Nutrition Myths

Nutrition
101

First,
A couple of legitimate (if not somewhat barbed) q’s for the milkophobes (dairyphobes?):

  1. If my skim milk is suspect for the reasons named (contaminants, denaturation, etc.), is my non-fat cheese, non-fat cottage cheese, non-fat yogurt, or my Edy’s slow-churned ice cream also suspect?

  2. The penicillin and/or insulin and/or GH that’s found in milk, is that straight from the cow or off the shelf? If straight from the cow, why is pasteurization so damaging to the milk and not these proteins/molecules?

  3. How concerned should I be about my milk relative to something else, say, beer or tylenol? For instance, I wouldn’t recommend more than the maximum prescribed dosage of tylenol for more than a day or two without a doctor nor would recommend anyone drink more than ~5 beers/wk. You would suggest no more than _________ oz./glasses of milk every _________ d/wk./mo. for _________ d/wk./mo.

Now, mythbusting:

  1. Loss of lactase function means we shouldn’t drink milk.
  • I disagree with this assertion based on several phenomenon. People bald, vegetarians lose the ability to digest meat, teeth fall out (among other phenomenon). I don’t take these as signs that the people shouldn’t have hair, eat meat, or stop eating as they age. I’m not drawing a 100% parallel here, everyone must obviously eat, but not everyone must obviously consume milk, my issue is with the extrapolation.
  1. There’s the GH, penicillin and insulin in the milk.

-GH and insulin are administered to the animal and may/do come out in the milk, but considering the shelf-life of chilled GH and insulin and what I know about protein denaturation, I don’t think either of these survive pasteurization. Penicillin, while it is administered to the animal, may survive pasteurization (t1/2 of 2d @ 37C, ?? @ >37C), but as said before, it can’t be an appreciable amount because people who are allergic to penicillin (my wife) can consume copious amounts of milk without concern and for the rest of us, penicillin is relatively innocuous even at more appreciable doses.

  1. Pasteurized milk is denatured.

-I agree completely that it is denatured, now, how bad is it, not very. considering that the proteins in powdered whey and casein (maybe not micellar) are largely denatured from their orginal forms in the cow, and that the body is capable of digesting everything from short peptides, to raw beef it would be hard to convince me that denatured proteins are toxic. Escpecially since denatured toxins such as anthrax or botulinum are used as vaccinces.

  1. No other animal consumes milk after the “nursing period”, neither should we.
  • I can’t believe “rational” human beings use this argument. No other animals cultivate vegetation, any vegetation. They don’t cook food, domesticate animals, ferment grains, culture cheeses and breads, vaccinate themselves or otherwise actively fight diseases, or even walk predominantly upright. So along the same lines, we should give up all agriculture, cooking, brewing, vaccination, and walking. Also, depending on the animal, the “nursing period” is arbitrary. For cattle, the lactation period is about 300d regardless if the milk is being consumed. Humans on the other hand, can lactate as long as the milk is being consumed and nutritional needs are met. One could (poorly) argue based on this that humans ARE meant to drink milk for a larger percentage of their lives.
  1. Organic, Grass-fed, non-pasteurized, daily-massage-and-manicure milk is better than commercial milk.

-I agree half-heartedly. Assuming the milk is pathogen-free, you get what you pay for. Now, does a glass of fancy milk add more slabs of muscle to your body or years to your life than commercial milk? I’ve yet to see any direct evidence, and it’d be hard to justify the difference in price (~2X more expensive here in Chicago).

102

lucasa, that was a decent post. I personally wouldn’t have had the patience to lay it out like that, but you deserve credit for it.

103

[quote]you starting a thread and then being abusive and swearing at a dissenter was the real (sarcastic) positive contribution to this thread.

I actually agree with both TS and the prof. in many ways on this thread. You’ll find that impossible…[/quote]

Sasquatch,

I don’t know if you can tell the difference, but there is a difference between “swearing” and “swearing at someone”. The difference between the two is pretty significant.

