NY Thug Versus Arizona Trucker

Off Topic
381

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Infant mortality rates in the US are among the highest of the developed countries. (Source: CDC)

…

But it also means that if you look at certain statistics, you can see some weird paradoxes like… how the US can have both cutting edge pediatrics care and also one of the highest infant mortality rates of the developed nations.[/quote]

That puzzles a lot of people. The primary cause here is preterm births.

"The poor infant-survival rates in the United States are intrinsically linked to high rates of preterm births, those that occur when a woman is between 22 and 37 weeks pregnant, rather than full-term â?? 37 to 41 weeks. "

There’s a lot of factors tied into that.

http://stanmed.stanford.edu/2013fall/article2.html

382

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Infant mortality rates in the US are among the highest of the developed countries. (Source: CDC)

[EDIT: Click the image to see it]

My take on it. Both the US and Europe have some great hospitals. They also both have horrible hospitals. It’s possible that the best of the US hospitals are better than the best of Europe’s hospitals. (And, vice versa.)

The WHO statistics seem to say that, [i]on average[/i], the average patient will have a better healthcare experience in Europe. It doesn’t seem to say anything about either extreme.

As a working professional in the US with decent health coverage and a choice of hospitals, I can pretty much guarantee that my experience will exceed that of most/all uninsured unemployed Medicaid patients.

Likewise, it’s quite possible that it will exceed that of the “average” European patient.

And I think that sort of outlines the basic issue – those who are productive to society receive the benefits of that society; those who aren’t, don’t. If you want a better life for yourself and your children, you need to find a way to add more value. Whether that’s right or wrong, that’s been a prevalent line of thought through US history.

But it also means that if you look at certain statistics, you can see some weird paradoxes like… how the US can have both cutting edge pediatrics care and also one of the highest infant mortality rates of the developed nations.[/quote]

I completely agree with you.

Having said that, is it not the case that the people who have a good job, contribute, and have money will usually receive the best care just about anywhere not just in the US?

I truly wish every single person on this planet could receive great top-notch healthcare, but that is just not feasible. Too much demand and not enough supply.

383

[quote]2busy wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Infant mortality rates in the US are among the highest of the developed countries. (Source: CDC)

…

But it also means that if you look at certain statistics, you can see some weird paradoxes like… how the US can have both cutting edge pediatrics care and also one of the highest infant mortality rates of the developed nations.[/quote]

That puzzles a lot of people. The primary cause here is preterm births.

"The poor infant-survival rates in the United States are intrinsically linked to high rates of preterm births, those that occur when a woman is between 22 and 37 weeks pregnant, rather than full-term â?? 37 to 41 weeks. "

There’s a lot of factors tied into that.

http://stanmed.stanford.edu/2013fall/article2.html
[/quote]

I wonder a lot about this too. The girl I am seeing currently has a sister who had triplets about 10 weeks ago and was at 25 weeks. This is in Tupelo, MS. Not exactly an enormous city known for its preterm infant care. And the care they have received seems quite good as all babies are doing well and expected to come home at the end of April.

They have 1 NICU nurse dedicated to every 2 preterm infants with obviously around the clock supervision.

This is EXTREMELY expensive though. The costs for just 1 week of 1 child being in there in that condition would make your jaw drop. Without insurance, I couldn’t even imagine seeing that bill.

Although Medicaid helps cover costs regardless of the income level of the family, if 2 or more children are born premature in 1 pregnancy.

384

[quote]LoRez wrote:

… those who are productive to society receive the benefits of that society; those who aren’t, don’t. If you want a better life for yourself and your children, you need to find a way to add more value. Whether that’s right or wrong, that’s been a prevalent line of thought through US history.

[/quote]

That sort of merit-based, “pull your own weight” sort of America is DEAD! It is a European outlook on life that was brought to America (America was mostly European until the last few decades), and it is now long gone. Currently, there are loads of fraudulent, crooked, lazy, and distasteful employed people, some with high paying jobs; and there are loads of decent, hard working, highly educated people out of work.

Cronyism, deception, and stealth play a large part in the upper ranks of so called “success” these days.

The view that what people get in return is congruent with what they put in falls in line the Just World Fallacy and also disregards some of the enormous advantages and luck some have, especially in current day America.

