I have always made terrible progress on my OH press compared to everything else. I ran through an 8 week program which I am going to do again and saw some pretty good results, but my OH press still lags.
I noticed that my sticking point is oddly right in the middle of the lift. I usually go down to my collar bone or mid-neck then press, but get stuck once my elbows are about 90 degrees (or the bar is at about level with the top of my forehead. If I can power through that mid-point I find I can easily lock-out.
[quote]Aero51 wrote:
I noticed that my sticking point is oddly right in the middle of the lift.[/quote]
That’s not odd, most sticking points are at 90 degrees of flexion.
If I understand you correctly, I think this is pretty much the normal sticking point for a strict press. The weight sort of gets out in front of you and the trick is to get your head through.
I have found that doing speed work can help. Use 40-70%. Start each rep from a dead stop on the chest and just really focus on pushing as fast as you can and getting your head through as soon as the bar passes your head.
To be totally honest, the easiest fix could be learning new techniques. I see way too many guys asking for overhead advice, when it’s the most simplest lift. If you have a sticking point with push press, learn to push jerk. If you aren’t getting enough over your head as you wish you could be, then learn to SPLIT jerk. Jerks almost totally remove a sticking point that would otherwise be present in a static movement like a strict or push press. In strongman, the bar is raising higher for how much you can log and axle press. There are athletes who have mastered the jerk, and 220 and UNDER LW’s are finding ways to put 380lb logs over their heads.
Programming might be a better option if your deadlift or squat is stuck, but not your overhead.
As others have said, make sure you’re pushing up and back, and getting your head through. Also give Z presses a try
[quote]strongmanvinny wrote:
There are athletes who have mastered the jerk, and 220 and UNDER LW’s are finding ways to put 380lb logs over their heads. [/quote]
I’m only aware of Carlos doing that once, over two years ago, and seeing as he doesnt actively compete in strongman any more, I wouldn’t say this is particularly relevant. A 330 max in the ams will put you toward the top of almost any log event, and as long as your max is 280+ you’re not going to be embarrassed
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
As others have said, make sure you’re pushing up and back, and getting your head through. Also give Z presses a try
[quote]strongmanvinny wrote:
There are athletes who have mastered the jerk, and 220 and UNDER LW’s are finding ways to put 380lb logs over their heads. [/quote]
I’m only aware of Carlos doing that once, over two years ago, and seeing as he doesnt actively compete in strongman any more, I wouldn’t say this is particularly relevant. A 330 max in the ams will put you toward the top of almost any log event, and as long as your max is 280+ you’re not going to be embarrassed
[/quote]
If it was done once, it can be done twice. The bar is always rising. Though you are right, Carlos’ 380 is one of a kind, it does not make my point any less pertinent. Everybody should try to hone their pressing technique.
Are we talking about what CAN physically, possibly be done, or what is actually happening in literally 100% of contests (since Carlos’ was in training)? I don’t see what you gain by pointing to one example that is so far outside the norm
Vinny, I’m not sure what your point is here. “Just split jerk it” is not a catch all solution. And if it was, that would make overhead more complicated. Learning to split jerk well is not simple.
A lot of people that jerk in competition still have strict pressing (or push pressing) as a significant part of their training. And generally if you can improve your strict press you’ll improve competition performance no matter your style.
We hoi polloi that haven’t ever put double bodyweight overhead still need a program to train.
I think I’d be totally wrong in claiming the split jerk is the gospel lol. Just a push jerk. Simple, effective, and usually grants immediate overhead increase. The Carlos example was just to augment my point in that your press isn’t compromised if your triceps lag or some shit.
I’ll just save face saying I train strict press more than I train push jerk. ALOT more too. However I must continue standing by my belief that your technique on overhead outweighs your static strength/program. Obviously train the hell out of all parameters, but I have gleaned the best results from honing technique.
Vinny, I think that’s clearer now that you put it that way. It just seemed like you were advocating ignoring strict pressing and just learning new techniques and that didn’t seem consistent with what lots of strong people do. Lately, I’ve been trying to learn to push jerk better. Sometimes when the weight gets heavy I revert to push pressing though. Any thoughts on that?
