[quote]SavagedNatiion wrote: @Quasitech
Thanks brother. Its good to be back on T Nation.[/quote]
You sure your not man the resemblance is rediculos. [/quote]
6-15 was short (and considerably chubbier looking that SN)
Savage is 6’3+ I thought?[/quote]
Yeah 6’3.5- 6’4. Probably 6’7 in heels.
At 280 these days.[/quote]
He was thinking you were Lewhitehurst…you know…because we all look the same.
Either way, good work on getting huge and keep contributing. [/quote]
Just to point out its you making an inflammatory comment…so when your own thread blows up again don’t start whinning please
Can’t we stay on just the OP and post pics and talk about him?
I like travelling to different bodybuilding forums and seeing different threads, searching for value. The comment of strength versus mass came up on a harcore forum I like. Good points were made.
Genetics (aren’t they a bitch) can quite easily dictate whether you stay small and get “strong like bull” or as you gain strength you similarly and almost linearly gain mass. Even some guys can gain mass that isn’t well represented by their numbers. For many of these guys, they’ve reached weights that are incredibly impressive, and instead of forging forward and risking injury, they are trying to find other methods to continue to add mass.
Short rests, more volume, changing exercises, etc. all spur more growth. Obviously you can’t do that with a 135lb bench and expect to make better gains than if you got your bench to 225lbs, but at some point you have to make that decision of “ok I’ve got some serious strength, which isn’t my goal, now how do I abuse my muscle into growth with all this strength?”
When trying to focus on longevity in this sport, and as we all age, it becomes more about how you move the weight than how much weight you’re moving. As young bucks though, its important to keep this in mind, but adding poundage to the bar will add poundage to your physique. I imagine this is what the pro’s have to consider and separates the guys with torn ‘x’ or ‘y’ with the guys who make it through their career intact.
[quote]SavagedNatiion wrote: @Quasitech
Thanks brother. Its good to be back on T Nation.[/quote]
You sure your not man the resemblance is rediculos. [/quote]
6-15 was short (and considerably chubbier looking that SN)
Savage is 6’3+ I thought?[/quote]
Yeah 6’3.5- 6’4. Probably 6’7 in heels.
At 280 these days.[/quote]
He was thinking you were Lewhitehurst…you know…because we all look the same.
Either way, good work on getting huge and keep contributing. [/quote]
Just to point out its you making an inflammatory comment…so when your own thread blows up again don’t start whinning please
Can’t we stay on just the OP and post pics and talk about him?[/quote]
When he makes posts like this I laugh to myself because of all the times that he has tried to claim that I try and derail threads or start shit. He’s just allowed to say whatever ignorant and inflammatory things he wants, though. Not to mention, how great it is that he only ever gives the “head nod” to people who agree with him. “Oh, looking huge.” “Nice work on getting big.” If you argue his points, though, you’re not worthy. Also, it seems like he makes it more about race than anyone else.
[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
I like travelling to different bodybuilding forums and seeing different threads, searching for value. The comment of strength versus mass came up on a harcore forum I like. Good points were made.
Genetics (aren’t they a bitch) can quite easily dictate whether you stay small and get “strong like bull” or as you gain strength you similarly and almost linearly gain mass. Even some guys can gain mass that isn’t well represented by their numbers. For many of these guys, they’ve reached weights that are incredibly impressive, and instead of forging forward and risking injury, they are trying to find other methods to continue to add mass.
Short rests, more volume, changing exercises, etc. all spur more growth. Obviously you can’t do that with a 135lb bench and expect to make better gains than if you got your bench to 225lbs, but at some point you have to make that decision of “ok I’ve got some serious strength, which isn’t my goal, now how do I abuse my muscle into growth with all this strength?”
When trying to focus on longevity in this sport, and as we all age, it becomes more about how you move the weight than how much weight you’re moving. As young bucks though, its important to keep this in mind, but adding poundage to the bar will add poundage to your physique. I imagine this is what the pro’s have to consider and separates the guys with torn ‘x’ or ‘y’ with the guys who make it through their career intact.[/quote]
Very good post! Pretty much the perfect way to say: start with a solid foundation to build on.
[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
For many of these guys, they’ve reached weights that are incredibly impressive, and instead of forging forward and risking injury, they are trying to find other methods to continue to add mass.
[/quote]
Along with the rest, this point stands out. I have done that with biceps. They gained strength pretty fast to the pint I was using a lot of weight but most of the people I knew who had done that much or more had also seen a biceps tear. Not to mention that many pros are able to maintain inhuman size on their arms without necessarily using the most weight ever to get there.
Being able to play with 60lbs can create more progress than struggling with 100+lbs in some areas…especially when risk of injury is at hand.
This activity favors those that find what works within the least range of stress to the overall system.
That is why the guy buzzing around the gym possibly putting up the most weight may be the worst developed guy in the gym.
[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
For many of these guys, they’ve reached weights that are incredibly impressive, and instead of forging forward and risking injury, they are trying to find other methods to continue to add mass.
[/quote]
Along with the rest, this point stands out. I have done that with biceps. They gained strength pretty fast to the pint I was using a lot of weight but most of the people I knew who had done that much or more had also seen a biceps tear. Not to mention that many pros are able to maintain inhuman size on their arms without necessarily using the most weight ever to get there.
Being able to play with 60lbs can create more progress than struggling with 100+lbs in some areas…especially when risk of injury is at hand.
This activity favors those that find what works within the least range of stress to the overall system.
That is why the guy buzzing around the gym possibly putting up the most weight may be the worst developed guy in the gym.[/quote]
Agree with you 100% and learned this the hard way. Used to have a very respectable bench, maybe my best lift yet my chest development was embarressing. After 2 torn pecs in a year, and over a year removed from recovery they are a strength despite using half the weight I used to train with.