Now, if you wish to continue analyzing my posts and dropping misguided insults, perhaps you could please return to the political arena to do it, this really isn’t the place. Seriously.

Thank you.

104

Hi- My name is!@#$% and I’m a Milkaholic. I’ve been drinking milk for as long as I can remember. Lately though, I wake up in the morning and start the day with an eye opener. The past few months, I have woken up from a dead sleep, only to find myself in front of the fridge, chugging milk…
I’m out of control. I need help. For gods sake, I even sneak it in my coffee!

My daily dive into absurdity. Thank you.

105

[quote]lucasa wrote:
4) No other animal consumes milk after the “nursing period”, neither should we.

  • I can’t believe “rational” human beings use this argument. No other animals cultivate vegetation, any vegetation. They don’t cook food, domesticate animals, ferment grains, culture cheeses and breads, vaccinate themselves or otherwise actively fight diseases, or even walk predominantly upright. So along the same lines, we should give up all agriculture, cooking, brewing, vaccination, and walking. Also, depending on the animal, the “nursing period” is arbitrary. For cattle, the lactation period is about 300d regardless if the milk is being consumed. Humans on the other hand, can lactate as long as the milk is being consumed and nutritional needs are met. One could (poorly) argue based on this that humans ARE meant to drink milk for a larger percentage of their lives.
    [/quote]

In Bible times it was not uncommon for children to nurse till 5 and 7 years old.

Mine nursed till 12 mos (son) and 2yrs 9 mos (daughter) and they’re ok!

The whole milk debacle is really pointless, imo. I drink milk. I will probably drink it forever.

And I KNOW that cow’s milk is designed for calves and calves need that particular blend of nutrients.

Also, breastmilk is specifically designed for human consumption. Babies drinking formula get leaky gut syndrome, where they can’t absorb the “nutrients” in the formula. I use quotation marks on that because I believe formula is inferior to breastmilk and there is no way possible that it could ever be just as good as breastmilk.

But then that’s another issue for another day, isn’t it? :slight_smile: Doesn’t really go with the ‘cow’s milk is bad/good/will turn you purple’ argument.

106

[quote]lucasa wrote:
First,
A couple of legitimate (if not somewhat barbed) q’s for the milkophobes (dairyphobes?):

  1. If my skim milk is suspect for the reasons named (contaminants, denaturation, etc.), is my non-fat cheese, non-fat cottage cheese, non-fat yogurt, or my Edy’s slow-churned ice cream also suspect?

  2. The penicillin and/or insulin and/or GH that’s found in milk, is that straight from the cow or off the shelf? If straight from the cow, why is pasteurization so damaging to the milk and not these proteins/molecules?

  3. How concerned should I be about my milk relative to something else, say, beer or tylenol? For instance, I wouldn’t recommend more than the maximum prescribed dosage of tylenol for more than a day or two without a doctor nor would recommend anyone drink more than ~5 beers/wk. You would suggest no more than _________ oz./glasses of milk every _________ d/wk./mo. for _________ d/wk./mo.

Now, mythbusting:

  1. Loss of lactase function means we shouldn’t drink milk.
  • I disagree with this assertion based on several phenomenon. People bald, vegetarians lose the ability to digest meat, teeth fall out (among other phenomenon). I don’t take these as signs that the people shouldn’t have hair, eat meat, or stop eating as they age. I’m not drawing a 100% parallel here, everyone must obviously eat, but not everyone must obviously consume milk, my issue is with the extrapolation.
  1. There’s the GH, penicillin and insulin in the milk.

-GH and insulin are administered to the animal and may/do come out in the milk, but considering the shelf-life of chilled GH and insulin and what I know about protein denaturation, I don’t think either of these survive pasteurization. Penicillin, while it is administered to the animal, may survive pasteurization (t1/2 of 2d @ 37C, ?? @ >37C), but as said before, it can’t be an appreciable amount because people who are allergic to penicillin (my wife) can consume copious amounts of milk without concern and for the rest of us, penicillin is relatively innocuous even at more appreciable doses.

