NY Thug Versus Arizona Trucker

DoubleDuce · March 26, 2014, 3:39pm

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]knee-gro wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]knee-gro wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]knee-gro wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:
Well I don’t think it was barbaric. I meant the beating he got was pretty brutal to his pride and head. I mean if it were me - I would have filled him full of .45 caliber hollow points after he swung at me…

I am not going to fistfight anyone. I value my body over some idiot who wants to try and harm me for no reason. So, I will just gladly pull the trigger to avoid bodily harm.[/quote]

Let me get this straight, someone throws a punch at you and deserves to die? Under those same conditions - some single tweeker, while you’re with your buddies? A guy your size.
You need to man the fuck up and stop being an oversized pussy.

I know 'murica is full of backward hicks and has stupid gun laws but if you could legally get away with this then I don’t know what to tell ya. No developed country allows that.[/quote]

What a tool.

Defense laws have nothing to do with deserving to die. If that were the case, you could shoot someone after they had swung at you and then retreated. That of course isn’t the case meaning your claim is ignorant and lacks any real thought.

Defense laws are about law abiding people not having the duty to take injury for the sake of preserving their attackers well being.

There is no death penalty for violently attacking someone. There are sometimes however natural consequences that can include death.

Free men have no duty to provide for the safety of a violent attacker at risk to their own body. You suggesting that he does have a duty and that the law should reflect such is to claim that the government owns his body and has the right to risk his health as it sees fit.

You are the one that is a backwards European know it all with your nose so far up your own ass you walk around claiming everyone else smells like shit.[/quote]

What are you babbling about DoubleDouche, you don’t think shooting that scrawny little man for a girly swing would have been over the top?

Especially for a guy as big as bauber?
[/quote]

Does the guy have a knife? does he have a gun? Does he have aids? No man should be forced to take that risk.

And I was also referring to you ignorant stereotyping bigoted derogatory insults. Are all people in Portugal as much a bigot as you, or should I not file this as a negative reflection on your country and instead as just one idiot.[/quote]

Where do you draw the line?
What if some punk looking kid comes to me and says “hey dude got a lighter”? should I just answer “yeah I got just the thing to light you up” and then shoot him in the kneecap because I don’t want to take risks?
Actually, this sounds kinda cool now that I think about it.

Bottom line is, a punch doesn’t warrant going Frank Castle on someone.
[/quote]

Reductio ad absurdum. I could equally accuse your of forcing me to watch while my wife is raped and murdered because you don’t want the criminal killed. Where do you draw the line man? Why do you want my wife raped and beaten to death?

In reality, drawing a weapon would almost certainly have ended the black guy’s bravado and the fight with no one hurt. It’s why there are different requirements for using deadly force vs. using threat of deadly force. If you get attacked you have the right to use the threat (drawing a weapon).[/quote]

That is an absolutely retarded comparison. Not even remotely the same thing. If some dude takes a swing at you and you immediately draw down him because you can, you have major issues and need to reevaluate your life. [/quote]

It was supposed to be a dumb comparison. I was illustrating the fallacy knee-guy here was using.

And it depends on the situation. It is something basically every cop would do though.

countingbeans · March 26, 2014, 3:41pm

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
That is an absolutely retarded comparison. Not even remotely the same thing. If some dude takes a swing at you and you immediately draw down him because you can, you have major issues and need to reevaluate your life. [/quote]

I disagree completely.

It will be situational dependent. Because I can bring you to some neighborhoods where if you didn’t draw, and expected to be “fine in a fist fight because he is so small” your “life reevaluation” would be as it flashes before your eyes, because your cold dead body will be found the next day where you “man-ed up”.

In fact, I know some grimy motherfuckers that look for people that think like you are here, and others in this thread. MArks. [/quote]

I always get mistaken for an easy mark. Like that time a guy got me utterly hammered, while unbeknownst to me his buddy was waiting outside with a knife. I knew he was being way too generous with those beers.

Too bad that guy brought a knife to a gun fight. Good for both of us that I didn’t have to pull the trigger.
[/quote]

This is all I’m saying. You have to account for your surroundings.

Taking a hard line stance of “a fist fight is just a fist fight” is just as crazy/dangerous/overthetop as saying you would shoot someone instantly upon swinging.

At a frat party? Likely a fist fight. Walking down a back alley at 2am with your chick? Assume at your own risk.

