[quote]HouseOfAtlas wrote:
If someone is lactose intolerant, does that mean if they have a 16oz. glass of milk, would they go sh1t themselves silly? [/quote]
Shit, I basically have to eat Cold Stone’s Sweet Cream ice cream over the toilet!
BTW if anybody is lastose intolerant, stay VERY far away from lactol :-X VERY far away.
[quote]PGA200X wrote:
You consider that milk? HAHA![/quote]
You consider your posts in this thread logic? ahahahahaha.
Using your same logic, we weren’t born with wings…so humans shouldn’t fly. We also shouldn’t eat cellulose (plant carbohydrates that we can not digest which form their cell walls)…which pretty much means anyone eating vegetables is going to die. I can’t run 130mph either…so I should trade in my bike. Hell, look, I’m typing a conversation to someone half way across the country and since I am not omnipotent, I shouldn’t be doing that either.
Yes, lactose free milk is milk.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
PGA200X wrote:
You consider that milk? HAHA!
You consider your posts in this thread logic? ahahahahaha.
Using your same logic, we weren’t born with wings…so humans shouldn’t fly. We also shouldn’t eat cellulose (plant carbohydrates that we can not digest which form their cell walls)…which pretty much means anyone eating vegetables is going to die. I can’t run 130mph either…so I should trade in my bike. Hell, look, I’m typing a conversation to someone half way across the country and since I am not omnipotent, I shouldn’t be doing that either.
Yes, lactose free milk is milk. [/quote]
Lactose free milk isnt milk. Its a dairy beverage. Just because its semi-opaque and white…ahem, doesn’t mean its milk.
Keep putting your spin on things though, it makes for great entertainment…
[quote]Professor X wrote:
PGA200X wrote:
You consider that milk? HAHA!
You consider your posts in this thread logic? ahahahahaha.
Using your same logic, we weren’t born with wings…so humans shouldn’t fly. We also shouldn’t eat cellulose (plant carbohydrates that we can not digest which form their cell walls)…which pretty much means anyone eating vegetables is going to die. I can’t run 130mph either…so I should trade in my bike. Hell, look, I’m typing a conversation to someone half way across the country and since I am not omnipotent, I shouldn’t be doing that either.
Yes, lactose free milk is milk. [/quote]
While very interesting, I think we are getting somewhat out of context. Let’s get back to basics: the human species got to where we are at now on a diet dominated by mostly raw vegetation, nuts, seeds, berries, fishes, and lean meats (both raw and cooked).
For the most part the homosapien diet was mostly absent of most grains and dairy… not to mention ZERO processed foods! This is over several million years or longer. Just look at modern medicine vs. disease rates. Despite PHENOMENAL advances in medicine, the disease rate in the West continues to climb!! Stress is part of it, but I believe the biggest part is that we are eating too many of the wrong foods.
The latter point I see DAILY, as I coach clients off their heavy reliance on grains and dairy. They are losing fat, gaining LBM, feeling great, and all while being extremely busy juggling family and careers. I can’t totally lower their cortisol levels, but I think I’m making a huge impact on the quality of their lives. I’m sure someone will make the case of milk and grains being a staple of their childhood and having no ill effects. While that may be true, the West as a whole is only better off because of modern medicine, inspite of modern foods.
Vroom, you can sure make a case for modernized/Westernized foods based on the short couple thousand years humans have been consuming milk and grains (based mostly on convenience and mass production of a P+C+F food). But, most foods outside that original list, our biochemistry will not always agree with.
Prof-X, You don’t see something wrong with consuming a food that for one, your body doesn’t have the capacity to digest, and two, is obviously then highly processed?
TS
Guys, you haven’t done a single thing to show that commonly available and consumed foods are bad (though anything when overconsumed may in fact be harmful).
Living a sedentary life, eating nothing but carbohydrates all day long, eating shit from McDonalds instead of food, smoking and drinking, breathing in car exhaust fumes all day, these are things that are probably bad for you.
For heaven sakes, if substances given to cows make it into the milk, and these substances are truly bad, then lets not inject it into the cows. It isn’t like milk itself is naturally bad – you can’t claim it is because of things like this.
Also, with respect to dietary changes, humans live off of whatever they can find. Using correlative studies to attempt to show various changes in consumption are “bad” are inherently flawed – and that is all you really have.
Hell, we are all going to die of something. Whether or not anything we are doing is bad for us. Our life spans have been increasing dramatically over the ages, it is pretty hard to say we are doing everything wrong because our cause of death is shifting while our eating habits are shifting while our life spans are getting longer.
There is too much confounding information to draw the conclusions you are trying to support.