385

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
You will starve in France, those fuckers will serve you a piece of meat which will have you thinking…where is the rest of it ?

[/quote]

The only place in Europe that I enjoyed the food was Italy.[/quote]

was it fazoli’s? remember tuesday kids eat free.

386

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Jumbled in with a bunch of other nonsense someone said something along the lines of education and healthcare being a “right”.

Neither of those are a right. A service provided to you is not and cannot be a right by definition. Rights are inherent an inalienable, not services donated to you for your accord. [/quote]

You can actually call it a right, but it is a positive right. Liberty and the bill of rights in the constitution are negative rights. Negative and positive rights are mutually exclusive by definition. In other words declaring healthcare and or education a right is to declare liberty and self-determination (at least for some) not a right.

Most of the Europeans revert to, “we only do it to the rich so it’s okay because they are evil” shtick, which is morally disgusting. In the US we believe in equal protection under the law regardless of race, gender, background, or wealth. By that thought, you can no more penalize someone for obtaining wealth than you can punish someone for being poor. The law is not supposed to differentiate based on wealth. This whole idea that the rich don’t deserve the same protection of property is repugnant.

387

[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:
Just gonna attach that pic again as you seemed to have missed it entirely and are building up a shitty argument regarding costs equating quality?

In terms of quality care, U.S. ranked 6th.

In terms of safe care, U.S. ranked 7th.

In terms of timelines of care U.S. ranked 5th.

In terms of efficiency, guess what? U.S. ranked dead last yet again at 7th.

I don’t care to try and explain why a minority of european citizens go abroad for healthcare as it has nothing to do with the point at hand and would be purely conjecture.

You are making bold sweeping statements that universal healthcare here in Europe sucks when quite frankly the facts are right in front of you indicating that that is indeed not the case, if you cared to read the first link I posted you would have seen U.S.A ranked 37th whilst Italian healthcare ranked second and French first.

[quote]Bauber wrote:

Explain why we have so many people come HERE for treatment then, if they can afford it?

I live very close to St. Jude and do charity work every year throughout the year there. They have people clamoring to come there from everywhere in the world for treatment. Since Europe’s medical care is so much better why don’t they all go there?

The US is where the cutting edge medicine is produced, so all your European hospitals can thank us for that too. When you provide the latest and most advanced care it usually costs more. Kind of like buying a new car versus a model 20 years old.[/quote]

[/quote]

I see your fucking picture and I stand by what I said. And like I said these statistics are based on what parameters? You do realize anyone with a ounce of a fucking brain can make stats say whatever they want. And if you had read what I said, I did not say costs directly equated quality. But it does take more money to stay on the cutting edge and keep researching better and more advanced options, fucking get it?

And the links you posted are not exactly what I would call credible sources.

That is funny considering my experience in Italy. If that is what it means to be ranked 1st, I will pass.

Typical though all you do is spout google searches and have ZERO firsthand experience in both to compare.[/quote]

Sorry, what?

The World Health Organisation is not a credible source lol? Seriously?!

Read the links ya fucking clown.

This Business Insider article sums up the WHO World Health Report of 2000, which I have also so kindly linked before but will, yet again, as you seem to be unable to read them.

http://www.who.int/whr/2000/en/whr00_en.pdf

I personally have no problems with you saying in your experience you didn’t personally like the treatment, thats fine and dandy. However, don’t make bold claims that european healthcares are shit when the facts are right there lol.
[/quote]

Studies show over and over that individual outcomes are FAR better here in the US. Meaning, for a given person’s health you are far better off here in the US than virtually anywhere in the world. The reason we rank “lower” on healthcare in some studies is because people here are far fatter and less healthy than other parts of the world. It is much harder to treat a 400 pound diabetic for cancer who lives on McDonalds and never gets exercise, than to treat a fit normal weight person for cancer. BUT if you are either of those people, survival rates are better here.

Which is also why we spend more per capita. We have a bunch of fat unhealthy people. And things like illegal Mexicans going to expensive emergency rooms, a big problem Europe conveniently doesn’t have.

Of course this glosses over the larger fact that it’s our medical system that drives all the new developments in treatment. Most of the new drugs/treatments/medical procedures come from the US. Without the US system the rest of the word would be far worse off medically. A “thank you” would be more appropriate than claiming to be better than us at using treatments that wouldn’t exist without the US.