WhiteFlash · March 26, 2014, 3:42pm

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

That is an absolutely retarded comparison. Not even remotely the same thing. If some dude takes a swing at you and you immediately draw down him because you can, you have major issues and need to reevaluate your life. [/quote]

I disagree completely.

It will be situational dependent. Because I can bring you to some neighborhoods where if you didn’t draw, and expected to be “fine in a fist fight because he is so small” your “life reevaluation” would be as it flashes before your eyes, because your cold dead body will be found the next day where you “man-ed up”.

In fact, I know some grimy motherfuckers that look for people that think like you are here, and others in this thread. MArks. [/quote]

Again, not what I said and not what we’re talking about. Having some clown take a swing at you and legitimately being put in a life or death situation are not the same thing. Not even close. You have no idea where I’m from or what I “think like”. When I was 16 I got into a fight with the wrong guy. I layed him out and one of his buddies smashed me in the side of the head with a full bottle of liquor.

5 or 6 of his friends proceeded to beat the shit out of me, pick me up and run me head first into a fire hydrant while I was unconscious. I have 5 fake teeth to show for it. I’ve been stabbed in my hand, shot at multiple times and Bbeen in more violent situations than anyone you know. A fight is still a fight, and drawing on some guy after one random swing when you’re in no real danger is ridiculous.
[/quote]

Like I said: It will be situational dependent.

I’m gald you survived, however, your stories here tend to back up my point. [/quote]

I see what you’re saying, but in the case of the bottle incident, I never saw the guy (or his friends after) coming. Drawing on one guy with his buddy approaching behind you (and a handle of dudes waiting on the sidelines) with what’s essentially a club isn’t gonna help.

countingbeans · March 26, 2014, 3:43pm

[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:

Out of curiosity, in what way is he - as a European - backwards due to stricter gun laws?

[/quote]

Ask the European Jews, that are left, what life is like when the government is the only people that can protect themselves…

You guys lived through this shit a couple times in your history (your governments having total control, the citizens helpless to their violence) and every single fucking time you celebrate giving the government that power over you…

Short answer:
Anti-gun people lack even an elementary understanding of human history and the relationship between government and citizens. In the “information age” this is backwards.
[/quote]

Sure, :D.
[/quote]

Being Scottish, I figured you would actually understand…

countingbeans · March 26, 2014, 3:44pm

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I see what you’re saying, but in the case of the bottle incident, I never saw the guy (or his friends after) coming. Drawing on one guy with his buddy approaching behind you (and a handle of dudes waiting on the sidelines) with what’s essentially a club isn’t gonna help.[/quote]

No, but you’re fucked either way if you’re getting jumped. Just having a gun period in that situation could see it very easily used to shoot you after you are knocked out.

It isn’t an easy black and white issue.

DoubleDuce · March 26, 2014, 3:45pm

[quote]knee-gro wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

Reductio ad absurdum. I could equally accuse your of forcing me to watch while my wife is raped and murdered because you don’t want the criminal killed. Where do you draw the line man? Why do you want my wife raped and beaten to death?

In reality, drawing a weapon would almost certainly have ended the black guy’s bravado and the fight with no one hurt. It’s why there are different requirements for using deadly force vs. using threat of deadly force. If you get attacked you have the right to use the threat (drawing a weapon).[/quote]

I think your wife should have fun but you went off the deep end dude. There’s no point in even having a discussion if you keep going full tard like you just did in that first paragraph of yours.

Word of advice though, never expect to end anything by pulling out a gun. [/quote]

Swing and a miss. The first paragraph was a copy of your argument repeated back to you to illustrate the absurdity. I was mocking you using your own reasoning. I don’t for a second believe that argument because it would be as inane as your post.

Cops do it all the time. What your experience/training/knowledge-base with fire arms?

RATTLEHEAD · March 26, 2014, 3:46pm

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:

Out of curiosity, in what way is he - as a European - backwards due to stricter gun laws?

[/quote]

Ask the European Jews, that are left, what life is like when the government is the only people that can protect themselves…

You guys lived through this shit a couple times in your history (your governments having total control, the citizens helpless to their violence) and every single fucking time you celebrate giving the government that power over you…

Short answer:
Anti-gun people lack even an elementary understanding of human history and the relationship between government and citizens. In the “information age” this is backwards.
[/quote]

Sure, :D.
[/quote]

Being Scottish, I figured you would actually understand… [/quote]

Being Scottish, I remember the Dunblane massacre and the family in my neighbourhood that lost a child.