  1. Pasteurized milk is denatured.

-I agree completely that it is denatured, now, how bad is it, not very. considering that the proteins in powdered whey and casein (maybe not micellar) are largely denatured from their orginal forms in the cow, and that the body is capable of digesting everything from short peptides, to raw beef it would be hard to convince me that denatured proteins are toxic. Escpecially since denatured toxins such as anthrax or botulinum are used as vaccinces.

  1. No other animal consumes milk after the “nursing period”, neither should we.
  • I can’t believe “rational” human beings use this argument. No other animals cultivate vegetation, any vegetation. They don’t cook food, domesticate animals, ferment grains, culture cheeses and breads, vaccinate themselves or otherwise actively fight diseases, or even walk predominantly upright. So along the same lines, we should give up all agriculture, cooking, brewing, vaccination, and walking. Also, depending on the animal, the “nursing period” is arbitrary. For cattle, the lactation period is about 300d regardless if the milk is being consumed. Humans on the other hand, can lactate as long as the milk is being consumed and nutritional needs are met. One could (poorly) argue based on this that humans ARE meant to drink milk for a larger percentage of their lives.
  1. Organic, Grass-fed, non-pasteurized, daily-massage-and-manicure milk is better than commercial milk.

-I agree half-heartedly. Assuming the milk is pathogen-free, you get what you pay for. Now, does a glass of fancy milk add more slabs of muscle to your body or years to your life than commercial milk? I’ve yet to see any direct evidence, and it’d be hard to justify the difference in price (~2X more expensive here in Chicago). [/quote]

First before I reply to this one let me just say to J23t and “The Bear”—its nice to see we still have some total meatheads on the boards. See you guys in the gym! They’ll be easy to spot what with the american flag bandanas, crazee wear pants, perpetual belts. Get a clue man–drinking milk may be your choice but it doesn’t make you more of a man or any of that shit.

Now to Lucasa:

Point #1–yes any of these sources are suspect.

Point#2–So you admit that these contaminants make it through pasteurization. Why don’t these affect penicillin sensitive people? Who says the antibiotics they used were penicillin? Also it is a cumulative effect. Kind of like mercury amalgams in the teeth. Do they knock you out the next day. Not usually but give them 10-20 years and see what they can do for you.

Point#3----Ummm I don’t get this one alcohol, tylenol, and milk. Uhh I’ll let you make that connection.

Point#3(other)—Pasteurized milk is denatured, we can agree on that. How bad is that is subjective. It is the high heat that denatures milk just like protein powders. Thats why you don’t want the “ultra” pasteurized stuff. There are protein powders available that are processed at lower temps. Cross linkage and denatured proteins are toxic to the body, period. How toxic is what is debatable. The last part is what concerns me. So you think that vaccines–especially those two are OK?

Point#4–I totally concede. Good answer

Point#5–I concede half-heartedly. You get what you pay for most of the time. If the sole purpose of consuming food is to “put on slabs of muscle” you are so right. If you are also concerned about your longevity and internal health, you may want to research further.

Let me say finally that like all of you here on this site, I’m all about training smart to build my body to the best of its potential. For me though I am also concerned with my overall health and longevity and fitness. If you aren’t and all you want is big bench and who cares what goes in my body as long as I get hyoooge–more power to you. Good luck with your goals. But when you tell someone to shut up and drink milk and stop being a pussy, you sound like an idiot. As TC put it recently T-men should strive for more than that.

107

[quote]Gothic77 wrote:
In Bible times it was not uncommon for children to nurse till 5 and 7 years old.
[/quote]

Those were the days.

108

Sasquatch,

Great points and thanks for being rational and non-argumentative. For a second I thought most posters on this thread were defense attorneys!