If you really wanted to improve health and life here in the US, it would be far cheaper to legislate diet and exercise. Ban fast food and make work parking lots ¼ mile from the office. Done. Spending would go way down and health and longevity would go way up. Unfortunately, in the US we believe in self-determination.

388

[quote]furo wrote:
Worst thread I’ve ever read on a site usually renown for intelligence. Lost a lot of respect for a few guys in here. I won’t bother posting my point of view, Rattlehead said everything I wanted to say. [/quote]

lmao

Jesus H. Have the fucking balls to say what you want to say or don’t say anything. PAssive aggressive “ambiguity” is pathetic.

This is the internet, either have the discussion or don’t post, no point in being “PC” about it.

389

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]furo wrote:
Worst thread I’ve ever read on a site usually renown for intelligence. Lost a lot of respect for a few guys in here. I won’t bother posting my point of view, Rattlehead said everything I wanted to say. [/quote]

lmao

Jesus H. Have the fucking balls to say what you want to say or don’t say anything. PAssive aggressive “ambiguity” is pathetic.

This is the internet, either have the discussion or don’t post, no point in being “PC” about it. [/quote]

Coming into a discussion that takes a turn to rights and core beliefs thinking inflammatory things are not going to be said on the interwebs… yeah.

But the thing is, no matter what has been said I would go have a beer and shoot the shit about lifting with anyone here. Hell, I would even buy.

knee-gro even you are welcome.

390

[quote]Bauber wrote:

But the thing is, no matter what has been said I would go have a beer and shoot the shit about lifting with anyone here. Hell, I would even buy.
.[/quote]

Agreed. I’m not nearly angry at anyone, lol.

Cultural differences lead to debate.

391

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Infant mortality rates in the US are among the highest of the developed countries. (Source: CDC)

…

But it also means that if you look at certain statistics, you can see some weird paradoxes like… how the US can have both cutting edge pediatrics care and also one of the highest infant mortality rates of the developed nations.[/quote]

If medical care were the only factor in infant mortality, it would be a medical paradox. But there are a ton of other factors, like the health of the mothers. You could probably compare pregnant obesity rates, gestational diabetes rates, est. and find it isn’t a paradox a all.

392

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Infant mortality rates in the US are among the highest of the developed countries. (Source: CDC)

…

But it also means that if you look at certain statistics, you can see some weird paradoxes like… how the US can have both cutting edge pediatrics care and also one of the highest infant mortality rates of the developed nations.[/quote]

If medical care were the only factor in infant mortality, it would be a medical paradox. But there are a ton of other factors, like the health of the mothers. You could probably compare pregnant obesity rates, gestational diabetes rates, est. and find it isn’t a paradox a all. [/quote]

Also, drug use is another one that doesn’t get talked about much.

393

[quote]Bauber wrote:

But the thing is, no matter what has been said I would go have a beer and shoot the shit about lifting with anyone here. Hell, I would even buy.

knee-gro even you are welcome.[/quote]

Absolutely I’d take you up on that offer as long as it’s not in Mississipi 'cause I tend to get involved in fist fights whith the people I’m drinking with…I don’t want you to legally shoot me in the face hahaha.

Besides American beer is weaker than piss. European beer is so much better lol.

394

So hey, how about that beat-down vid, heh?

395

[quote]knee-gro wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

But the thing is, no matter what has been said I would go have a beer and shoot the shit about lifting with anyone here. Hell, I would even buy.

knee-gro even you are welcome.[/quote]

Absolutely I’d take you up on that offer as long as it’s not in Mississipi 'cause I tend to get involved in fist fights whith the people I’m drinking with…I don’t want you to legally shoot me in the face hahaha.

Besides American beer is weaker than piss. European beer is so much better lol.
[/quote]

Lol, hey at least you can joke about it! Plus, I wouldn’t ever shoot someone who was intoxicated and unarmed =P. Can just push them down and laugh at them.

Oh I completely agree there. Can make a good meal out of 2-3 good European beers.

396

[quote]knee-gro wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

But the thing is, no matter what has been said I would go have a beer and shoot the shit about lifting with anyone here. Hell, I would even buy.

knee-gro even you are welcome.[/quote]

Absolutely I’d take you up on that offer as long as it’s not in Mississipi 'cause I tend to get involved in fist fights whith the people I’m drinking with…I don’t want you to legally shoot me in the face hahaha.