DoubleDuce · March 26, 2014, 3:47pm

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

That is an absolutely retarded comparison. Not even remotely the same thing. If some dude takes a swing at you and you immediately draw down him because you can, you have major issues and need to reevaluate your life. [/quote]

I disagree completely.

It will be situational dependent. Because I can bring you to some neighborhoods where if you didn’t draw, and expected to be “fine in a fist fight because he is so small” your “life reevaluation” would be as it flashes before your eyes, because your cold dead body will be found the next day where you “man-ed up”.

In fact, I know some grimy motherfuckers that look for people that think like you are here, and others in this thread. MArks. [/quote]

Again, not what I said and not what we’re talking about. Having some clown take a swing at you and legitimately being put in a life or death situation are not the same thing. Not even close. You have no idea where I’m from or what I “think like”. When I was 16 I got into a fight with the wrong guy. I layed him out and one of his buddies smashed me in the side of the head with a full bottle of liquor.

5 or 6 of his friends proceeded to beat the shit out of me, pick me up and run me head first into a fire hydrant while I was unconscious. I have 5 fake teeth to show for it. I’ve been stabbed in my hand, shot at multiple times and Bbeen in more violent situations than anyone you know. A fight is still a fight, and drawing on some guy after one random swing when you’re in no real danger is ridiculous.
[/quote]

Weird the first part of your post completely contradicts your last statement.

WhiteFlash · March 26, 2014, 3:49pm

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

I see what you’re saying, but in the case of the bottle incident, I never saw the guy (or his friends after) coming. Drawing on one guy with his buddy approaching behind you (and a handle of dudes waiting on the sidelines) with what’s essentially a club isn’t gonna help.[/quote]

No, but you’re fucked either way if you’re getting jumped. Just having a gun period in that situation could see it very easily used to shoot you after you are knocked out.

It isn’t an easy black and white issue. [/quote]

That was my point. Having (or drawing) your piece in that situation could make things way worse. Not putting yourself in hairy situations and being mindful of your surroundings goes a long way towards self preservation, but sometimes shit just goes bad.

DoubleDuce · March 26, 2014, 3:52pm

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

That is an absolutely retarded comparison. Not even remotely the same thing. If some dude takes a swing at you and you immediately draw down him because you can, you have major issues and need to reevaluate your life. [/quote]

I disagree completely.

It will be situational dependent. Because I can bring you to some neighborhoods where if you didn’t draw, and expected to be “fine in a fist fight because he is so small” your “life reevaluation” would be as it flashes before your eyes, because your cold dead body will be found the next day where you “man-ed up”.

In fact, I know some grimy motherfuckers that look for people that think like you are here, and others in this thread. MArks. [/quote]

Again, not what I said and not what we’re talking about. Having some clown take a swing at you and legitimately being put in a life or death situation are not the same thing. Not even close. You have no idea where I’m from or what I “think like”. When I was 16 I got into a fight with the wrong guy. I layed him out and one of his buddies smashed me in the side of the head with a full bottle of liquor.

5 or 6 of his friends proceeded to beat the shit out of me, pick me up and run me head first into a fire hydrant while I was unconscious. I have 5 fake teeth to show for it. I’ve been stabbed in my hand, shot at multiple times and Bbeen in more violent situations than anyone you know. A fight is still a fight, and drawing on some guy after one random swing when you’re in no real danger is ridiculous.
[/quote]

Like I said: It will be situational dependent.

I’m gald you survived, however, your stories here tend to back up my point. [/quote]

I see what you’re saying, but in the case of the bottle incident, I never saw the guy (or his friends after) coming. Drawing on one guy with his buddy approaching behind you (and a handle of dudes waiting on the sidelines) with what’s essentially a club isn’t gonna help.[/quote]

That is a fair personal decision and assessment. My evaluation may be different. I personally stay away from areas where that sort of thing happens.

countingbeans · March 26, 2014, 3:59pm

[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

Being Scottish, I figured you would actually understand… [/quote]

Being Scottish, I remember the Dunblane massacre and the family in my neighbourhood that lost a child.
[/quote]

One child huh? While sad, tragic even, and I feel for the parents… How many people has government killed?