Perhaps your conclusions could simply be that overconsumption of calories is bad. Or perhaps that consumption of foods you can’t tolerate is bad. Or perhaps that overconsumption of particular foods is bad. Or that chronic hyperinsulinemia due to poor food choices is bad.
None of these things make any particular food bad.
You have zero evidence, but lots of claims based on nice sounding things such as “no other animal does this”. That doesn’t prove jack squat. However, it sure does sound important – even if it is meaningless.
To be clear, nobody is suggesting that a food that isn’t “bad” for you should be consumed by everyone. Nobody is suggesting that there are not chunks of the population who cannot digest or tolerate certain foods. Nobody is suggesting anything to contradict the fact that eating too much of any one food may be bad for you.
None of these things have anything to do with a food being bad for you.
Damn, I didn’t know I was opening up such a can of worms with the concept of nutrition myths.
The best way to speculate on theories is using reason. Every mammal drinks milk when it is an infant. Milk helps its development. Milk is good. Nature makes sure that when mammals get older they do not want or can not consume milk. Why? Nature is “smart” if mammals continued to consume milk there would be an imbalance of supply and demand and the species would die.
There is a curious species on this planet, they are called humans. We have enough intelligence and resources ex: domesticated animals that enables us to continue to consume milk. We have something other species don’t have if you haven’t noticed. Also we can overcome the biological barrier (intolerance) by making lactose free milk. We are in many ways above natures boundaries.
So in one sense you are correct we are not supposed to drink milk (according to nature), but together with that thought comes the fact that we are also not supposed to live as long as we do now. So what do you think is more “correct”? We have reasoning, use it.
[quote]TopSirloin wrote:
Prof-X, You don’t see something wrong with consuming a food that for one, your body doesn’t have the capacity to digest, and two, is obviously then highly processed?
TS[/quote]
Uh, what have you missed in this thread? Are you saying no humans can digest milk? Quit the bullshit. I have been drinking milk on a regular basis since high school. While I am lactose intolerant, I can still digest regular milk in smaller quantities than the usual 2 cups that I drink at a time in a meal replacement. Unless you grow and raise all of your own food, your notions are complete and utter bullshit. I exercise daily. While I can toss back more beef in one sitting than an average person, my diet is not completely screwed up.
Please, tell me why I need to stop drinking milk and why milk itself is now “bad”. You still haven’t done that. Processed food? You mean, like pasteurization? That is what “processed” means to you? Hell, do you even cook your own food or just eat it raw so as not to contaminate yourself with “the process”?
Excuse me for a second…my biceps just said they want a glass of milk. I do whatever I can for my babies.
It seems like half the nutrition threads turn into debates on milk on dairy. As for the topic at hand, here’s another myth…
A PWO meal heavy on simple carbs like dex and malto is bad when cutting and will stall fat loss.
I love you guys but… you’ve been tagged.
Start pickin’.
Nice try Vroom…but this has disintegrated and any newbie coming here may be more confused than EVER about the milk thing.
Not your fault, dude.
Hey, has anyone started a “Supplement for Beginners” thread?
Here is one (because I saw some entries for supplements on this thread.):
Say “No” to NO2
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=556124
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=556939
TB
Chlorine doesn’t have any ill effects on the body according to the ATSDR (Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry) for ingestion, inhalation is another matter. I mentioned the aspartame thing b/c there IS debate on whether it is harmful or not, and you only suggested ingesting about a gram, not a large amount. I just didn’t want the aspartame ‘myth’ to continue - not saying it’s good or bad, just that it is debated.
Note: I didn’t just go do research on chlorine! : ) I was looking at the elemental components of coffee and checking for toxicity for a research project. Interesting find: assuming 100% of the copper in the beans to the liquid drink (BIG leap) it takes only 5 c/day to reach the MRL (mininum risk level) for copper! The initial effects are all gastrointestinal - similar to what chronic coffee drinkers complain about. Cool eh? Probably warrants more investigation, but it’s not my field… : )
[quote]Trailblazer wrote:
Nice try Vroom…but this has disintegrated and any newbie coming here may be more confused than EVER about the milk thing.[/quote]
I truly don’t see how they could be confused. Any claims being made against milk seem flat and unsubstantiated. All we are getting is cries against “processed” foods and how some people being lactose intolerant somehow means humans aren’t supposed to drink milk. It is all bullshit. I’ll just end this with, I am very glad I never fell for any of this. Milk has helped me gain quite a bit of size and lactose intolerance isn’t exactly that big of an issue today.
Just tought I’d check Dr. Mercola that was mentionned above…
Interestingly, but quite unsurprisingly, the good Doctor appears on the Canadian Quackery Watch, as well as the Quack Files and other sites.
Again people, when you see World-Renowned Whoever writing monthly or weekly newsletters or being mentionned in this way in anything arguing to be of a scientific nature is bull.
