Nutrition Myths

Nutrition
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[quote]vroom wrote:
Storey420,

I think there is a bit of a issue here though that you may have overlooked. If I am not mistaken, isn’t it the anti-milk lobby that is going against hundreds of years of convention and belief?

It is not up to the rest of society to prove to you that milk is good, it is up to those that are trying to change the way the word works to convince us that milk is bad – so that the world will change according to those beliefs.

So, my counterclaim is that the anti-milk crowd has done nothing that comes close to actually proving anything worthy of discussion. When that proof arrives, if it ever does, then I will be very happy to change my tune.[/quote]

Well here is where the debate gets specific. I don’t think milk is bad per se. Hundreds of years ago when it wasn’t processed the way it is now and when people were using it mostly to make fermented products like kefir, ghee, cheeses, etc. which are much better products. I’m mainly concerned with the commercial dairy, which like the farming industry has been bastardized with chemicals and un-natural processing.

I find it hard to follow the logic of someone who is lactose intolerant yet feels that milk is good for them! I know I know you get the lactose free stuff but the inherit argument is like an alcoholic arguing that beer is good but they just drink the nonalcoholic version. The reality is that for millions of people milk builds up excessive mucous, clogs up their skin, etc. This is an allergic response to the finished product. I’m all for fermented dairy products and at least trying to get minimally processed dairy free of antibiotics, etc. Thats all I’m saying.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:

No, I don’t. You were very clear in your previous post that you thought “large amounts of protein” was stressful to the kidneys. I am not sure why you decided to take that and go into what I learned my first year as a biology major. Thanks for the review though.[/quote]

You’re quite welcome.

[quote]On the contrary boys,…lots of stuff…I’ll give you a run down of what I know of protein. …more stuff…I’m sure you know where you can get your protein from but we’ll go over that just a little bit. …whew, even more stuff…Let’s move on to digestion…and finally, the point…Now let’s move back to what I said in my first statement. Protein is not bad for you. Too much, however, I believe is hard on your kidneys.

Really?[/quote]

What are you? A genius? Nope…you’re an all mighty doctor…and a smart a$$. But that’s okay. Better to be a smart a$$ than a dumb a$$ I always say. :wink: (I’m teasing professor…only teasin)

[quote]I think that is a little simplistic and there are too many variables that come into play to even make that statement. If someone is in good shape, exercises, has a BALANCED DIET and isn’t one of these kids who think that protein is all their body needs, there is nothing wrong with protein in large amounts even with carbs and fats available.

The difference is in not being crazy enough to try to beat a record in how much protein one human can consume without any other nutrients. Water can kill you in excessive amounts yet no one goes around trying to do too much regulating as far as water intake for the average trainer. It needs to be put into context so that RUMORS can stop circulating. Why? Because all some kid will hear is, “protein is bad for your kidneys” which gets spread like wildfire.

Bottom line, protein is not bad for your kidneys and there is no proof that protein is bad for your kidneys, even in LARGE amounts.[/quote]

How is it simplistic?

I never said it was bad for the kidneys. I said it was hard on your kidney’s but let me elaborate on this by saying I believe it’s when you’re not drinking water like you should that makes not the protein itself but the waste product of protein metabolism that makes it hard on your kidney’s. If you’re not drinking enough water, as I said before, your body becomes dehydrated and wants to hang on to all of it’s fluid, therefore decreasing the need to urinate and increasing your BUN level. If you’re dehydrated, and your BUN level is increased that usually means your kidney’s are not functioning appropriately.

Maybe this is where people get the idea that too much protein is bad for you. But in fact it might actually have to do with people being dehydrated from not drinking water. Please don’t take that to mean that I’m saying go out drink 6 gallons of water. I know you can drink too much water. I don’t know the exact term, but I usually just say water intoxication.

At least you’re not one of the doctor’s that talks down to your nurses. At least, I hope anyway.

By the way (off topic), I’m going back to school to become a doctor. Got any advice for a med school wanna be? lol

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Eden,

I saw that ProfX has already replied, so I’ll address my comment in a slightly different direction.

I too believe that people are consuming too many calories. I don’t think this means that food is bad. I think it means that people are ignorant and make foolish choices.

What you may want to address is portion sizes and the bodies ability to deal with those portion sizes based on the needs of individuals with various levels of fitness, fat free mass and metabolism.

Find me a study that concludes that a healthy individual can’t consume protein without suffering from ill effects. Bear in mind, as I mentioned to another, that making the body work in some way, as it was created to work, is not likely to qualify as an ill effect.