Besides American beer is weaker than piss. European beer is so much better lol.
[/quote]

First, it’s illegal to drink and carry. Second, I don’t think your outcome would be much better fighting an unarmed Bauber.

As for beer, I make my own, but everywhere I’ve lived has some really good local brews.

397

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]knee-gro wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

But the thing is, no matter what has been said I would go have a beer and shoot the shit about lifting with anyone here. Hell, I would even buy.

knee-gro even you are welcome.[/quote]

Absolutely I’d take you up on that offer as long as it’s not in Mississipi 'cause I tend to get involved in fist fights whith the people I’m drinking with…I don’t want you to legally shoot me in the face hahaha.

Besides American beer is weaker than piss. European beer is so much better lol.
[/quote]

First, it’s illegal to drink and carry. Second, I don’t think your outcome would be much better fighting an unarmed Bauber.

As for beer, I make my own, but everywhere I’ve lived has some really good local brews.[/quote]

Depends on the state. In some states, if your blood alcohol is above a certain level the police can take your gun from you and revoke your carry permit (if you have one). But just having a drink while carrying is not illegal, again depending on the state’s laws. But I agree with your sentiment, if you are going to drink - leave your gun at home.

Tennessee is one of four states, along with Arizona, Georgia and Virginia, that recently enacted laws explicitly allowing loaded guns in bars. (Eighteen other states allow weapons in restaurants that serve alcohol.) The legal works that define a bar is that 50% or more of their sales come from alcohol.

In Mississippi, if you have your IC (enhanced carry), you are allowed to carry anywhere BUT a courtroom when a judge is in session or any police or sheriff station/ jail. You basically have to go through similar instruction a police officer does with regard to shooting situations in public and how to be aware of potential collateral damage. It involved a written test and a shooting competency (accuracy) test from various yardages.

Local brews can be fantastic! But, any beer that is made to sit on shelves for months and months isn’t usually all that great haha.

398

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]knee-gro wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

But the thing is, no matter what has been said I would go have a beer and shoot the shit about lifting with anyone here. Hell, I would even buy.

knee-gro even you are welcome.[/quote]

Absolutely I’d take you up on that offer as long as it’s not in Mississipi 'cause I tend to get involved in fist fights whith the people I’m drinking with…I don’t want you to legally shoot me in the face hahaha.

Besides American beer is weaker than piss. European beer is so much better lol.
[/quote]

First, it’s illegal to drink and carry. Second, I don’t think your outcome would be much better fighting an unarmed Bauber.

As for beer, I make my own, but everywhere I’ve lived has some really good local brews.[/quote]

Depends on the state. In some states, if your blood alcohol is above a certain level the police can take your gun from you and revoke your carry permit (if you have one). But just having a drink while carrying is not illegal, again depending on the state’s laws. But I agree with your sentiment, if you are going to drink - leave your gun at home.

Tennessee is one of four states, along with Arizona, Georgia and Virginia, that recently enacted laws explicitly allowing loaded guns in bars. (Eighteen other states allow weapons in restaurants that serve alcohol.) The legal works that define a bar is that 50% or more of their sales come from alcohol.

In Mississippi, if you have your IC (enhanced carry), you are allowed to carry anywhere BUT a courtroom when a judge is in session or any police or sheriff station/ jail. You basically have to go through similar instruction a police officer does with regard to shooting situations in public and how to be aware of potential collateral damage. It involved a written test and a shooting competency (accuracy) test from various yardages.

Local brews can be fantastic! But, any beer that is made to sit on shelves for months and months isn’t usually all that great haha.[/quote]

In Tennessee I don’t believe there is a specific blood alcohol limit I just remember it says you cannot be under the influence. But I do know you are not allowed to even be in possession of an open container when armed.

399

[quote]knee-gro wrote:
Besides American beer is weaker than piss. European beer is so much better lol.
[/quote]

Now this is one thing the septics cannot deny.

Although I’ve been very partial to Brooklyn Beer of late!

400

Fuck beer. Jameson Irish Whiskey for example.

You guys may have fucked up view on firearms, but you make some damn good booze.