Since we are on the milk issue, why not jump to the vaccination pandemic that’s raging across the world even threatning the nice people of the world that still live in the peaceful bliss of underdevelopment and still live to be 900 years old like it says in the big book, because Big Brother is out to get us, every single one of us…
Of a less sarcastic nature, I am still dumbfounded by the replies that try to conteract the naive or paranoiac posts that are sprounting everywhere with logic and some scientific foundations.
I really don’t know how you guys do it, pounding away at various ill-informed morons day after day. I know, I know, Stupidity irritates…but I say, let morons be morons.
I still enjoy reading your efforts, though.
AlexH
I’ve heard that eating pussy makes you ripped, is this true?
[quote]PGA200X wrote:
Matthew9v9 wrote:
PGA200X wrote:
Do animals cook their meat? We do.
Cats are not supposed to drink milk. That was a myth created by the movie/entertainment industry. Ask any vet, cats and milk=NO.[/quote]
I didn’t say they SHOULD. You said no other animal DOES. Cats can and WILL.
What about cooking their food? Address that (haven’t made it through the thread in case you did).
BOOM!
(geez another head explosion, man, I gotta get that checked!)
[quote]mindeffer01 wrote:
BOOM!
(geez another head explosion, man, I gotta get that checked!)
[/quote]
At least it wasn’t spontaneous combustion…man, now THAT is a fucked up way to see someone die. you’re chilling…hanging with some bros, then all of a sudden POOF!..one of them goes crispy critter on ya…
DAMN, that would be messed up.
TB
Okay fellas - I’m not going to start making asinine and destructive comments (ahem… prof X and Dandalex). I thought we were trying to stay open minded and learn from two sides of a debate?! After all, I can find as many resources against grains and dairy and you all could find to support it. Resources beyond Dr. Mercola and Dr. Weston Price, which by the way DO INDEED back up most of their info with technical science, from other MD’s, PhD’s, and accomplished authors. Not just tree-hugging new-age hippies. Try actually taking more than just a few minutes to speed read their sites. Their references are concrete, some anecdotal sure, but many makes sense.
Dr. Mercola a quack huh… so, you trust everything your government feeds you huh?! Then you better put some soy milk on your Sugar Smacks, after all, it’s a part of a “complete breakfast”!!
I think you guys are missing the weight room for the mirrors. Do you not understand big-business and lobbying??? Of course the Canadian and American gov’s stand up against the slander of grains and dairy because it’s BIG BUSINESS!!! They make up a giant portion of their GDP! Yet, you guys have no problem knocking soy, do you?! Another BIG BIZ crop that did an excellent job lobbying their keisters off to get soy into our diets. And, they did a great job! Yet, we are finding that soy is absolute crap.
Well, some of us feel the same about grains and dairy dominating our diet as we do about soy. You all are just choosing to look they other way on this one, because it may not be quite as obvious nor pandemic. I have clients that come to me in good health, yet consume 20, 30, even 40 grams of soy per day!! Yet, I still coach them off of it where ever possible. It’s the same argument for grains and dairy, just more gray areas.
As far as milk being milk, that is WAY the heck off! Any mammal that produces milk for their young has a completely different balance of nutrients for that species. There might be some similarities, such as lactose being in both bovine and human milk. But, the antibodies, enzymes, fats and proteins, etc, etc, are quite different.
All I ask is for newbies (if they are still keeping up), and everyone for that matter, to keep an open mind and research this on your own. Myself and others with a similar view, are merely bringing up food for thought.
Top-MI-Sirloin
Wow, that is a great question. I’d suggest we all go do our own exhaustive research on this to figure this one out.
–
Okay, back to the topic at hand. I know this thread has gone down the path of wackiness, but keep them coming, at some point, if we get enough, I’ll write the readers digest condensed version…
What other myths out there are annoying, persistent and that we get tired of answering over and over again?
Once they get in here… and get countered… and get rewritten, we’ll just be able to post a damned link instead of having to relive this over and over again!
[quote]TopSirloin wrote:
While very interesting, I think we are getting somewhat out of context. Let’s get back to basics: the human species got to where we are at now on a diet dominated by mostly raw vegetation, nuts, seeds, berries, fishes, and lean meats (both raw and cooked).
TS[/quote]
Hello folks, my second posting. Let me take this even further away from the original topic.
If we still ate only what our hunting/gathering forefathers ate, we wouldn’t now be posting on T-Nation, we would be too busy hunting and gathering food. Which wouldn’t be that bad, when I think about it. Nevertheless, this must not prevent us from being picky and critical about what we eat. If we find that the diet of our hunting/gathering forefathers was the best for us let’s mimic it the best we can. “Natural” is somewhat misleading as a goal, let us strive for “healthy” instead.