increases so I’m repping bodyweight. Dammit. I will.
I frigging LOVE to bench. Seriously. Why didn’t I discover this before. Benching <3
Once I’m repping bodyweight low bar back squats It will be time to bring my front squat (and then my clean) up to match it. For sure.
Good days training today. I’ve never lited with straps though and couldnt get used to them at all so binned off the rest of power snatches. I have a monster blood blister on my thumb so hook grip kills. Ah well
power snatch up to 85, missed it out front first time, 2nd time got it
power c&j up to 100
I guess those are PRs since I’ve never maxed out on power stuff. I was a bit surprised with the power snatch. I expected 80, not 85. I also probably could do 102.5 or 105 in the clean but I didn’t bother to attempt it. Maybe another time.
I just said on my previous post that my knee isn’t giving me trouble only to have it come up today. The tendon is hurting a bit again so I won’t lift tomorrow and basically do one more oly session and one squat session before the break for ~6 days. I really don’t wanna be injured again for 6 months.
F0cking smash it![/quote]