TS

109

storey420,

I am by no means suggesting “shut up and drink milk and stop being a pussy”, and I clearly stated, “not everyone must obviously consume milk.”

As for the beer and tylenol maybe I wasn’t clear enough, both are acutely toxic at doses near the “effective” dose. As well, lethal doses can easily be defined and yet we consume them on a regular basis. Even more chronically toxic chemicals such as trace lead, chromium, and mercury amalgam are consumed regularly, and for all of the above, the safe thresholds are clearly defined. No such threshold exists for milk of any kind (save the 1gal. in <1hr., ahh, to be a stupid teen.). Thus my question, should I worry more about my tylenol, my weekend beer (1-2), the lead in my water, the fillings in my teeth or my milk?

AS for worrying about it life extension-wise, once again, how many d/wk./yr. do I add to my life? I’ve seen varying correlations to different diseases that have different correlations with premature death, but nothing that can even begin to approach a “hard and fast” association.

Also, denatured and crosslinked proteins aren’t inherently toxic unless you’ve got an insane definition of toxic that pretty much includes starvation/suffocation as the only alternative (all cooked foods contain “denatured protein” and most all foods contained “cross-linkage” proteins [myosin, actin, fibrinogen, collagen, etc.]).

BTW- Beware the life extension trap, lots of people will answer the following question “Yes” without thinking:

“If you could add 2.5yrs. to your life by spending 5 in a coma before your 30th birthday, would you?”

And lots of people will unwittingly answer the same question yes. e.g.

“Assuming you hate or are indifferent to exercise, would you exercise 3X/wk. for 1hr. for 70yr. to add 1 yr. to your life?” You end up sacrificing 1.2yr. of life doing something you hate to add one year to the end of your life. I’m not saying don’t exercise, more appropriately;

“Would you give up drinking milk/ pay ~2X as much if it, on average only added 10 min. to your life?” The true right answer depends on how much life/health you gain and how much you like milk.

Some (mis) quotes:

“Life is the leading cause of death, anything else is just a contributing factor.” -? (Strong Words)

“On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.” -Narrator “Fight Club”

110

Lucasa,

I tried to split that comment away from answering your post because I didn’t think you were saying that. I was referencing the other two posters that I specifically named. Got nothing against you buddy.

You’re right all cooked food is in a sense toxic to the body when you look at the biochemical responses necessary to cope with it, mainly the spending of methyl groups at the cell. When you eat a yummy piece of BBQ that has been charred you are eating heterocyclicamines–a carcinogen. That is toxic believe me. Am I saying don’t eat meat or don’t drink milk–fuck no. That is your choice but people should at least know the reality and then make their own informed choice as to what they wish to do.

I’m not too into the comeback on life extension. I mean I can give you fifty nebulous what if scenarios and they still don’t mean shit. Smoking is bad it takes years off your life. How many? Who cares, what really matters is the QUALITY of your life if you do live that long. I could care less about living to be 100 if the last twenty years are spent in diapers in a nursing home. Being strong physically, mentally, and I think I need to stress internally here is what I’m after.

I used to drink milk but don’t anymore after informing myself. I consider the negatives to outweigh the positives. I do eat fermented dairy–keifer and believe that to be far superior on every level than commercial crap dairy stuff.

111

First before I reply to this one let me just say to J23t and “The Bear”—its nice to see we still have some total meatheads on the boards. See you guys in the gym! They’ll be easy to spot what with the american flag bandanas, crazee wear pants, perpetual belts. Get a clue man–drinking milk may be your choice but it doesn’t make you more of a man or any of that shit.

Thats amazing that you figured me out like that. Zubaaz pants rule…however, you are wrong. I may lift more than you, be more athletic, and have more knowledge in exercise physiology than you but I do not where an American Bandana although I am a wholehearted American, I do not wear funky pants, my legs are not small and do not need to be hidden and I thin thoose pants are ridiculous, and the only time I wear a belt is for max days and DE squat days. I am a man because I live with morals but meet every challenge put my way so don’t think that you can put me into any category because I say drink milk. I was merely putting a simple equation up on the board for you so you could understand why the debate should just stop. When has anyone died from milk that wasn’t allergic to it? I have yet to see some evidence that milk is bad. So show me something or shut up.