[quote]Silyak wrote:
Vinny, I think that’s clearer now that you put it that way. It just seemed like you were advocating ignoring strict pressing and just learning new techniques and that didn’t seem consistent with what lots of strong people do. Lately, I’ve been trying to learn to push jerk better. Sometimes when the weight gets heavy I revert to push pressing though. Any thoughts on that?[/quote]
You might need to build some confidence with heavier weights. Advice would be to hit multiple sets with a weight that is heavy enough to get some work in, but light enough to where you have completely confidence. I have the same issue, but with split jerks. I can split jerk comfortably until I begin getting near my max push jerk and I just want to do anything BUT a split.
Thanks. You’re probably right that it’s a confidence thing. With moderate weights I can push jerk and it will fly up. When it’s heavy, it’s like my body just says, no, I don’t want to drop under that.
Thanks for the help. For some reason my shoulders and arms are embarrassingly weak (and small) compared to everything else. I don’t want to mislead anyone, I am not a strongman competitor myself nor am I strong enough to compete (maybe in a year I will be, but right now my squat max is somewhere between 315 and 350). With that said, strongman-type lifting is my favorite type of lifting. Especially a big fan of Farmers walks and weighted carries in general. My build is pretty stalky - I am 5’9" and heavy for my build.
Right now my training regiment is basically 8x8 with 1 minute rest periods between 60-70% of my 1RM. My next phase (4 weeks or so depending on how I progress) will be 10x5 at 80-90% of my 1RM. I have found high volume training works very well for me.
Strange thing, during my last 10x5 I was doing Arnold presses and was using weights in the ball-park of 70lbs each hand (dumbbell touches collar bone all the way to lockout). When I went to do 8x8 for OH press using the barbell, I could barely complete it with 95lbs.
I workout around 6:30am in the morning before I go to work. I found by doing this that I cant push myself as much (when I was using Arnold Presses I was working out at 2 in the afternoon when I was unemployed), but at the same time the morning workout really helps keep my mood elevated and my energy levels high until about 2pm. I dont know if adding additional workouts would be the best solution to improve my shoulders since I already do high volume training and I dont each much before I work out (my stomach is pretty sensitive in the AM - no fruit, no sugar, no fat, all I can eat are bran type things like “Raisin Bran” or “Total”).
If high volume is not producing what your looking for then start going heavier. Switch to 5x5 for your shoulders with slightly longer rest times. Every 3rd or 4th week take a max 3-5 and really push the shit. You sound alot like me a year ago or so I’m 5’7 and heavy for my height with small arms compared. Your missing where your triceps should be taking over. Start hammering them. Seriously. Over a year ago I stop strongman for PLing with a max Axle clean and press of 250 for 2. After a year of crushing my triceps with heavy ass board presses, close grip presses, and using a sling shot and bands I decided to just screw around and hit a 280 axle clean and press. 30 pounds PR with out doing any push pressing or OHP at all. Then right back to hammering triceps and 2 months later (last night) smashed 300 axle clean and press once again with absolutely no OHP work.
Try something like this:
Incline Press: 5x5
Board or Sling Shot up to a max 5,3, or 1
Lat Vertical Pull: 5 sets of 8-15
Tricep DB Extensions: 4 sets of 12-15
Triceps Pressdown: 4 sets of 12-15
Day 2: Press Volume
Do what you normally do on presses 8x8 more for conditioning switch between strict and push work.
Hammer your triceps small triceps mean small arms all that equal weak lockouts on strict and push work.
Alternatively get damn good at using your legs and learn to Jerk.
Well, for now for my bench pressing day I am trying out inclined arnold presses. The incline is very slight, maybe 1 pin at the most. Do you think that would help my shoulders as well? I will take your advice and add a day focused on arms and shoulders. My current spit is:
[quote]Aero51 wrote:
Well, for now for my bench pressing day I am trying out inclined arnold presses. The incline is very slight, maybe 1 pin at the most. Do you think that would help my shoulders as well? I will take your advice and add a day focused on arms and shoulders. My current spit is:
Weds
8x8 Incline Arnold Press
8x8 Standing Cable Rows (cant do 8x8 with bent over rows and using dumbbells makes rest periods too long)
Fri
8x8 OH Press
8x8 Lat Pulldown
I can easily work in something on Tuesday and Thursday. I am time limited to about 1 hour since I like to start work by 730 to 745 at the latest.
What would you recommend?[/quote]
Monday- Heavy Squat and Deadlift
Tuesday- Incline day I listed. Only do one triceps move to cut time.
Thursday-Front Squat moving events you have listed.
Friday- Volume day I listed with a triceps movement and lat movement.
Obviously adjust how ever needed for schedule but this how I’d set it up for in the off season just trying to get stronger all around.