Like I said, lacking an elementary understanding of human history.

But I mean, good thing guns are banned so crazy people can’t kill anyone.

talon2nr7588 · March 26, 2014, 4:02pm

The gun is not the be all end all to every situation. When someone is all in your face it is probably not the best idea to pull a gun since they can fight you for it, a knife would be much better.

IamMarqaos · March 26, 2014, 4:02pm

[quote]Will207 wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:
? Has nobody been in a fight on here?

This was normal growing up, nobody got shot, nobody got curb stomped.

I mean really not being a dick, just trying to understand what was so brutal on here? [/quote]

No one on a website called testosterone nation has ever been in a violent altercation…lol[/quote]
Just reading the first page, I get the feeling this was barbaric.

Again maybe I am the barbarian but I am of a different age group.[/quote]

Well I don’t think it was barbaric. I meant the beating he got was pretty brutal to his pride and head. I mean if it were me - I would have filled him full of .45 caliber hollow points after he swung at me…

I am not going to fistfight anyone. I value my body over some idiot who wants to try and harm me for no reason. So, I will just gladly pull the trigger to avoid bodily harm.[/quote]

I don’t know the laws in your state, but I don’t see a jury tipping the scale in your favour if you shot and killed an unarmed man for taking a swing. You look to be over 300lbs and would have a hard time claiming you feared for your life after a punch was thrown.

[/quote]

Having worked with quite a few attorneys, I can tell you that Bauer’s defense attorney would have very little trouble with this scenario.

There is precedent that smaller, thinner men have killed with one blow. One! Bauer is a bodybuilder, not a prizefighter, martial artist etc.

Look at how many posts here state that the white guy showed restraint by not kicking him in the head. Doesn’t that tell you something about what we currently expect to happen when in a fight?

So yes, were it Bauer who was attacked by this guy, and had he shot the guy AFTER being attacked, a self defense strategy would work just fine. NOBODY would expect Bauer to either walk away or to engage in a fight and ‘teach the guy a lesson’.
It is much more likely that the jury would understand him fearing for his life especially since this idiot attacked a guy twice his size because who would do that, right? Has got to be a guy who is crazy or packing.

Either way, easy enough for the attorney to persuade the jury that Bauer was right in fearing for his life. Heck, virtually anyone seeing the video would if they place themselves in the shoes of the guy that was attacked.

Again, who, in his RIGHT MIND, would attack two guys that outweigh him by 50lbs each?

The guy who would be stupid enough to hit a man Bauer’s size WILL have a history of violence. Whether he was convicted for it or not. Shit will be uncovered.

The jury would convene for a short time only and Bauer would be just fine.

SkyzykS · March 26, 2014, 4:04pm

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
That is an absolutely retarded comparison. Not even remotely the same thing. If some dude takes a swing at you and you immediately draw down him because you can, you have major issues and need to reevaluate your life. [/quote]

I disagree completely.

It will be situational dependent. Because I can bring you to some neighborhoods where if you didn’t draw, and expected to be “fine in a fist fight because he is so small” your “life reevaluation” would be as it flashes before your eyes, because your cold dead body will be found the next day where you “man-ed up”.

In fact, I know some grimy motherfuckers that look for people that think like you are here, and others in this thread. MArks. [/quote]

I always get mistaken for an easy mark. Like that time a guy got me utterly hammered, while unbeknownst to me his buddy was waiting outside with a knife. I knew he was being way too generous with those beers.

Too bad that guy brought a knife to a gun fight. Good for both of us that I didn’t have to pull the trigger.
[/quote]

This is all I’m saying. You have to account for your surroundings.

Taking a hard line stance of “a fist fight is just a fist fight” is just as crazy/dangerous/overthetop as saying you would shoot someone instantly upon swinging.

At a frat party? Likely a fist fight. Walking down a back alley at 2am with your chick? Assume at your own risk.
[/quote]

Yeah. I look at use of force against someone (or for yourself, either way) as a continuum. It doesn’t start and end at gunfire.

Then there’s time, place and everything else. Any more, I’m not even in any places where most bad things happen. There’s always the possibility of a random incident, but even in those, given some of my history- I have a better chance than most.

WhiteFlash · March 26, 2014, 4:09pm