So what then do you folks feel is the base amount of strength a trainee should have before moving up into higher rep ranges? Not looking for a black and white answer, just opinions on the big lifts relative to body weight.
If you can’t multiply your Squat/Dead by 2.25/2.5 and your bench by 1.75/1.9 then I’d say you still need to build strength. Once you get there, you have a lot of strength to play with, and all those concentration/isolated movements you used to use say 10-15lbs with, have now doubled or tripled without training them, because you added strength by focusing on compound movements.
I’d say those are good starting/reference points, but its a guess. All big guys are at least somewhat strong. By somewhat I mean they are impressive in your average gym and respectable in a hardcore setting. I watched Kai squat 6 plates last night for I think 3-4 reps back in 2010 2 weeks out from the Arnold Classic - that’s on a deficit and cutting for a show, and 6 plates. Yea, he weighs close to 300lbs, so 2x bodyweight, but he got there because he lifted heavy, just that he now does volume with that impressive weight.
I’d think someone who can put up those numbers has something solid to work with. Once you’ve played with that strength, decide if you want to push further. And there’s nothing wrong with changing program from bodybuilding to strength related, back to bodybuilding, its all stimulus and will all cause you to grow.
Edit: As a bodybuilder, or with a bodybuilding focus, you don’t necessarily have to do the above exercises, they may not work for you. You may be better suited for Decline or something, or say Leg Press instead of Squats (I don’t care personally, if you build more muscle with Leg Press, do Leg Press), but point stands that whether you focus on it or not, you will gain strength and at some point you’ll realize going for ‘x’ more poundage to get results is approaching stupid levels when you could just as easily change your program for more volume and get equal or better results with less risk of injury.
[quote]SavagedNatiion wrote: @Quasitech
Thanks brother. Its good to be back on T Nation.[/quote]
You sure your not man the resemblance is rediculos. [/quote]
6-15 was short (and considerably chubbier looking that SN)
Savage is 6’3+ I thought?[/quote]
Yeah 6’3.5- 6’4. Probably 6’7 in heels.
At 280 these days.[/quote]
He was thinking you were Lewhitehurst…you know…because we all look the same.
Either way, good work on getting huge and keep contributing. [/quote]
wtf so now i cant say to black people look very similar without being racist?
you derail your own threads… with stupid fucking arrogant statements like these, so you know what fuck you.
Look at what happened in Off-topic, X made comments and all of a sudden dozens of meme’s with his picture on religious paintings were thrown all over the place - thats common childish / 4-chan internet play. [/quote]
Dude, you claim to be the voice of reason…but when somebody is an asshole to people for 10+ years on a site, and folks just get fed up with it…suddenly they are the bad guys?
You need to do some history here, before you start telling people how to act.[/quote]
this so much.
i happen to think its pathetic that the mods allowed this kind of shit to go on for so long.
where this any other bodybuilding website he would have been banned for trolling or laughed off by other members withing his first year.
its blatantly obvious to anyone that he uses this site as nothing but a way to try and boost his ego and make himself out as some sort of authority on training.
there should be a sub-forum where X is not allowed to post. maybe then we would see more input from knowledgeable members and there would be next to NO arguments. i would personally like to here alot more from people like zraw, stu, brick, RDS, smashing weights, Utah and others who all seem to be more knowledgeable than X and 3 times as humble and respectful.
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
its blatantly obvious to anyone that he uses this site as nothing but a way to try and boost his ego and make himself out as some sort of authority on training.
[/quote]
Yes, but that begs the question why you&co get so mad again and again and again.
Don’t you understand that PX’s single purpose here is to better us as human beings? I find RESISTING to comment on his antics a great tool to develop patience and self-discipline. This self-discipline will then carry over to the kitchen, the gym, and all other aspects of your life. So in fact PX could be the single best contributor on this forum. ha
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
its blatantly obvious to anyone that he uses this site as nothing but a way to try and boost his ego and make himself out as some sort of authority on training.
[/quote]
Don’t you understand that PX’s single purpose here is to better us as human beings?
[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
If you can’t multiply your Squat/Dead by 2.25/2.5 and your bench by 1.75/1.9 then I’d say you still need to build strength. Once you get there, you have a lot of strength to play with, and all those concentration/isolated movements you used to use say 10-15lbs with, have now doubled or tripled without training them, because you added strength by focusing on compound movements.
[/quote]
I think you strength numbers may be a bit high. I like John Meadows numbers he posts in this article, at least if your goal is BB’ing/Physique.
I just think that once you get to a 1-1.25xBW bench or something, there’s no need to keep plugging away at it if you don’t think it’s a good chest builder. Same with Squats and stuff.
I totally agree on there needing to be a base of strength built, definitely. But I think one’s focus can shift from number chasing on a particular lift to something more oriented to there goals with lesser strength then the numbers you suggested. Though I guess you could hit those just to ‘be safe’.
Plus even if someone switched to a more BB’ing oriented workout after hitting only like a 1.25xBW bench, I think they could easily get stronger while then also focusing on smaller isolation stuff, so it’s not like building that base of strength doesn’t still occur.
Awesome find on the article Spidey, I must have missed it during my time away. I will definitely read it. As I said, I’m not expert on the matter, that was me throwing a dart for an estimate at best, heh.
Edit: And you’re correct. I would say that gains while bodybuilding - from a strength perspective - will be slower, but as you train your muscles you will get stronger. Besides, stength as defined in weightlifting is not the same as defined in the real world, meaning you don’t do 5 reps of things in life, but you can carry a couch 200 feet, that’s as much endurance type strength as raw strength. Training the muscles to sustain for longer periods (time under tension) is strength training of its own kind.