However, it is possible that chronic stress of various types, at a level beyond that of the ability of the body to recover, may indeed be bad for you. This again, is not the same as saying food “X” is bad for you.

Those of us in good health, as far as I can tell, have no need to worry about the inclusion of healthy foods, including milk, meat, nuts, fats, grains, fruits, vegetables, spices, treats or even moderate amounts of alcohol in a varied diet.

People with issues, such as a sedentary lifestyle, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, diabetes, kidney problems, food intolerances and so on, will have to be a bit more picky in their consumption patterns.

If you believe otherwise, please, show me the proof.

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That’s cool, but I’d call that one of my infamous “food issues”. :wink:

People with food issues or food intolerances may need to make consumption decisions based on those issues.

By saying a food isn’t “bad” I’m not saying that everyone in the world can consume it effectively.

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[quote]vroom wrote:
In fact, I believe I am it’s number one fan. However, I believe that there are people out there who are consuming not only large amounts of protein but also large amounts of CHO and fats at the same time and that’s not good for your body.

Eden,

I saw that ProfX has already replied, so I’ll address my comment in a slightly different direction.

I too believe that people are consuming too many calories. I don’t think this means that food is bad. I think it means that people are ignorant and make foolish choices.

What you may want to address is portion sizes and the bodies ability to deal with those portion sizes based on the needs of individuals with various levels of fitness, fat free mass and metabolism.

Find me a study that concludes that a healthy individual can’t consume protein without suffering from ill effects. Bear in mind, as I mentioned to another, that making the body work in some way, as it was created to work, is not likely to qualify as an ill effect.

However, it is possible that chronic stress of various types, at a level beyond that of the ability of the body to recover, may indeed be bad for you. This again, is not the same as saying food “X” is bad for you.

Those of us in good health, as far as I can tell, have no need to worry about the inclusion of healthy foods, including milk, meat, nuts, fats, grains, fruits, vegetables, spices, treats or even moderate amounts of alcohol in a varied diet.

People with issues, such as a sedentary lifestyle, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, diabetes, kidney problems, food intolerances and so on, will have to be a bit more picky in their consumption patterns.

If you believe otherwise, please, show me the proof.[/quote]

Nope vroom. Actually, I agree with you wholeheartedly. :slight_smile:

~Eden

126

topsirloin,

do you understand basic human physiology/biology and how studies and various medical journals/literature applies to it? it is quite apparent that your “knowledge” is limited to that found on t-mag and mercola.com. i would pay real life money to see you analyze any data wrt to milk and the human body.

mercola IS a quack, and is a raging joke amongst the academic community. he is literally torn to shreds by anybody with any ounce of respect amongst the medical or academic community. he does not know how to properly analyze research (when i was working on my masters his lack of ability to analyze was a topic of interest of mine), and he takes random bits of data and magically extraporlates them into huge things.

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Sure, that’s one way to shut down the argumentative machinery.

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[quote]EdensAngel wrote:

What are you? A genius? Nope…you’re an all mighty doctor…and a smart a$$. But that’s okay. Better to be a smart a$$ than a dumb a$$ I always say. :wink: (I’m teasing professor…only teasin)[/quote]

Actually, you’re right, I am a smart ass…but I don’t really think we disagree so much with this concept as we are the presentation of the information to those who don’t have a clue.

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[quote]vroom wrote:
Actually, I agree with you wholeheartedly. :slight_smile:

Sure, that’s one way to shut down the argumentative machinery.[/quote]

Anything to make you happy, “doll”. :wink:

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[quote]Professor X wrote:
EdensAngel wrote:

What are you? A genius? Nope…you’re an all mighty doctor…and a smart a$$. But that’s okay. Better to be a smart a$$ than a dumb a$$ I always say. :wink: (I’m teasing professor…only teasin)

Actually, you’re right, I am a smart ass…but I don’t really think we disagree so much with this concept as we are the presentation of the information to those who don’t have a clue.[/quote]

Agreed. lol :slight_smile: Maybe not so much that they don’t have a clue. Maybe they are just misinformed. At least I like to think so.