112

[quote]chinadoll wrote:
Myth: Low fat or fat free is always better for you.
Myth: Don’t eat carbs.
Myth: The whole world should be converted to the Atkins diet
Myth: Soy is a miracle food

Not to change the subject but reminds me of training myths as well. I was doing a leg exercise with proper form one day and some weird chick was sighing impatiently while watching me. She finally barged in on my training and instructed me that it’s as well a BACK exercise and showed me how to use my back to do the exercise. I felt compelled to say, “you know that’s how you f**k up your back, don’t you”, but she adamantly insisted, so in order to shut her up and get rid of her I heard her out. When she finally got up and started walking away, I told her, “thank-you much, FRUITY.”

Fruity training Myth: Don’t use good form but instead use your back on all non-back exercises to strengthen it.

Training Myth: “You shouldn’t lift that much weights, you’re going to look like one of those big massive guys!” Gasp!

Training Myth: Girls should only stick to #3, 5# and 8# little tiny dumbells.[/quote]

Once again chinadoll has written the best post on the thread!

113

[quote]j23t wrote:
First before I reply to this one let me just say to J23t and “The Bear”—its nice to see we still have some total meatheads on the boards. See you guys in the gym! They’ll be easy to spot what with the american flag bandanas, crazee wear pants, perpetual belts. Get a clue man–drinking milk may be your choice but it doesn’t make you more of a man or any of that shit.

Thats amazing that you figured me out like that. Zubaaz pants rule…however, you are wrong. I may lift more than you, be more athletic, and have more knowledge in exercise physiology than you but I do not where an American Bandana although I am a wholehearted American, I do not wear funky pants, my legs are not small and do not need to be hidden and I thin thoose pants are ridiculous, and the only time I wear a belt is for max days and DE squat days. I am a man because I live with morals but meet every challenge put my way so don’t think that you can put me into any category because I say drink milk. I was merely putting a simple equation up on the board for you so you could understand why the debate should just stop. When has anyone died from milk that wasn’t allergic to it? I have yet to see some evidence that milk is bad. So show me something or shut up.[/quote]

Maybe you don’t wear the uniform of that guy but you sure act like it. I didn’t put you into a category because you drink milk–apparently so does Professor X but I haven’t heard him come off with some bullshit. Calling someone a big pussy because they don’t like milk—sorry defend yourself however you like but that is freakin idiotic.

That is what I was referring to although the post that Topsirloin was referring to of yours isn’t much better. To paraphrase you: “There are all kinds of things in our environment that are bad besides milk–so shut up and drink it cause it’ll build muscle and stuff.”

Someone that puts out a statement like that and then wants me to back up my statements with research? Are you kidding. No matter what I show you, we can tell your opinion is made. I mean after all, there is all kinds of bad stuff in the world right. If YOU did some research, you might find that commercial dairy may not be so healthy for you after all but in the end it is YOUR choice what you put in your body. Just like its yours and my choice to drink, or smoke or whatever.

114

[quote]storey420 wrote:
If YOU did some research, you might find that commercial dairy may not be so healthy for you after all…
[/quote]

Or, we could do research and find out how great it is. I have yet to see anything that withstands logical reasoning. Some of you simply don’t want to drink milk. Fine. Don’t drink it. I don’t drink alcohol outside of rare instances I am out with friends and drink a beer simply so I don’t dampen the mood. I don’t run around telling everyone else not to drink beers because they will all die if they do. Milk is healthier than beer.

115

[quote]storey420 wrote:
j23t wrote:
First before I reply to this one let me just say to J23t and “The Bear”—its nice to see we still have some total meatheads on the boards. See you guys in the gym! They’ll be easy to spot what with the american flag bandanas, crazee wear pants, perpetual belts. Get a clue man–drinking milk may be your choice but it doesn’t make you more of a man or any of that shit.