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[quote]john222 wrote:
topsirloin,

do you understand basic human physiology/biology and how studies and various medical journals/literature applies to it? it is quite apparent that your “knowledge” is limited to that found on t-mag and mercola.com. i would pay real life money to see you analyze any data wrt to milk and the human body.

mercola IS a quack, and is a raging joke amongst the academic community. he is literally torn to shreds by anybody with any ounce of respect amongst the medical or academic community. he does not know how to properly analyze research (when i was working on my masters his lack of ability to analyze was a topic of interest of mine), and he takes random bits of data and magically extraporlates them into huge things.[/quote]

John, this debate has mostly turned out to be “my opinion reigns supreme over your’s” and has lost most of it’s educational light, IMO. The only thing that seems worth taking away thus far, besides some of the myths I suppose, is that some of us like to punch each other’s lights out.

I do understand basic human physiology, but I’m not going to get into who’s more qualified that who. You stated your opinion, you think Mercola is a quack, and you are entitled to that opinion, even though many credible individuals outside of Mercola’s influence also agree on many of his teachings.

A lot of his info is along the lines of Dr. Weston Price’s. Therefore, relating the former to the latter, I would have to say you look down your Nobel Prize winning nose on the Weston Price Foundation as well? Mercola may push traditional boundaries/extrapolate to some extent, but then again any good scientist does that when they are searching for answers.

However, Dr. Price is an EXTREMELY accomplished “scientist” who regularly studied subjects and conditions in-situ. He has some phenomenal results from his work, both anecdotal/empirical and study derived. Just because their stances don’t mix with today’s modern/commercial paradigms they lose their credibility?!

Were you taught by the academia that advised or sat on the USDA board that said 6-11 servings of grains is healthy??? I would be ashamed if that was the case. But, at least you have some grasp of physiology that allows you to now seek the truth.

I can see your education is a bit more traditional. You may wish not to look into Paleoenthic/holistic/organic nutrition as deeply as these non-traditional institutions do. But, none the less, I think the “quack” label is highly inappropriate. After all, I have seen Mercola and Price interview/consult with dozens of physicians and PhD’s… you are telling me all of these well educated authors do not understand basic, if not, advanced human physiology??? I would hope not.

Good day,

TS

132

[quote]storey420 wrote:
There you go J23T–excellent post. Basically the same as the professor. You guys are both lactose intolerant but feel that milk is a good addition to your nutritional program. Nuff said. See no need for name calling( as I resorted to) to get your point across. You are both right.
Milk is better in my opinion for you than beer but I’ll take a cold one over milk any day–my choice.

Most of the actual supporting documentation that a pro-milk person can provide is by a site sponsored by the dairy lobby. Your anecdotal feelings on milk are fine with me. I have chosen to research both sides and don’t feel like the positives outweigh the negatives. I choose to use a fermented dairy–kefir. As I believe there are only positives for that.

Again though had you just posted something staright forward and lucid like this post, I would not have “attacked” you directly. I just thought the pussy comments were childish.[/quote]

You are correct it was childish.

To each his or her own.

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[quote]storey420 wrote:
vroom wrote:
Storey420,

I find it hard to follow the logic of someone who is lactose intolerant yet feels that milk is good for them! I know I know you get the lactose free stuff but the inherit argument is like an alcoholic arguing that beer is good but they just drink the nonalcoholic version. The reality is that for millions of people milk builds up excessive mucous, clogs up their skin, etc. This is an allergic response to the finished product. I’m all for fermented dairy products and at least trying to get minimally processed dairy free of antibiotics, etc. Thats all I’m saying. [/quote]

I haven’t found any problems with drinking milk myself in terms of mucus etc. so it must be based on indivdual sensitivity to milk.

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Just to clarify, are you anti-milk people anti yogurt and kefir too? I am NOT a big milk drinker but I do not really lump these in the same category.

135

[quote]blam wrote:
Just to clarify, are you anti-milk people anti yogurt and kefir too? I am NOT a big milk drinker but I do not really lump these in the same category.[/quote]

Hopefully I’ve made my stance on this clear

136

[quote]j23t wrote:
storey420 wrote:
vroom wrote:
Storey420,

I find it hard to follow the logic of someone who is lactose intolerant yet feels that milk is good for them! I know I know you get the lactose free stuff but the inherit argument is like an alcoholic arguing that beer is good but they just drink the nonalcoholic version. The reality is that for millions of people milk builds up excessive mucous, clogs up their skin, etc. This is an allergic response to the finished product. I’m all for fermented dairy products and at least trying to get minimally processed dairy free of antibiotics, etc. Thats all I’m saying.

I haven’t found any problems with drinking milk myself in terms of mucus etc. so it must be based on indivdual sensitivity to milk.
[/quote]

Absolutely

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Thanks Zeb!!!