Thats amazing that you figured me out like that. Zubaaz pants rule…however, you are wrong. I may lift more than you, be more athletic, and have more knowledge in exercise physiology than you but I do not where an American Bandana although I am a wholehearted American, I do not wear funky pants, my legs are not small and do not need to be hidden and I thin thoose pants are ridiculous, and the only time I wear a belt is for max days and DE squat days. I am a man because I live with morals but meet every challenge put my way so don’t think that you can put me into any category because I say drink milk. I was merely putting a simple equation up on the board for you so you could understand why the debate should just stop. When has anyone died from milk that wasn’t allergic to it? I have yet to see some evidence that milk is bad. So show me something or shut up.

Maybe you don’t wear the uniform of that guy but you sure act like it. I didn’t put you into a category because you drink milk–apparently so does Professor X but I haven’t heard him come off with some bullshit. Calling someone a big pussy because they don’t like milk—sorry defend yourself however you like but that is freakin idiotic.

That is what I was referring to although the post that Topsirloin was referring to of yours isn’t much better. To paraphrase you: “There are all kinds of things in our environment that are bad besides milk–so shut up and drink it cause it’ll build muscle and stuff.”

Someone that puts out a statement like that and then wants me to back up my statements with research? Are you kidding. No matter what I show you, we can tell your opinion is made. I mean after all, there is all kinds of bad stuff in the world right. If YOU did some research, you might find that commercial dairy may not be so healthy for you after all but in the end it is YOUR choice what you put in your body. Just like its yours and my choice to drink, or smoke or whatever.
[/quote]

What I type online and how I act are two different things. Lets start off differently then if I bother you.

I have found no ill effects of milk except for the fact that I am lactose intolerant now. I can have some without any problems and I can eat chesse but I dare not drink a lot of it. I do like lactose free milk however. My thing is that I have no t seen any ill effects of drinking milk. Does something take years to develop from drinking milk? Possibly, but are those things in milk actually a danger after they sit on that cold grocery store shelf for so long, and if so, are the amounts in there enough to cause any problems. Perhaps others are more sensitive to things and others aren’t. If and when that is the case, someone has the choice to drink milk or not but I would like to see some good references put up to make me think differently.

Yes, I have my mind made up that milk is a great nutritional addtition to my diet but I am not a meathead that cannot think. I can make logical decisions based on what I know and learn as I go along. Such as the progression of written essays from jr high to college. Things change, so show me something.

116

There you go J23T–excellent post. Basically the same as the professor. You guys are both lactose intolerant but feel that milk is a good addition to your nutritional program. Nuff said. See no need for name calling( as I resorted to) to get your point across. You are both right.
Milk is better in my opinion for you than beer but I’ll take a cold one over milk any day–my choice.

Most of the actual supporting documentation that a pro-milk person can provide is by a site sponsored by the dairy lobby. Your anecdotal feelings on milk are fine with me. I have chosen to research both sides and don’t feel like the positives outweigh the negatives. I choose to use a fermented dairy–kefir. As I believe there are only positives for that.

Again though had you just posted something staright forward and lucid like this post, I would not have “attacked” you directly. I just thought the pussy comments were childish.

117

[quote]storey420 wrote:
Most of the actual supporting documentation that a pro-milk person can provide is by a site sponsored by the dairy lobby.[/quote]

Most of the “con-milk” documentation is by people either selling an alternative product or by PETA. What’s your point?

118

Storey420,

I think there is a bit of a issue here though that you may have overlooked. If I am not mistaken, isn’t it the anti-milk lobby that is going against hundreds of years of convention and belief?

It is not up to the rest of society to prove to you that milk is good, it is up to those that are trying to change the way the word works to convince us that milk is bad – so that the world will change according to those beliefs.

So, my counterclaim is that the anti-milk crowd has done nothing that comes close to actually proving anything worthy of discussion. When that proof arrives, if it ever does, then I will be very happy to change my tune.

119

[quote]vroom wrote:
I agree with you. It isn’t BAD but excessive consumption of it is hard on the kidneys. Just a “guess”, but I’m assuming that’s why they say drink a lot of water.

EdensAngel,

What you’ve provided is the common repeated misconception concerning protein consumption.

If you have healthy kidneys, you aren’t going to run into a problem because you are eating protein.

There are groups, such as Eskimo’s, which would live off of basically nothing other than protein and fat.

However, studies conducted with those that had pre-existing kidney problems did in fact show added stress. This does not mean that healthy people cannot process waste byproducts of a normal metabolism. That is precisely what the kidneys are intended to do.

For some reason, over time, people have created concerns about what our body can and can’t handle, without any real reason to do so.

Recently fats were the devil. Perhaps to some carbs are the devil. I’m sure it will be proteins turn soon once supplements are in general determined to be the devil.

If you wish to claim something is harmful, I’d suggest, especially for this thread, that you avoid anecdotal evidence and find something resembling proof.

Anyway, as I’ve stated repeatedly, the fact that something isn’t bad for you doesn’t mean you should eat enough of it to kill yourself. Hell, you can drink water and kill yourself with it if you try hard enough.

However, water isn’t “bad” for you per se.

Come on folks, lets kill these pesky nutritional myths and folklore…[/quote]

[quote]ProfessorX wrote:
Being a nurse has nothing to do with the misconception. You have some doctors who still believe creatine is dangerous despite the evidence to the contrary. Many of these myths survive in the health field as well simply because people want to believe them, not because they are true. [/quote]

I’m not sure, but after I read your posts several times through, I think you may be confused about my beliefs on protein. Do you think that I feel protein is bad in general? On the contrary boys, I believe it is very good for you. We put our patients on diets high in protein (as long as no kidney problems exist) because we understand that protein promotes tissue growth and repair. Burn patients, patients who have had surgery, and patients with pressure ulcers etc. especially need the extra protein. I’ve studied nutrition since I started college four years ago so I’ll give you a run down of what I know of protein. We’ll start by naming the six classes of nutrients - that is…what your body has to have to survive. They are: carbohydrates (CHO), fats, proteins, vitamins, minerals, and water. Proteins are like CHO in that they contain carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen but in different proportions.

More importantly, protein is the only nutrient that contains nitrogen. Some protein’s also contain sulfur. Proteins are composed of amino acids and while there are 20 amino acids only 9 are considered essential to sustain life: Histidine, Isoleucine, Leucine, Lysine, Methionine, Phenylalanine, Treonine, Tryptophan (yes, I know the face you’re making because I made it too), and Valine. The nonessential in case you’re wondering are: Alanine, Arginine, Asparagine, Aspartic acid, Cysteine, Cystine, Glutamic Acid, Glutamine, Glycine, Hydroxyproline, Proline, Serine, and Tyrosine.

I’m sure you know where you can get your protein from but we’ll go over that just a little bit. There are complete proteins - that is they contain all the essential amino acids. Examples: meats, fish, poultry, eggs, milk, and cheese. There are incomplete proteins that lack one or more of the essential amino acids: corn, peanuts, peas, navy beans, soybeans, grains, nuts, sunflower seeds, and sesame seeds, etc. And there are sources of protein that when combined together may provide all the essentail amino acids. These are called complementary proteins. For example: Corn and beans, rice and beans, or even bread and peanut butter.

There are tons of functions and benefits from consuming protein (hence why I will never think protein is my enemy…in fact it’s probably my biggest ally). The primary function of protein is to build and repair body tissues. Protein is also an important component of hormones and enzymes that are essentail for the regulation of metabolism and digestion. It also helps maintain fluid and electrolyte balances in the body and thus helps preven retention of body fluids. And as you may already know, proteins provide energy if and when the supply of carbohydrates and fats in the diet is insufficient.

Let’s move on to digestion. Mechanical digestion begins in the mouth. Chemical digestion begins in the stomach. Hydrochloric acid prepares the stomach so that pepsin can begin reducing proteins to polypeptides. After the polypeptides reach the small intestine, pancreatic enzymes continue chemical digestion. Intestinal peptidases finally reduce the proteins to amino acids. After digestion, the amino acids are carried by the blood to all body tissues. When amino acids are broken down, the group containing nitrogen is stripped off. This is called deamination. Deamination produces ammonia (highly toxic)which is released into the bloodstream. The liver picks up the ammonia, converts it to urea, and returns it to the bloodstream for the kidneys to filter out and excrete. The remaining parts are used for energy or are converted to CHO or fat and stored as glycogen or fatty tissue.

Now let’s move back to what I said in my first statement. Protein is not bad for you. Too much, however, I believe is hard on your kidneys. You are right when you say that properly working kidneys should have no problem with protein. It’s not necessarily the protein I’m worried about. It’s the waste product of protein metabolism that I’m concerned with because if you’re consuming large amounts of protein your body is making large amounts of urea (which is also very toxic) making your kidneys (and your liver) work over time. However, I also stated that for this very reason, it is probably why it is suggested that you drink lots of water so you can continually flush your kidneys. So you see, vroom and good professor, I’m not knocking protein. In fact, I believe I am it’s number one fan. However, I believe that there are people out there who are consuming not only large amounts of protein but also large amounts of CHO and fats at the same time and that’s not good for your body. I won’t go into dietary requirements because they try to make it sound so easy. I don’t believe it is because I understand each person is different and dietary requirements will probably never be the same for two people although people try to make it sound that way. They say the average is 1 gram of protein per kg of body weight. Obviously if you’re building mass you’re going to consume more. Healthy kidney’s should have no problem getting rid of increased amounts of urea as long as you’re drinking plenty of water. But if you are not drinking enough water, you will become dehydrated. This makes your body retain fluid which makes for increased urea in the body and that’s not a good thing.

Vroom and Professor, I probably should’ve gone on to say that last part about drinking water in my earlier post and I neglected to. My mistake. I apologize.

120

[quote]EdensAngel wrote:
I’m not sure, but after I read your posts several times through, I think you may be confused about my beliefs on protein. Do you think that I feel protein is bad in general? [/quote]

No, I don’t. You were very clear in your previous post that you thought “large amounts of protein” was stressful to the kidneys. I am not sure why you decided to take that and go into what I learned my first year as a biology major. Thanks for the review though.

[quote]
On the contrary boys,…lots of stuff…I’ll give you a run down of what I know of protein. …more stuff…I’m sure you know where you can get your protein from but we’ll go over that just a little bit. …whew, even more stuff…Let’s move on to digestion…and finally, the point…Now let’s move back to what I said in my first statement. Protein is not bad for you. Too much, however, I believe is hard on your kidneys. [/quote]

Really?

I think that is a little simplistic and there are too many variables that come into play to even make that statement. If someone is in good shape, exercises, has a BALANCED DIET and isn’t one of these kids who think that protein is all their body needs, there is nothing wrong with protein in large amounts even with carbs and fats available.

The difference is in not being crazy enough to try to beat a record in how much protein one human can consume without any other nutrients. Water can kill you in excessive amounts yet no one goes around trying to do too much regulating as far as water intake for the average trainer. It needs to be put into context so that RUMORS can stop circulating. Why? Because all some kid will hear is, “protein is bad for your kidneys” which gets spread like wildfire.

Bottom line, protein is not bad for your kidneys and there is no proof that protein is bad for your kidneys, even in LARGE amounts.

Let me add though, that it is good to have someone on this board who is knowledgeable about what you wrote about. I may make fun of it, but I respect what you do. Peace.